Threaded Mode | Linear Mode

EngineerX · (This post was last modified: 12-31-2020 01:30 AM by EngineerX.)

(12-30-2020 09:25 PM)Peet Wrote: Must have:
storage access

How it could look:

Oh, make the display a bit larger, add modern fonts, increase the size of the decimal point, make everything fit on the screen, add alternatives to save battery and I will certainly buy a couple.

Maximilian Hohmann · 12-30-2020, 10:23 PM

(12-30-2020 10:00 PM)EngineerX Wrote: ... to save battery ...

One thing that I forgot on my wish list: I never ever want to buy a product again (and that includes calculators) that only runs on disposable batteries. Either it consumes so little energy that it can be powered a solar cell or it needs a rechargeable battery. Like every piece of cheap Chinese junk does since a decade or so.

trojdor · 12-30-2020, 10:32 PM

Any replacement needs to "up it's game" to make it easier to hold it's own against the other NCEES approved calculators.

Since it competes directly with the TI-36x Pro and the Casio fx-991EX as NCEES test approved calculators, it really needs to have, AT LEAST, similar built-in capabilities. (And at least an on-board backup for pgms and eqs.)

As EngineerX pointed out, both of the others (the Casio in particular) have extensive built in solvers. The 35s has a 2x2 and a 3x3 linear solver, and an explicit integral solver. Whee. And although it can do Dot products, it can't do Cross products? (And let's just not compare speed to the 991EX.)

So yes, it's sadly lacking in built-in exam features.
And, as already pointed out, any programs you write....and equations you store....have to be entered manually, and can't be backed up.

The reason I use it, and recommend it (with the right additional software) for the NCEES exams, is the strength of the Equation Solver and (of course) the ease at which RPN allows quick/accurate calculations.

A new calculator that addresses the shortcomings would be very welcomed.

Hlib · 12-31-2020, 12:42 PM

On one of the forums, I read such opinions about the hp-35s calculator:
–"I currently own a Hew. Pack. 35s and I hate it."
–"The HP35S is excellent calculator, which replaced HP41 series."
–"HP35s is not excellent at all, it is perhaps one of the worst products ever made by HP."
–"The more I use this caculator the more I like it."
Let it remain as it turned out.

Marco Polo · 12-31-2020, 02:30 PM

(12-31-2020 12:42 PM)Hlib Wrote: On one of the forums, I read such opinions about the hp-35s calculator:
–"I currently own a Hew. Pack. 35s and I hate it."
–"The HP35S is excellent calculator, which replaced HP41 series."
–"HP35s is not excellent at all, it is perhaps one of the worst products ever made by HP."
–"The more I use this caculator the more I like it."
Let it remain as it turned out.

Well, i think it is a "polarizing" product.
It's external design recalls the old good HP calcs and cause user's high expectations. The keyboard is decent and easy to read.
But, all in all, is just a 33s with a better dress and more bugs.
In my experience it gives a pretty decent service if used for what it is: a low-end scientific calculator.
The bugs are known and well documented, so it is easy to avoid them.
The most annoying problems in my use are the display, the CRC bug and the lack of a way to import-export programs and equations.
Considering the type of calculator I can live with the one-letter variables and program labels.
Anyway, as of today I surely will not buy it.
Just my 2 cents

Dave Britten · 12-31-2020, 03:44 PM

Fix the bugs, add the missing polar/rectangular conversion functions, make working with hex/binary less awful, and dump the line-number addressing in favor of numeric local labels, and I'd buy one.

aurelio · (This post was last modified: 12-31-2020 04:36 PM by aurelio.)

(12-30-2020 10:00 PM)EngineerX Wrote:
(12-30-2020 09:25 PM)Peet Wrote: Must have:
storage access

How it could look:
Oh, make the display a bit larger, add modern fonts, increase the size of the decimal point, make everything fit on the screen, add alternatives to save battery and I will certainly buy a couple.

I'm agree with you about the display (although for me the 48g black one should be enough), and with Maximilian for the batteries and related leakage problems to avoid, but the best I read is the Massimo's torch Smile

Chr Yoko · 12-31-2020, 04:57 PM

Home office becoming the mandatory trend these days, it would be great to see also a new desktop calculator "à la" HP-97 :

- Large / bulky / stable
- Mechanical keyboard with plenty of built in functions
- Programmable for the missing specific functions you might need
- USB powered and data connected to PC for updates and programs down/up loads
- PC software for wysiwyg & copy-paste sessions to excel-word-powerpoint
- Highly visible emitting screen for low light sessions : red color LED or OLED types prefered

I still make a lot of use of a real RPN calculator during Teams meetings when you often need to make a quick calculation to make your point valid to the other meeting participants....

I find real calculators much more convenient than firing up excel or a PC based calculator that will never appear on the most convenient place.

At home, nobody will take the calculator during the lunch break : it is safe !

Hence the idea about a large desktop calculator for home office use....

Maximilian Hohmann · 12-31-2020, 05:54 PM

Hello!

(12-30-2020 10:32 PM)trojdor Wrote: Any replacement needs to "up it's game" to make it easier to hold it's own against the other NCEES approved calculators

Is that really so? Firstly there are already plenty of approved calculators, a saturated market so to say, and secondly, calculators are sold worldwide. Zero percent of customers outside the US care about NCEES approval and a very large percentage within the US will not care either. So I would say just forget a about this and make a calculator instead that can and will be used by professionals on their job.

Regards
Max

[kby] · 12-31-2020, 06:53 PM

(12-31-2020 04:57 PM)Chr Yoko Wrote: Home office becoming the mandatory trend these days, it would be great to see also a new desktop calculator "à la" HP-97 :
…
Hence the idea about a large desktop calculator for home office use....

If it’s going to be a desktop, then I want a Nixie tube display :-).-kby

trojdor · (This post was last modified: 12-31-2020 11:54 PM by trojdor.)

(12-31-2020 05:54 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote: Hello!

(12-30-2020 10:32 PM)trojdor Wrote: Any replacement needs to "up it's game" to make it easier to hold it's own against the other NCEES approved calculators

Is that really so? Firstly there are already plenty of approved calculators, a saturated market so to say, and secondly, calculators are sold worldwide. Zero percent of customers outside the US care about NCEES approval and a very large percentage within the US will not care either. So I would say just forget a about this and make a calculator instead that can and will be used by professionals on their job.

Regards
Max

Hello Max, and Happy New Year!

Firstly, saturated market? There are fundamentally 2 other calculators to choose from for the NCEES Professional Engineers licensing exams. If I went to the grocery store and found a total of 2 boxes of cereal on the shelves, I wouldn't think the shelves were saturated/full, LOL.

I wholeheartedly agree that whatever HP might do, it should be useful for a Professional Engineer to use daily at their job....but that is the whole point of the NCEES exams. They simulate what a potential engineer might face at a stressful day at work. If you can't do the job, then no license for you.

Most country's (not just the U.S.) licensing tests are intentionally difficult and hard to pass, so both the FE and PE candidates must invest many hours of study. And the calculator they choose to use to practice/study to get their license with, will typically be the one they use throughout their career. (At least the same brand, if not model.)

Right now, that means that the typical/average working professional engineer will supplement Excel with either a TI, a Casio, or a phone app.

Here's to hoping 2021 is a better year for everyone!
mike

Artur - Brasil · 12-31-2020, 11:58 PM

Well, as a engennering, I need the CAS for solving complex algebraic calculatuions: so, Hp 50g CAS would be great. Also, calculations with units (like 50g again).
As some faculty do not allow graphical calculators, no graphics functionality at all (this was a pit with the new Swiss 42s), just the display for two lines to algebric expressions.
Also the soft menus are great, so, a third line in display for them and a free line of keys under it for direct access.
About programming - just repeat the 50g structure. It is far beyond 41 system, with numerical registers, as we can get the directories structure with free named variables.
Keyboard redefinition only by soft menu I believe it is enough.
RPN - of course, but with the perfect integration between CAS and a 4 level stack - not two environments as in Prime, neither a free level stack, as 50g - but if difficult to create something like this, so a free stack.
Of course, the SD card for storage and USB connection to computer and recharging process.

Maybe a gift from HP, or Swiss Micros to us in 2021!
Happy new year!!!

Steve Simpkin · 01-01-2021, 01:30 AM

(12-31-2020 09:16 PM)trojdor Wrote: Hello Max, and Happy New Year!
...
I wholeheartedly agree that whatever HP might do, it should be useful for a Professional Engineer to use daily at their job....
...
mike

That's the million dollar question. Is there still a sizable market for calculators for engineers and scientists?

For engineering (and probably science) applications I don't think that "calculations" are now being done very often using physical calculators. In my personal experience, manual "calculations" of any kind are just not needed as often. When I started as an electrical engineer in the early 80's I had to manually calculate the value of almost every resistor, capacitor and inductor in the analog circuitry I designed. Even with digital circuits I had to calculate many, many timing related values. I did these calculations manually well into the 90's using a series of ever more powerful HP calculators. Over time my need for manual calculations gradually decreased. Specialized computer aided design software, spreadsheets and the "typical" application schematics contained in device datasheets all but eliminated the need to manually calculate the values of anything using a calculator. In my opinion, these changes in the engineering profession and the newer tools that have evolved have mostly eliminated the need for a physical calculator in this role. For myself, I will still go out of my way to find an excuse to use my HP-48SX to do a quick calculation but I can't imagine someone younger who only used a calculator as required during class and tests needing to use one as an engineering tool today.

Even if there is a small market for "engineering" calculators, is it big enough for HP and other manufactures to pursue making specific calculators for that market? Can't that relatively small need (if it indeed exists at all) be filled by using existing scientific and graphical calculators that are already produced for the education market?

Thomas Radtke · 01-01-2021, 12:04 PM

(12-31-2020 02:30 PM)Marco Polo Wrote: But, all in all, is just a 33s with a better dress and more bugs.

No, the functionality has been vastly extended. The 33S is just an ugly 32SII with more memory [that you cannot make much use of] and rewritten firmware [to have lots of bugs]. The 35s extends it and has new bugs along with new functionalities, but really is the true successor of the 32SII.

Hlib · 01-01-2021, 12:28 PM

Quote:- My collegue`s HP 35s stopped to work. We changed batteries and reset it but no luck.
- Did you use real fresh new ones?
- Seems to have been some battery issue after all ... (might be bad connection). New batteries and it worked ... But we tested it before w batteries ... and it did not start.

https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-707.html
This strange behavior of hp-35s was quite common.

Quote:People here have been waiting for a bug-free 35s since 2007,

https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-53...l#pid53398

Quote:HP as a company seems to reorganize itself every few years, it`s hard to imagine how any project can survive long in that environment.

https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-53...l#pid52175
IMO, you should not be too optimistic about the expectations of a new good calculator from HP.

(01-01-2021 01:30 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote: ...Even if there is a small market for "engineering" calculators, is it big enough for HP and other manufactures to pursue making specific calculators for that market? Can't that relatively small need (if it indeed exists at all) be filled by using existing scientific and graphical calculators that are already produced for the education market?

That`s a great point! Currently, we can choose a calculator or emulator for every taste. Though none of them meet all the requirements, however, a set of two or three different models compensates for most the shortcomings and is suitable for almost any task.

Maximilian Hohmann · 01-01-2021, 12:35 PM

Hello!

(01-01-2021 01:30 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote: Can't that relatively small need (if it indeed exists at all) be filled by using existing scientific and graphical calculators that are already produced for the education market?

This is probably what is mostly done right now. We have had this discussion since a long time (and should continue to discuss for as long as anybody cares to make calculators!) and the more the years go by, the fewer professionals use pocket calculators at work. When I finished my engineering studies in aerospace engineering in 1986 or so that was already the case in my field. I have never seen anyone (other than accountants and sales persons) use a pocket calculator in the office or lab. Nowhere, ever.

But if I could actually use a calculator for some "real" calculations it would certainly not be one these NCEES approved models. Apart from the HP33s and HP35s these are currently all Casio fx-115 and fx-991 models and all TI-30X and TI-36X models. There must be dozens of variants of those Casio and Ti calculators and they all have in common their price range between 15 and 25 Euros. The HPs are standing out from these not only because they are/were more expensive by factor of 2 to 4 and because there are programmable. At least something, but not really all that useful in practical terms without permanent storage. If that can't be implemented by NCEES standards the only other way to compete on that market will be through the retail price. And do we really want HP calculators that are made more cheaply than the HP35s?

Regards
Max

Steve Simpkin · 01-01-2021, 01:45 PM

(01-01-2021 12:35 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote: Hello!

(01-01-2021 01:30 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote: Can't that relatively small need (if it indeed exists at all) be filled by using existing scientific and graphical calculators that are already produced for the education market?

This is probably what is mostly done right now. We have had this discussion since a long time (and should continue to discuss for as long as anybody cares to make calculators!) and the more the years go by, the fewer professionals use pocket calculators at work. When I finished my engineering studies in aerospace engineering in 1986 or so that was already the case in my field. I have never seen anyone (other than accountants and sales persons) use a pocket calculator in the office or lab. Nowhere, ever.

But if I could actually use a calculator for some "real" calculations it would certainly not be one these NCEES approved models. Apart from the HP33s and HP35s these are currently all Casio fx-115 and fx-991 models and all TI-30X and TI-36X models. There must be dozens of variants of those Casio and Ti calculators and they all have in common their price range between 15 and 25 Euros. The HPs are standing out from these not only because they are/were more expensive by factor of 2 to 4 and because there are programmable. At least something, but not really all that useful in practical terms without permanent storage. If that can't be implemented by NCEES standards the only other way to compete on that market will be through the retail price. And do we really want HP calculators that are made more cheaply than the HP35s?

Regards
Max

Technically we already have that with the HP 10s+ and the HP 300s+...

toml_12953 · 01-01-2021, 01:56 PM

(12-31-2020 06:53 PM)[kby] Wrote:
(12-31-2020 04:57 PM)Chr Yoko Wrote: Home office becoming the mandatory trend these days, it would be great to see also a new desktop calculator "à la" HP-97 :
…
Hence the idea about a large desktop calculator for home office use....

If it’s going to be a desktop, then I want a Nixie tube display :-).-kby

I'd want a Planar Gas Discharge (Panaplex) display. Nice orange digits like Nixies. The green digits on the CRT of an HP 9100 are great, too!

Jlouis · 01-01-2021, 03:25 PM

(12-31-2020 04:57 PM)Chr Yoko Wrote: Home office becoming the mandatory trend these days, it would be great to see also a new desktop calculator "à la" HP-97 :

- Large / bulky / stable
- Mechanical keyboard with plenty of built in functions
- Programmable for the missing specific functions you might need
- USB powered and data connected to PC for updates and programs down/up loads
- PC software for wysiwyg & copy-paste sessions to excel-word-powerpoint
- Highly visible emitting screen for low light sessions : red color LED or OLED types prefered

I still make a lot of use of a real RPN calculator during Teams meetings when you often need to make a quick calculation to make your point valid to the other meeting participants....

I find real calculators much more convenient than firing up excel or a PC based calculator that will never appear on the most convenient place.

At home, nobody will take the calculator during the lunch break : it is safe !

Hence the idea about a large desktop calculator for home office use....

I liked this idea, although I think it is not feasible anymore nowadays. It's a pity.

Just for the records, the HP 97 is a portable calculator.

Marco Polo · 01-01-2021, 05:35 PM

(01-01-2021 12:04 PM)Thomas Radtke Wrote:
(12-31-2020 02:30 PM)Marco Polo Wrote: But, all in all, is just a 33s with a better dress and more bugs.
No, the functionality has been vastly extended. The 33S is just an ugly 32SII with more memory [that you cannot make much use of] and rewritten firmware [to have lots of bugs]. The 35s extends it and has new bugs along with new functionalities, but really is the true successor of the 32SII.

This is the proof that I never fell in love with my 35s to dig its functionalities in depth :-D