CAS on Casio vs HP?

[jebem]

I have an Casio AFX 2.0 Plus calculator that includes some sort of CAS.
Now, my HP-Prime has got CAS based on XCAS.

However, I can't find details on CAS what platform Casio is using.
Does anyone have information on this matter?

[cutterjohn]

(05-10-2014 05:03 PM)jebem Wrote:  I have an Casio AFX 2.0 Plus calculator that includes some sort of CAS.
Now, my HP-Prime has got CAS based on XCAS.

However, I can't find details on CAS what platform Casio is using.
Does anyone have information on this matter?

IIRC it's their own. The fx-CPs (classpads) took the FX2's CAS to a more advanced level, so you MIGHT be better off searching for info on the classpad's and possibly finding some links back to the fx2.

I do OWN an fx-cp400, but I don't care for it very much as it's VERY slow, and has limited resources ATM. I purchased it around the same time as the Prime, so I haven't used it all that much beyond MUCH preferring the Prime.

Beyond that Casio's pretty closed. They've only released an SDK for a few of their calcs, and firmware updates are slow to come or IOW they're pretty much purely focused on the educational market seemingly, and try to lock everything down on most of their offerings similar to the nspire(although there's a window on the CX right now allowing ndless operation(execution of native code) under the current firmware. (I would've purchased one of those instead of the casio but at the time the casio seemed like it might end up more hackable as the fx-cg10/20 did both end up with some community C support... while the CX at the time was shipping with an unhackable firmware...)

[eried]

Certainly is a CASIO exclusive solution. A quite limited one.

Curious thing is that Algebra FX2.0 runs something like DOS-exes, every icon is and independent exe file. I struggled a lot in the FX2 due the lack of strings, so I remember using arrays with custom printing routines from the screen to handle "vars" with strings.

[jebem]

(05-10-2014 08:46 PM)cutterjohn Wrote:  IIRC it's their own. The fx-CPs (classpads) took the FX2's CAS to a more advanced level, so you MIGHT be better off searching for info on the classpad's and possibly finding some links back to the fx2.

Yap, apparently Casio had got Professor John Kenelly working with Casio R&D CAS team:
"Casio's CAS is based on the Casio's original algebra system and enhanced by our R & D team, Professor John Kenelly and other math instructors, adopting teachers' advice and suggestion."
https://edu.casio.com/products/graphic/afx20p/

And it seems that Professor John Kenelly was "a member of the design team for many of today's popular graphing calculators (HP-48GX, TI-83, Sharp 9300, and Casio FX 2.0)".
http://www.mindsetproject.org/index.php/...hn-kenelly-

Actually Casio Algebra FX-2.0 Plus has fair documentation, but I was wondering how Casio and HP CAS systems compares.
For instance, Casio Algebra FX 2.0 Plus Users Guide chapter 7 covers Casio CAS in some detail "(Computer Algebra System and Tutorial Modes)":
http://support.casio.com/en/manual/004/a...h07_EN.pdf

[jebem]

(05-10-2014 10:04 PM)eried Wrote:  Curious thing is that Algebra FX2.0 runs something like DOS-exes, every icon is and independent exe file. I struggled a lot in the FX2 due the lack of strings, so I remember using arrays with custom printing routines from the screen to handle "vars" with strings.

If the Wikipedia can be of any value, it is suggested there that "There are community written tools for accessing the ROM-DOS operating system thus allowing C and Pascal compilers to be used".
ROM-DOS was popular on embedded systems some years ago to run on Intel 80186 compatible processors, so this Casio AFX 2.0 Plus is of some interest to explore.
In fact the other day I was browsing around in the AFX features and I got myself into a DOS Prompt (something like C:>) and after a reset I couldn't duplicate the situation again...
I got mine just one year ago because it was such a low price that I couldn't resist, but I had no opportunity to explore it so far.

[HP67]

Eventually somebody (Hello, Eddie Shore?!) is going to have to do a comparo extravaganza with all the latest CAS models from HP, TI, Casio, etc.

[Dave Britten]

(05-11-2014 11:54 AM)jebem Wrote:  

(05-10-2014 10:04 PM)eried Wrote:  Curious thing is that Algebra FX2.0 runs something like DOS-exes, every icon is and independent exe file. I struggled a lot in the FX2 due the lack of strings, so I remember using arrays with custom printing routines from the screen to handle "vars" with strings.

If the Wikipedia can be of any value, it is suggested there that "There are community written tools for accessing the ROM-DOS operating system thus allowing C and Pascal compilers to be used".
ROM-DOS was popular on embedded systems some years ago to run on Intel 80186 compatible processors, so this Casio AFX 2.0 Plus is of some interest to explore.
In fact the other day I was browsing around in the AFX features and I got myself into a DOS Prompt (something like C:>) and after a reset I couldn't duplicate the situation again...
I got mine just one year ago because it was such a low price that I couldn't resist, but I had no opportunity to explore it so far.

Damn it, guys, you're going to make me hunt down more stuff I don't need from ebay.

[Eddie W. Shore]

(05-11-2014 12:01 PM)HP67 Wrote:  Eventually somebody (Hello, Eddie Shore?!) is going to have to do a comparo extravaganza with all the latest CAS models from HP, TI, Casio, etc.

That will be an extensive project - something to consider (HP Prime vs. TI nSpire CAS vs. ClassPad (?) )

[Eddie W. Shore]

(05-10-2014 10:04 PM)eried Wrote:  Certainly is a CASIO exclusive solution. A quite limited one.

Curious thing is that Algebra FX2.0 runs something like DOS-exes, every icon is and independent exe file. I struggled a lot in the FX2 due the lack of strings, so I remember using arrays with custom printing routines from the screen to handle "vars" with strings.

I have a Casio Algebra FX-2.0 and from memory I remember the CAS being basic (probably no where near the HP Prime?). I got a huge bargain on it from a clearance section at Staples years ago.

This thread has inspired to pull out my FX 2.0 Plus. I think all the CAS operations are limited to one mode, we can't create programs using CAS functions (not 100% sure).

Interestingly, the memory on the FX 2.0 is greater than today's calculators from the Casio line (144K vs. 64K for the Prizm).

[Dave Britten]

So I can't help but wondering... If the Algebra FX line runs on an NEC V30, and uses a ROM-based MS-DOS clone, how much work would it be to get the Casio firmware running on a plain DOS machine? Say, a 95LX or 200LX? You'd have to deal with some keyboard mapping concerns, obviously, but you'd have a lot of extra screen space to display a reference or something. If I did the slightest bit of low-level x86 work, I'd take a crack at it myself.

[jebem]

(05-11-2014 09:57 PM)Dave Britten Wrote:  So I can't help but wondering... If the Algebra FX line runs on an NEC V30, and uses a ROM-based MS-DOS clone, how much work would it be to get the Casio firmware running on a plain DOS machine? Say, a 95LX or 200LX? You'd have to deal with some keyboard mapping concerns, obviously, but you'd have a lot of extra screen space to display a reference or something. If I did the slightest bit of low-level x86 work, I'd take a crack at it myself.

I'm afraid it is too late for that, this model is over 10 years old now, and most of the published hacking information is gone... I find very little (and dated) details in the old forums... but I agree that would be a nice project!
I remember to use that NEC V30 40-pin DIP processor to replace and Intel cpu on one primitive PC in the 80's, what a boost in performance it gave!

I checking now the available information on the French Graph100/Graph100+ versions (which are identical to the AFXZ-2.0+) and even on the color CFX-9970, but no luck so far.
Apparently there was a great and large French community hacking this calculator, so most of the remaining information is written in French language.

[Dave Britten]

(05-12-2014 08:01 AM)jebem Wrote:  

(05-11-2014 09:57 PM)Dave Britten Wrote:  So I can't help but wondering... If the Algebra FX line runs on an NEC V30, and uses a ROM-based MS-DOS clone, how much work would it be to get the Casio firmware running on a plain DOS machine? Say, a 95LX or 200LX? You'd have to deal with some keyboard mapping concerns, obviously, but you'd have a lot of extra screen space to display a reference or something. If I did the slightest bit of low-level x86 work, I'd take a crack at it myself.

I'm afraid it is too late for that, this model is over 10 years old now, and most of the published hacking information is gone... I find very little (and dated) details in the old forums... but I agree that would be a nice project!
I remember to use that NEC V30 40-pin DIP processor to replace and Intel cpu on one primitive PC in the 80's, what a boost in performance it gave!

Yeah, it's probably a bit of a pipe dream, but it sure is tempting to think you'd just have to shim some display I/O and keyboard scan codes. It would be a lovely way to compensate for the lack of programmable scientific calculator in the 200LX. Why HP Calc included all the wonderful features of a 19bii and nothing of a humble 32sii I don't think I'll ever grasp. It's not that difficult to envision a 32sii sim with no 390-byte limit, and the ability to save/load program and equation memory to individual files, like you can with the existing solver and financial modes. Even just a 20s sim (maybe with added RPN mode) would have been a nice touch, but the keyboard would have required a few more secondary labels in any such case.

[jebem]

(05-11-2014 12:01 PM)HP67 Wrote:  Eventually somebody (Hello, Eddie Shore?!) is going to have to do a comparo extravaganza with all the latest CAS models from HP, TI, Casio, etc.

Well, we have a starting point with this CASIO AFX-2.0 PLUS review (Thanks, Eddie!)
http://edspi31415.blogspot.pt/2014/05/re...-plus.html