N size batteries on sale

[John Galt]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006JPHI/

2 for < $1

These deals usually expire within minutes so buy 'em quickly.

[Allen]

Good find! Thank you. At 5:25 EST orders were limited to QTY 3.

[rprosperi]

(05-27-2020 09:15 PM)John Galt Wrote:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006JPHI/

2 for < $1

These deals usually expire within minutes so buy 'em quickly.

Great price for sure, however I and many other folks here have had Duracell batteries leak with little notice and damage the devices they were in. Of course this can happen with any brand, but the number of reports of Duracell damage far outweigh other similar contenders, such as Energizers.

The problem was well known for a long time, even back in the 80's when HP advised HP-71B users (and likely other machines as well) to NOT use Duracell brand, to avoid damaging the devices.

edit: Dang - Not fast enough to warn Allen...

[Dave Frederickson]

See this post from a couple of weeks ago regarding Duracell batteries.
https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-14...#pid131631

To finish the story ... I sent a copy of the letter to Duracell and they reimbursed me $150 for the repair of my 71B. And they sent me a new set of batteries - N-cells, because "smart people" know that HP calculators use N-cells. Well I had to sell my 41CX to get the 71B so I offered the batteries to a friend with a 41 who promptly returned them because they were leaking inside the packaging.

Dave

[John Galt]

Good point. I used to set an alarm to change them every year.

Duracells used to be the only ones available for me at retail.

[cruff]

Just this week I noticed an Energizer N cell in my SY-41CL had leaked. I had to clean up the battery holder and spring contact, luckily no damage occurred to the flex conductors. Just another reminder to check all brands of batteries for leaking.

[Allen]

Thanks for the heads up. I've bought many N type batteries over the years. I've seen about as many Duracell as Energizer batteries go incontinent. I suspect that the low volume of manufacturer for N cells (demand being maybe 1% the demand for AA or AAA cells?) may leave all the manufacturer with a greater variation in production quality?

In any case, I generally only have the batteries in my various HP 41X machines during use, and remove them immediately. For my collection I have every inventory item marked as to whether or not it has batteries stored at the time ( default is NO), and at the moment, only a few of my calculators sleep overnight with batteries. Only voyager/pioneer (LR44) and a few Charlemagne 48Gs.

[Allen]

12 cells Arrived today.
The batteries are class of 2024.
Not end of shelf life like some Amazon reviews have claimed.
Thank you for the tip!

[Bill Duncan]

Interesting. I've had the opposite experience, Energizers leaking. In decades of using Duracell, I've never seen any leak. I never use Energizers for anything anymore..

(05-27-2020 09:27 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  

(05-27-2020 09:15 PM)John Galt Wrote:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006JPHI/

2 for < $1

These deals usually expire within minutes so buy 'em quickly.

Great price for sure, however I and many other folks here have had Duracell batteries leak with little notice and damage the devices they were in. Of course this can happen with any brand, but the number of reports of Duracell damage far outweigh other similar contenders, such as Energizers.

The problem was well known for a long time, even back in the 80's when HP advised HP-71B users (and likely other machines as well) to NOT use Duracell brand, to avoid damaging the devices.

edit: Dang - Not fast enough to warn Allen...

[Garth Wilson]

I have never had either brand leak in a calc. I do wonder though if some of the Energizers I've bought on eBay were not genuine. I think my next purchase will be from the battery rack at Home Depot or a drug store or supermarket where they're a lot more expensive but have Eveready's original packaging, and see if I get longer battery life.

[cruff]

(05-29-2020 08:14 AM)Garth Wilson Wrote:  I do wonder though if some of the Energizers I've bought on eBay were not genuine.

Or on Amazon, that's where my box of Energizers came from. I wonder how one would go about telling if they are genuine?

[rprosperi]

Those crafty Chinese can make darn near identical batteries, but for reasons no one understands, can't (or at least don't) make similar fidelity packaging. I suppose it's because they manufacture 1M batteries at a time, then sell them 100,000 at a time to distributors, which then get sold to eBay and Amazon sellers 1,000 at a time. It seems that making 500,000 packages would screw up their whole business plan. But that's just a guess.

Genuine brand-name batteries are almost never sold in white- or generic- boxes/packaging, they are all about the Brand Name and ensuring you must see it.

[John Galt]

(05-29-2020 09:36 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Those crafty Chinese can make darn near identical batteries ...

China is the undisputed master at counterfeiting products of all descriptions. Sometimes counterfeit products are easy to identify. Sometimes it's impossible. I happen to be familiar with at least two areas of concern: counterfeit DSPs found in high end audio equipment, and counterfeit serial devices (a brief discussion of which can be found elsewhere on this site). The DSPs in question are rather expensive; legitimate ones sell for nearly fifty dollars in large quantities. Chinese knockoffs can be identified by obvious exterior markings, and they sell for a fraction of that. It has become a high art. China has become very, very good at it, to the detriment of legitimate manufacturers and consumers all over the world.

Have a look at this picture:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-revie...GW3WSRH75/

The differences are obvious, but it seems to me that particular reviewer has it exactly backwards: the one he chose to label "counterfeit crap" looks authentic while the allegedly legitimate one bears markings that seem a little off; a typical characteristic of counterfeit products.

What do you think?

I'm mildly impressed that the counterfeit one isn't labeled 3 Volt's ?

[John Galt]

(05-30-2020 05:27 PM)John Galt Wrote:  What do you think?

Ok, so I'll tell you what I think :-)

Curiosity got the better of me so I decided to write to Energizer though their "contact us" website link. I asked, "Is there a reliable method to determine, through a visual inspection, whether batteries I purchase bearing the Energizer brand are counterfeit?"

They replied. Their answer both surprised and disappointed me. Their barely literate response follows:

We would like to inform you that every online and offline sellers are registered or they acquire products from our verified distributor or from our company

It is very rare that you will to our counterfeit batteries in the market and you will find copyright marks on our battery packaging which defines or denote batteries are counterfeit

That's it, verbatim. No punctuation.

Oh and the perfunctory close:

Your understanding and cooperation is highly appreciated.

No I don't understand, and I'm not quite sure what cooperation is expected. What is an "online and offline seller" anyway? Whatever, those sellers (online and offline, and registered!) acquire products from the Energizer battery company. Presumably Energizer doesn't counterfeit their own products. Is that what he meant? Cooperate with what? I have no idea, but they took no effort to address my question regarding how I may possibly identify a counterfeit Energizer battery.

This non-response response left me with more questions than it answered, wondering whether their customer support is as counterfeit as those batteries.

In any event I surmise they don't care about counterfeit products or unauthorized use of the Energizer brand or trade dress. And if they don't care, I certainly don't.

[Dave Frederickson]

Counterfeit electronic parts are well known in the industry. Large companies have component engineering staff whose sole function is to identify counterfeit parts, sometimes by examining the mold marks on the component bodies.

Note the list of known counterfeit battery sellers on eBay near the end of this article.
https://www.microbattery.com/counterfeit...-batteries

[rprosperi]

(06-01-2020 08:14 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  Counterfeit electronic parts are well known in the industry. Large companies have component engineering staff whose sole function is to identify counterfeit parts, sometimes by examining the mold marks on the component bodies.

Note the list of known counterfeit battery sellers on eBay near the end of this article.
https://www.microbattery.com/counterfeit...-batteries

Curious about the packaging details, as this is the method to determine the fakes, I tried to look at the detailed photos that showed original and fake packages side-by-side, using the links on the page. None of them work. Seems it's all dated material, quoting sellers in 2016 and page copyright still listed at 2018. A shame, it may have helped. And I've definitely seen some of the listed sellers while searching for batteries on eBay, though they weren't Sony batteries, so it seems these are equal-opportunity counterfeit battery sellers, also selling clones of other brands.

[John Galt]

I also contacted Duracell. Unlike Energizer they provided a cogent and detailed response that comprehensively addressed my concerns:

Thank you for contacting us. Consumers don't always share their concerns with us, and we are grateful to have the opportunity to respond.

The only way to truly determine if a battery is counterfeit is to have our Duracell Quality Assurance Team evaluate it thoroughly. However, there are some things you can look for when questioning if a battery is a true Duracell product:

- We use recycled paper in our packaging. If you look at the back of the package, the cardstock should look dull, or similar to a newspaper. If it’s bright white, it’s suspect.
- Duracell batteries are packed flush to the bottom of the cardstock. You should be able to stand our battery packs upright without them falling.
- Other possible signs of counterfeit batteries include spelling errors on the package or poor picture quality.
- Also, Coppertop batteries may not be the same color.

We hope you find the information provided helpful and will let us know if we can be of assistance to you in the future. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us at 800-551-2355.

Accompanying that was a separate one page description of proper battery use and care. That's the kind of attention to detail expected of a responsible manufacturer.

The only problem with Duracell's CR2032s is that separating them from their plastic packaging takes a determined effort with scissors, and then you have to peel off a plastic insulating label bearing the obligatory "don't ingest this" warning. No counterfeiter would bother going to those ridiculous extremes, because who cares? It's counterfeit.

I didn't think this exercise would sour me on any particular brand, but if Energizer is as uncaring as they appear to be I won't be purchasing their products.

[Eric Rechlin]

Got mine today. I was slightly less lucky on the expiration; mine are good through March 2023.

[Allen]

(06-04-2020 02:45 AM)John Galt Wrote:  I also contacted Duracell. Unlike Energizer they provided a cogent and detailed response that comprehensively addressed my concerns:



- We use recycled paper in our packaging. If you look at the back of the package, the cardstock should look dull, or similar to a newspaper. If it’s bright white, it’s suspect.
- Duracell batteries are packed flush to the bottom of the cardstock. You should be able to stand our battery packs upright without them falling.
- Other possible signs of counterfeit batteries include spelling errors on the package or poor picture quality.
- Also, Coppertop batteries may not be the same color.

We hope you find the information provided helpful and will let us know if we can be of assistance to you in the future. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us at 800-551-2355.

Hmmm, Here's what I received from Amazon..
The back is dull like newspaper, but they are not packed flush to the bottom of the card stock. I'm not 100% sure that's true for all battery types and all quantities.