Any news on the Python ?

[medwatt]

There was a build last year that was mistakenly (?) released that has a half-baked python interpreter. Since then, there hasn't been any news regarding when/if we'll ever get python. The Nspire 2 is getting Python next month and I wonder whether HP is planning a pleasant surprise for us as well.

[TheLastMillennial]

I certainly hope so. However, I'm not sure if the HP team is allowed to tell us about it until it's ready to be released.

[Chr Yoko]

What would be the advantage to get Python langage on HP Prime ?

Because of standardisation among different computers/calcs/arduino ?
=> then quid of Prime's libraries and specific functions ?

Maybe a strong selling point for education ?

Python would be in addition to PPL or will it replace it ?

[John Keith]

The main reason for wanting Python on a calculator seems to be the wide adoption of Python in education, especially in Europe.

A full Python install with Numpy/Scipy/Sympy would probably require more flash memory than the Prime has, although the G2 might come close. Also the Prime uses Xcas which is quite different than Sympy and that would probably cause a lot of confusion.

It would have been great if the Prime was designed to run Python from the beginning but that was over 7 years ago and Python was not as dominant in education as it is now.

[parisse]

(08-20-2020 08:01 PM)John Keith Wrote:  A full Python install with Numpy/Scipy/Sympy would probably require more flash memory than the Prime has, although the G2 might come close. Also the Prime uses Xcas which is quite different than Sympy and that would probably cause a lot of confusion.

Sympy performances are far behind Xcas performances, and sympy is slow, which might be a problem on a calculator, even on the G2. Giacpy is a much better alternative for Python.

[Anders]

(08-22-2020 05:47 AM)parisse Wrote:  

(08-20-2020 08:01 PM)John Keith Wrote:  A full Python install with Numpy/Scipy/Sympy would probably require more flash memory than the Prime has, although the G2 might come close. Also the Prime uses Xcas which is quite different than Sympy and that would probably cause a lot of confusion.

Sympy performances are far behind Xcas performances, and sympy is slow, which might be a problem on a calculator, even on the G2. Giacpy is a much better alternative for Python.

Agree! Xcas is also much more developed and capable (will take a long time before Sympy is anywhere near in the current development speed). Xcas just need to adjust parts of the interface to smoothly fit with Python a bit here and there - Giacpy might be it. Have not spent enough time with Giacpy to know...

[Valentin Albillo]

(08-23-2020 06:09 PM)compsystems Wrote:  Bernard Parisse has practically developed only the computational algebra engine, one of the most difficult applications in computer science.

You mean "alone" instead of "only", right ?

V.

[pinkman]

(08-24-2020 12:52 AM)Valentin Albillo Wrote:  

(08-23-2020 06:09 PM)compsystems Wrote:  Bernard Parisse has practically developed only the computational algebra engine, one of the most difficult applications in computer science.

You mean "alone" instead of "only", right ?

V.

I guess he does, Bernard’s work is well known here.

[Stevetuc]

(08-24-2020 09:00 AM)pinkman Wrote:  

(08-24-2020 12:52 AM)Valentin Albillo Wrote:  You mean "alone" instead of "only", right ?

V.

I guess he does, Bernard’s work is well known here.

https://wikidiff.com/lone/only
Perhaps the alternative (obsolete)form "onely" was meant? ?

[Valentin Albillo]

(08-24-2020 09:56 AM)Stevetuc Wrote:  

(08-24-2020 09:00 AM)pinkman Wrote:  I guess he does, Bernard’s work is well known here.

Perhaps the alternative (obsolete)form "onely" was meant? ?

No, the reason for the confusion is that compsystems native language is Spanish, and in Spanish both "alone" and "only" translate as the same word, "solo".

When doing the inverse translation from the Spanish "solo" to English, compsystems simply chose the wrong word ("only") instead of the correct one, "alone".

That's it.
V.

[pinkman]

Back to the Python subject, and considering that French high schools ask students to own a Python calc, I think HP is missing something this year again.
CAS is a good feature for advanced students, but for the high school students (16-18 y.o.), Python is mandatory.

To address these two markets, HP should implement 2 Primes:
- Prime Python (the simpler one)
- Prime CAS (the actual one)
Which correspond to TI83 Python and TI Nspire CAS...

And then offer teachers free ressources and goodies to market those products.

[Anders]

(08-24-2020 08:27 PM)pinkman Wrote:  Back to the Python subject, and considering that French high schools ask students to own a Python calc, I think HP is missing something this year again.
CAS is a good feature for advanced students, but for the high school students (16-18 y.o.), Python is mandatory.

To address these two markets, HP should implement 2 Primes:
- Prime Python (the simpler one)
- Prime CAS (the actual one)
Which correspond to TI83 Python and TI Nspire CAS...

And then offer teachers free ressources and goodies to market those products.

...OR just make sure full Pyhon is implemented in the existing HP Prime included in the next firmware release AND just have a setting for CAS on/off (like exam mode today).

current HP PRIME H/W is more than capable.

[Steve Simpkin]

(08-24-2020 08:27 PM)pinkman Wrote:  Back to the Python subject, and considering that French high schools ask students to own a Python calc, I think HP is missing something this year again.
CAS is a good feature for advanced students, but for the high school students (16-18 y.o.), Python is mandatory.

To address these two markets, HP should implement 2 Primes:
- Prime Python (the simpler one)
- Prime CAS (the actual one)
Which correspond to TI83 Python and TI Nspire CAS...

And then offer teachers free ressources and goodies to market those products.

I don't know the answer to this but did HP have any significant graphing calculator market share in France prior to this Python mandate? If not, HP marketing (or the bean counters that run the company) may have decided it was not worth the investment to formally add Python to the Prime at this time. Just a thought.
Also, is there a hard requirement for Python in any other marketplace outside of France?

[Giancarlo]

Hello,
Good question. In Italy for example I don’t feel the ‘python’ pressure while I feel the python pressure in France where some parents are teachers in different domains and they both told me about it.

I am not a python expert so I’d like to understand from other people a feedback about the HP Prime Python application that was left unintentionally in a intermediate firmware release. What was the status? Near to completion?

This just to understand if HP is trying to implement a ‘huge’ thing to eliminate the other competitors in the Python field or not.

I thought that I was able to go on vacation having this application in order to play with it with calm. Unfortunately it didn’t happen so I am thinking about Xmas right now :+)

Thanks

Giancarlo

[pinkman]

If you speak French (or trust Google Translate) you can read this review of the unintentionally published alpha Python app: https://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23092

[Giancarlo]

Hello, very nice link.
From what I read it seems that the Python App at that stage was still in alpha version. That means that the application is far from completion (need Lot of time to Complete) even if the comments about the application are good because of the modules available (it doesn’t mean that they all be part of the final release).

Now it would be great to understand if the missing delivery of this app is due to a different choice by the mktg at HP to focus on different subject or because the developers are encountering issues in the integration of the language even if it should be a application on its own.

As I also wrote in this forum to me one BIG complication is the integration of all the different platforms of the Prime including the pc application, the tablet application (Android and iOS). I am just scared that a little modification in the code trigger a lot of test made always by the same people. It’s not just updating the firmware like it was in the hp48 era...

The last point to me is financial. I am concerned that all these platforms (that I appreciate a lot) are not bringing enough money to hp to invest further in the Prime. For this reason I also thought that Python could be charged to interested people in a module like the wireless one.
The same could happen also for an engineering module (but that’s another story)...

Thanks

Giancarlo

[pinkman]

Well I’m not in the hardware business, but I can make a few assumptions:
- once you got the hardware (Prime), adding software is much less expensive
- alpha version in January and no definitive version in August, missing the “back-to-school” opportunity -> it is not a question of time, as you say it is a question of financial strategy
- HP could open source or externalize the Python App, there will be plenty of volunteers, but I assume it is a question of anti-cheating guarantee, even if NumWorks managed it

[Giancarlo]

If other calculators makers are already in the python business, are we sure that there is the need also for hp to do the same? Arriving late in this business will probably delete all the efforts made by the developers team...

I don’t know what you think but at this stage is probably better to come back to the engineers business and develop menus, folders and many other things that were requested in the past.

I know that I sound a little bit pathetic and young Prime adopters do not miss these things however I think that having a single platform - the Prime - being able to satisfy students and professionals could be the way to come back to the origins.

By the way I think that the Prime is still a wonderful calculator with all the features necessary to turn it into a perfect calculator like the 48/49/50 have been for long time.

Thanks

Giancarlo