HP Classic upgrade kit - Multi Emulator (updated list of emulated models)

[albertofenini]

Hi Ian
do you know if someone from the Forum has ever done it ?
Or if the original layout are somehow available and not longer under copyright ?

[teenix]

(04-01-2019 03:58 PM)albertofenini Wrote:  Dear Harald,
it may seems a little O.T. but it was worth asking,
do you know of any company you may have met in the process of making this emulator
that could reproduce a logic board PCB ? Like the 65 one ?
Thanks for your reply
Alberto

Hi Alberto,

If anyone can send me a bare HP-65 PCB, I can probably design an original copy. A populated PCB is hard to copy because the parts cover up the traces.

cheers

Tony

[ijabbott]

(04-01-2019 10:05 PM)albertofenini Wrote:  Hi Ian
do you know if someone from the Forum has ever done it ?
Or if the original layout are somehow available and not longer under copyright ?

I guess the PCB artwork is under copyright, but unless HP suddenly decide to go into the ancient calculator repair business, I can't imagine it being a problem, especially if it's for personal use.

[Paul Dale]

Given the time frame, it would need to be marked as being copyright...

Not that I'm an IP lawyer.


Pauli

[albertofenini]

(04-02-2019 08:06 AM)ijabbott Wrote:  

(04-01-2019 10:05 PM)albertofenini Wrote:  Hi Ian
do you know if someone from the Forum has ever done it ?
Or if the original layout are somehow available and not longer under copyright ?

I guess the PCB artwork is under copyright, but unless HP suddenly decide to go into the ancient calculator repair business, I can't imagine it being a problem, especially if it's for personal use.

However, copyright aside, how can be found the scheme for the middle layers without destroying
the actual PCB ?
There are at least two middle layers, one for the ground connection and one for other connections

[teenix]

(04-02-2019 09:18 AM)albertofenini Wrote:  

(04-02-2019 08:06 AM)ijabbott Wrote:  I guess the PCB artwork is under copyright, but unless HP suddenly decide to go into the ancient calculator repair business, I can't imagine it being a problem, especially if it's for personal use.

However, copyright aside, how can be found the scheme for the middle layers without destroying
the actual PCB ?
There are at least two middle layers, one for the ground connection and one for other connections

If the inner layers are obscure then perhaps there is no destructive way to see the circuit layout, except maybe x-ray.

cheers

Tony

[Harald]

One could always measure all the connections on a known good bare PCB and then design a new PCB that replicates the original one. It's perfectly doable but requires a lot of time.

I have thought about adapting the classic replacement PCB for the 65, but I am not sure it makes sense. I'd always be unhappy with the card reader not working.

[teenix]

(04-02-2019 08:48 PM)Harald Wrote:  I have thought about adapting the classic replacement PCB for the 65, but I am not sure it makes sense. I'd always be unhappy with the card reader not working.

I've been working on a prototype 67 replacement board. Its been quite a complex task and some mods were required after experimenting. I'm waiting on delivery of new PCB design.

A 65 board could be on the "cards" :-)

cheers

Tony

[burkhard]

(04-03-2019 01:15 AM)teenix Wrote:  I've been working on a prototype 67 replacement board. Its been quite a complex task and some mods were required after experimenting. I'm waiting on delivery of new PCB design.

What is the intended market for the replacement board? Is it a 1:1 replacement for a damaged board/chips or is additional functionality provided?
It's amazing (and wonderful) to see you guys developing stuff for these 40+ year old machines.

thanks!

[Harald]

(04-03-2019 01:15 AM)teenix Wrote:  

(04-02-2019 08:48 PM)Harald Wrote:  I have thought about adapting the classic replacement PCB for the 65, but I am not sure it makes sense. I'd always be unhappy with the card reader not working.

I've been working on a prototype 67 replacement board. Its been quite a complex task and some mods were required after experimenting. I'm waiting on delivery of new PCB design.

A 65 board could be on the "cards" :-)

cheers

Tony

Very nice! I would like one of those please

The 65 is quite different as it uses the classic display drivers. But maybe we can combine my display driver software with your card reader software. That would be brilliant! Maybe we could even use the card reader for storing programs for other emulated calculator models.

Cheers,
Harald

[Hans-Peter]

I am also intresting for a 65 pcb. I have a non working one in briliant shape.

Hans-Peter

[albertofenini]

(04-03-2019 01:15 AM)teenix Wrote:  

(04-02-2019 08:48 PM)Harald Wrote:  I have thought about adapting the classic replacement PCB for the 65, but I am not sure it makes sense. I'd always be unhappy with the card reader not working.

I've been working on a prototype 67 replacement board. Its been quite a complex task and some mods were required after experimenting. I'm waiting on delivery of new PCB design.

A 65 board could be on the "cards" :-)

cheers

Tony

WOW !!!!
That's exactly what I meant for the HP65, but knowing that is available for the HP67 is very good,
in my humble opinion, but that's just my two cents, I'd like to keep the units original as much as
possible, which means I'd like to populate these brand new PCB with original components from
donors, do you think the card reader will be supported ?
Anyway, congratulations, that's a hell of a reverse engineering !!!

[teenix]

(04-03-2019 02:55 PM)burkhard Wrote:  

(04-03-2019 01:15 AM)teenix Wrote:  I've been working on a prototype 67 replacement board. Its been quite a complex task and some mods were required after experimenting. I'm waiting on delivery of new PCB design.

What is the intended market for the replacement board? Is it a 1:1 replacement for a damaged board/chips or is additional functionality provided?
It's amazing (and wonderful) to see you guys developing stuff for these 40+ year old machines.

thanks!

It will be a replacement for dead boards, however the key/display board still needs to work.

I have added a small memory chip to store about 1000 programs which will load similar to the Classic replacement board.

After a recent post I saw, I also added an option to override the write protect switch so you can re-write programs onto original cards if they have lost their programs.

cheers

Tony

[teenix]

(04-03-2019 03:05 PM)Harald Wrote:  Very nice! I would like one of those please

The 65 is quite different as it uses the classic display drivers. But maybe we can combine my display driver software with your card reader software. That would be brilliant! Maybe we could even use the card reader for storing programs for other emulated calculator models.

Cheers,
Harald

A possibility. Card wise, I actually think in the 65's case the interface will be easier than the 67 as I have control of the CPU.

I recently struck a problem though, I think similar to Alberto recently, in that the card RW chip seems finicky to interface to. As it is a bi-polar chip, I'm not sure of the IO pins requirements yet as regards interfacing to CMOS so I'll need to experiment a bit more.

cheers

Tony

[teenix]

(04-03-2019 09:00 PM)albertofenini Wrote:  WOW !!!!
That's exactly what I meant for the HP65, but knowing that is available for the HP67 is very good,
in my humble opinion, but that's just my two cents, I'd like to keep the units original as much as
possible, which means I'd like to populate these brand new PCB with original components from
donors, do you think the card reader will be supported ?
Anyway, congratulations, that's a hell of a reverse engineering !!!

The card reader will be supported but I have to figure out a few issues with he interface first.

cheers

Tony

[rprosperi]

(04-03-2019 10:45 PM)teenix Wrote:  It will be a replacement for dead boards, however the key/display board still needs to work.

I have added a small memory chip to store about 1000 programs which will load similar to the Classic replacement board.

After a recent post I saw, I also added an option to override the write protect switch so you can re-write programs onto original cards if they have lost their programs.

cheers

Tony

Is this a bare board, or populated with all components so just drop-in to a '67 chassis?

This is well worth considering even for a working '67 to have that write card override feature and huge program space (continuous memory?). These 2 features address my most annoying limitations of a '67, so well done Tony, keep going!

[teenix]

(04-03-2019 11:05 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Is this a bare board, or populated with all components so just drop-in to a '67 chassis?

This is well worth considering even for a working '67 to have that write card override feature and huge program space (continuous memory?). These 2 features address my most annoying limitations of a '67, so well done Tony, keep going!

The board will be a drop in replacement.

The write protect switch (WPS) pin is shorted to ground after the card is inserted, but write protection is dependant on timing with the head switch (HDS).

I haven't tried it, but I'm pretty sure the CRC only tests the WPS input when it is monitoring the HDS input, so a simple switch should override the write protection.

The switch will need to short the WPS pin to GND prior to inserting the card.

cheers

Tony

[Massimo Gnerucci]

From the "We Want More" Dept. :)

Anything similar also for the 97?

Thanks Tony, great ideas!

[teenix]

(04-04-2019 06:45 AM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  From the "We Want More" Dept.

Anything similar also for the 97?

Thanks Tony, great ideas!

I have a replacement CPU board in the pipeline including a printer driver. I've done a lot of preliminary work on it but the 97 setup is a bit more complex than the 67 so a bit to go yet :-)

cheers

Tony

[teenix]

Hi all,

I just posted an upgrade for the PC emulator, including the HP-97

On the programmable models, you can now log the program flow. The output will wrap around after 2000 steps.

cheers

Tony