HP Forum Archive 14

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Calculator Crime Report Message #1 Posted by Norris on 28 Feb 2004, 1:35 p.m. An Engineer-in-Training candidate in California has been convicted for using an illegal calculator on the EIT exam. He was sentenced to 90 days in prison, 360 hours of community service, and 3 years of informal probation. In this case, the calculator was apparently modified to act as a handheld scanner. Actual EIT exam problems were found on his home computer. No idea what model calculator was used. Most likely a largish one. http://www.dca.ca.gov/pels/e_examsubversion.htm http://www.nspe.org/etweb/10204examsecurity.asp

Re: Calculator Crime Report Message #2 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 28 Feb 2004, 7:16 p.m., in response to message #1 by Norris a) Let's hope it was not a modified HP33s, so to avoid a WHOA(witch hunt on arrival)! b) The numeric values of the terms are very engineering-ish. I wonder if he will also have to pay a U$S 314.16- fine. c) Could someone be able to reconstruct the problems just from (human) memory and a LASTARG stack? d) Apart from the punishment, if he (by himself) really turned a calculator into a scanner, he may deserve the certification, based on technical achievement.

Re: Calculator Crime Report Message #3 Posted by Karl Schneider on 29 Feb 2004, 2:33 a.m., in response to message #1 by Norris Norris -- The first of the two links you provided was dead when I tried it. I can say that the incident was previously reported in the NCEES newsletter for December 2003: http://www.ncees.org/licensure/licensure_exchange/le_2003_12.pdf -- Karl S.

Re: Calculator Crime Report Message #4 Posted by J.C. Randerson on 29 Feb 2004, 10:50 a.m., in response to message #1 by Norris So this is the SOB who created all the problems. And what do you know, it was some f****** wog, probably not even a US citizen. J.C. Randerson

Re: Calculator Crime Report Message #5 Posted by Norris on 29 Feb 2004, 1:03 p.m., in response to message #1 by Norris The California Board for Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors (PELS) was responsible for the discovery and prosecution of this incident. But ironically, PELS took it in stride -- they continue to have a very reasonable calculator policy. It's the National Council of Examineers for Engineering and Surveying (NCEES) that is freaking out. There are actually two kinds of professional engineering exams: NCEES and state-specific. The basic exams in major disciplines are developed by NCEES, and are used nationwide. However, individual states can supplement the national NCEES exams with state-specific exams, if they deem it necessary. In California, for example, PELS has developed state-specific exams for traffic, geotechnical, and structural engineers. Civil engineers have to pass the basic NCEES Civil exam, but they also have to pass two supplemental state-specific exams, on surveying and seismic design. PELS has announced that they will only enforce the NCEES calculator policy on NCEES exams. For state-specific exams, any non-QWERTY calculator is acceptable, in accordance with historic practice. So civil PE candidates in California *cannot* use HP48s for the NCEES civil exam, but they *can* still use HP48s for the state-specific civil exams. The obvious interpretation is that PELS regards the NCEES calculator policy as unwarranted (although PELS has not made any public statements to that effect). PELS administers some 5,000 exams every 6 months, and reportedly deals with an average of 20 suspected cheaters during every exam cycle. PELS probably has a more realistic understanding of how cheating occurs than NCEES does -- NCEES just develops the exams, they don't administer them. That may be why PELS has the more reasonable calculator policy.

Re: Calculator Crime Report Message #6 Posted by db(martinez,california) on 29 Feb 2004, 6:10 p.m., in response to message #5 by Norris Norris; I just heard that the 2nd half of the LS exam is going to be the same way. Persons sitting for that test can also use the 48 series. It doesn't effect me but it is nice to hear that the California State Board understands people will be using that tool in real life so they may as well use it on the exam. It makes sense too. The state gets half of the 8 hours (one quarter of the 16 hour total) and they can test applicants on judgement and application of the law and history, or they can make it another four hour math test. Pat them on the back.

Re: Calculator Crime Report Message #7 Posted by Norris on 29 Feb 2004, 8:20 p.m., in response to message #6 by db(martinez,california) I checked the PELS website, and you are correct. PELS is enforcing the NCEES calculator policy on the NCEES portion of the Professional Land Surveyor exam -- but they are *not* enforcing it on the state-specific part. So HP48s and 49s can still be used on part of the California PLS exam. This is consistent with the way that PELS is handling the California Professional Engineer exams. I haven't seen any statements from NCEES about the PELS calculator policy. I would suspect that NCEES is not too happy about it. NCEES is trying to convince the engineering and surveying communities that severe calculator restrictions are necessary to protect exam security. It's obvious that many engineers and surveyors are skeptical. Furthermore, it appears that PELS doesn't believe it either, since they continue to welcome HP48s and 49s where it is possible to do so. California PELS must easily be the single biggest client for NCEES. If anyone could influence NCEES to reverse their policy, it would be PELS. I wish them the best of luck.

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