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ijabbott · 09-08-2018, 02:26 AM

(09-07-2018 09:10 PM)CyberAngel Wrote:
(09-07-2018 08:01 PM)Guenter Schink Wrote: Small correction. The French system is 230V nominal. It used to be 220V some decades ago.

Günter
UK was 240V, rest of the EU 220V => 230V everywhere in the EU
Right?

UK officially agreed to 230V nominal for European harmonization in 1993, but in reality stuck at 240V nominal and changed the declared tolerances from 240V +/- 6% to 230V +10%/-6%.

grsbanks · 09-12-2018, 09:57 AM

Coming back to the original topic here, the G2 Prime, one thing that's only just struck me is how quickly the thing boots up.

The G1 shows the HP logo for a bit and gives you control about 1.5s after switching on. The G2 does not (have time to) display the HP logo and you can start using it about 0.5s after switching on.

JDW · 09-12-2018, 10:12 AM

Can the G1 be hacked to NOT display the HP Logo, so as to obtain a faster boot?

grsbanks · 09-12-2018, 10:19 AM

(09-12-2018 10:12 AM)JDW Wrote: Can the G1 be hacked to NOT display the HP Logo, so as to obtain a faster boot?

I don't think HP would display the HP logo just for the hell of it. My best guess is that the Prime is doing _something_ during that time and the logo is displayed so that the calculator isn't left there with a blank screen.

ekeppel · 09-12-2018, 11:02 AM

(09-12-2018 09:57 AM)grsbanks Wrote: Coming back to the original topic here, the G2 Prime, one thing that's only just struck me is how quickly the thing boots up.

The G1 shows the HP logo for a bit and gives you control about 1.5s after switching on. The G2 does not (have time to) display the HP logo and you can start using it about 0.5s after switching on.

On my Rev C Prime, I can begin entering numbers almost immediately after hitting the 'On' button. Once the calculator is fully booted (~1.5 seconds) those numbers will be there ready and waiting on the screen for me. In fact, I can even perform operations on the numbers that I enter 'in the blind' while booting, and see a result waiting for me once bootup is complete. As a test, I hit ON and immediately keyed in 12, ENTER, 3, - during bootup. When the calc finished booting, the answer was already there waiting. :-)

I tried to measure the time between hitting ON and the recognition of key inputs but it's too fast for me to get an accurate measurement. If I had to guess, I'd say it's on the order of 100 milliseconds or less.

Even though the G1 is ready to go only ~100ms after turn on, it doesn't appear *to the user* that it's ready to receive input, so I'm glad to see that the G2 seems to eliminate that perception. It's a small thing, but no doubt makes the G2 feel nearly 'instant on' by comparison.

I don't have a G2 yet, but would like to get one once I find a reliable seller here in the USA who knows which version they are selling. Any recommendations?

Eric

grsbanks · 09-12-2018, 11:10 AM

I stand corrected! So it does look like the logo is being displayed purely for cosmetic reasons.

(09-12-2018 11:02 AM)ekeppel Wrote: I don't have a G2 yet, but would like to get one once I find a reliable seller here in the USA who knows which version they are selling. Any recommendations?

The only place I'm aware of that explicitly states that it's the G2 model that they're selling is in the Netherlands. Another that will make sure that you get the G2 if you call them and ask them for that is here in the UK. As far as I know, anywhere else is just pot luck.

JDW · 09-12-2018, 02:19 PM

Tim Wessman,

Please tell us how to hack our Ver. C Primes to eliminate the HP logo and boot in 0.5 seconds. Why should G2 users have all the fun?

Albert Chan · 09-12-2018, 02:26 PM

(09-12-2018 11:10 AM)grsbanks Wrote: I stand corrected! So it does look like the logo is being displayed purely for cosmetic reasons.

Uh, the keystroke(s) might be buffered ... I think your original hunch is correct.

grsbanks · 09-12-2018, 02:27 PM

Hmm... I might have jumped to the wrong conclusion earlier.

Another possibility is that the Rev. C (and earlier) Prime _IS_ doing something else while the HP logo is shown. Any keyboard input that happens during this time causes a hardware interrupt and the input is buffered until such a time that it can be processed by the calculator.

StephenG1CMZ · (This post was last modified: 09-12-2018 03:44 PM by StephenG1CMZ.)

(09-12-2018 02:19 PM)JDW Wrote: Tim Wessman,

Please tell us how to hack our Ver. C Primes to eliminate the HP logo and boot in 0.5 seconds. Why should G2 users have all the fun?

No, I don't mind a couple of seconds...
Better, add a Logo to the G2 version, so a quick press of ON whilst still in the plastic case shouts "G2" at you, rather than leaving you worrying it might be the "NW" version until you can turn it over.

Does the G2 really have no logo, or does it appear and disappear too quickly to be seen?

Tim Wessman · (This post was last modified: 09-12-2018 04:37 PM by Tim Wessman.)

Basically, G1 has an OS that takes much longer to boot, we (the prime application) do not have any control until it is fully booted. There are keyboard drivers, memory drivers, flash drivers, etc that all need initialization time in the OS. Then it begins loading the full application into RAM. This takes a while and memory access is slow.

The logo is placed immediately during initialization of the screen driver. Then power is turned on to the screen. Then all the other stuff happens and moves along. Only when the loading is totally done does the application "start". At that point the keys the key driver loaded get placed into the application.

This is from a full "boot". Normal power off and on still has the OS doing some things - again there is no control till the OS hands it over. Luckily, that time can be much lower since it doesn't have to load the application from memory.

G2 has a much smaller and simpler OS. The full boot time is much lower then the G1 initialization time. In fact, I think full boot is faster then "sleep wake up" on G1. Sleep wake up is fast to the point that it just waits till everything is good to go, and then turns on the screen.

If you think Prime in any variant is slow, you've never tried to turn on an nSpire.... takes a LOOOOONG time. I think I had one almost 2 minutes on me once. Changing languages actually takes like a minute to "load".

toml_12953 · 09-12-2018, 04:53 PM

(09-12-2018 04:32 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote: If you think Prime in any variant is slow, you've never tried to turn on an nSpire.... takes a LOOOOONG time. I think I had one almost 2 minutes on me once. Changing languages actually takes like a minute to "load".

Have you ever turned on a 50g with a 2GB SD card in it? Go make a sandwich and a have a beer (or Jolt Cola if you're a hardcore nerd!) while you're waiting.

ijabbott · 09-12-2018, 05:36 PM

(09-12-2018 04:53 PM)toml_12953 Wrote: Have you ever turned on a 50g with a 2GB SD card in it? Go make a sandwich and a have a beer (or Jolt Cola if you're a hardcore nerd!) while you're waiting.

Formatted as FAT16 or FAT32? It boots quicker with FAT16!

CyberAngel · 09-12-2018, 06:33 PM

(09-12-2018 05:36 PM)ijabbott Wrote:
(09-12-2018 04:53 PM)toml_12953 Wrote: Have you ever turned on a 50g with a 2GB SD card in it? Go make a sandwich and a have a beer (or Jolt Cola if you're a hardcore nerd!) while you're waiting.

Formatted as FAT16 or FAT32? It boots quicker with FAT16!

Also: keep the root small = the folders inside one folder on root
because the OS reads the SD root directory on boot - if I remember anything at all...

John Keith · 09-12-2018, 08:32 PM

(09-12-2018 04:53 PM)toml_12953 Wrote: Have you ever turned on a 50g with a 2GB SD card in it? Go make a sandwich and a have a beer (or Jolt Cola if you're a hardcore nerd!) while you're waiting.

Hmm, one of mine has a 2GB SD card and it turns on in less than a second.

JDW · 09-12-2018, 09:21 PM

Tim, thank you for the detailed explanation. But there’s one thing you did not detail for us. Why is the OS smaller on the G2 and larger on the G1?

CyberAngel · 09-12-2018, 09:46 PM

(09-12-2018 09:21 PM)JDW Wrote: Tim, thank you for the detailed explanation. But there’s one thing you did not detail for us. Why is the OS smaller on the G2 and larger on the G1?

I WANT TO GUESS, I WANT TO GUESS:
The company which provides the OS
has made a new version for the new hardware.
The new version is smaller.
If I remember correctly
it was also missing some needed key components like Malloc,
which Cyrille had to code.
So, it's a stripped down version, but this time that's good!

JDW · 09-12-2018, 11:58 PM

If a stripped down OS would also work fine on the G1 Prime, logic dictates that the G2 OS should be ported to the G1 Prime so that HP does not need to maintain 2 separate code bases.

Tim Wessman · 09-13-2018, 02:02 AM

Embedded systems aren't like full "normal" computers. You generally have the choice of 1 or maybe 2 OS to put on the chip. Each one is customized for that specific chip and hardware and there is little to no overlap provided by the chip manufacturer. So when you move to a new chip, there is a 6-12 month time taken getting the hardware and OS ready (which is surprisingly consistent no matter how large or big the company is).

It isn't quite as strict as it used to be, but that is still a general rule. Is it worth time to spend 6-8 months moving the old hardware to a new OS? Or doing something like hitting the big list of user requested features or fixes?

JDW · 09-13-2018, 02:11 AM

Tim, the answer to your question depends on how many firmware updates you may wish to offer in the future. If indeed you continue to support the G1, and I sincerely hope that HP does, the fact remains that HP would still need to offer support for 2 different code bases, due to the fact you did not make time to revamp the OS for the G1. Revamping the OS for the G1 would take time right now, but it would simplify future firmware updates, would it not? (And give G1 users the side benefit of a faster boot time too!)