Help needed with HP-IL disk drive

[Namir]

I recently bought an HP-911B disk drive with HP-IL interface. I am totaly rusty and in need of a proverbial WD-40. What commands can I issue on an HP-71B connected to that drive in order to format the disk? WIll the INITIALIZE command by itself suffice, or do I need something like ASSIGN IO?

I really appreciate you hand-holding instructions for this rusty veteran!

Namir

[Sylvain Cote]

ref: 82401A HP-IL Interface Owner's Manual

format floppy: INITIALIZE DISK1:MASSMEM <endline>
list floppy content: CAT :MASSMEM <endline>
copy file to floppy: COPY ABC TO :MASSMEM <endline>
copy file from floppy: COPY ABC:MASSMEM <endline>

Have fun!

Sylvain

edit: typo

[Namir]

When I execute INITIALIZE DISK1:MASSMEM I get teh following error

HPIL Error: Loop Broken

I have used two different HP-71B and changed the HP-IL cables ... and still get the drive. I have allowed the disk drive to charge since the morning (it's about 8:30 pm here).

Can the drive be malfunctioning? Do I need to do an ASSIGN IO command first??

Namir

[Raymond Del Tondo]

(05-26-2014 12:28 AM)Namir Wrote:  I have allowed the disk drive to charge since the morning (it's about 8:30 pm here).

Can the drive be malfunctioning?

Yes, but in any case you will need a working battery for the drive to work properly.

[Paul Berger (Canada)]

Well if you are getting loop broken that assign IO is not going to help you and it is not required. I am guessing that 911B = 9114B when you turn it on the battery indicator should indicate full, and the test light go out. You can eliminate the cables as a problem source by connecting the ends together and then you can force the 71B to rescan the loop by executing 'control on'. If the loop is closed you should not get any message. Do you know that the battery in it is any good?

[Paul Berger (Canada)]

It is possible to run them without a working battery I have 3 that I use without a battery pack you need a 6V DC supply at about 1-1.5A connected to the battery terminals. The narrow pin is positive.

[Namir]

Paul I did the CONTROL ON command with a single cable connecting both built-in HP-IL terminals. The machine did not generate an error.

I am not sure about the battery. It shows fully charged lights earlier this evening. After I turned it off and then on after an hour ... the battery light kept blinking, I did read on the Internet that the 9114B can operate without a battery. The seller never replied to my question about the battery. His auction stated that the drive was in a working condition ... which may not be true.

Namir

[Namir]

(05-26-2014 12:54 AM)Paul Berger (Canada) Wrote:  It is possible to run them without a working battery I have 3 that I use without a battery pack you need a 6V DC supply at about 1-1.5A connected to the battery terminals. The narrow pin is positive.

Can you recommend a power supply model that I can buy from Amazon or anywhere else on the Internet?

Namir

[Katie Wasserman]

(05-26-2014 01:48 AM)Namir Wrote:  Can you recommend a power supply model that I can buy from Amazon or anywhere else on the Internet?

There are many 2 amp variable DC power supplies around. But most low-end ones will make it too easy to change the voltage when you don't want it to change. This might make for a bad day if it accidentally gets cranked up too high.

This one is regulated, has a 6 volt setting, and the voltage setting is not too easy to change. I have one and it's decent as long as you don't run it at full load (2 Amps) for too long. $32 is a lot of money for this, shop around and you'll be able to find it for a lot less. Look for MW122A it goes by many brand names.

BTW, at 3 and 4.5 volts it's also good for powering HP handhelds.


p.s. MCM has it on sale for under $18 (+ shipping and tax)

This looks like the same thing too.

[Paul Berger (Canada)]

Well there is nothing special about the power supplies I use, but unfortunately they where purchased from a now defunct chain of stores in Canada. I am sure that any sort of universal supply that can output 6V at about 2A will be fine.

What I did for mine is I made up pigtails with female spade connectors on one end that I slip over the battery contact, don't worry if they are not the same width as long as they stay on the terminals, and on the other end I have a connector that I plug the power supply into. You could also put the spade connectors right on the ends of the leads from the power supply too, just be careful of the polarity.

I don't think that the power supply is critical except it needs to supply 6V , I have never checked to see exactly how much current they draw the two that I have successfully use one is a fixed voltage 6V supply rated at 1.8A and the other is an adjustable 2A supply that has a switch to select a few different outputs from 6-12V, both of these work fine.

The problem with a bad battery pack is the 6V nominal voltage from the batteries feeds a 3 terminal 5V regulator that supplies the logic voltage and with only 6V in it is pretty close to the drop out voltage for the regulator, the spec sheet for it says it will operate with a minimum of 0.6V difference which means that below 5.6V it will stop operating. These battery packs are reputed to use lead-acid gel cells and it is possible to get new cells to replace the ones in the pack, but if it still has the original cells they would likely be very old and long past their expected life time.

The most common problems with these units are the diskette drives themselves, however the B version is a little better than the A in that respect. Of the four non-working units I bought only one had a legitimate electronic problem, and that did not affect the HPIL.

[Dave Frederickson]

(05-26-2014 02:50 AM)Paul Berger (Canada) Wrote:  What I did for mine is I made up pigtails with female spade connectors on one end that I slip over the battery contact, don't worry if they are not the same width as long as they stay on the terminals, and on the other end I have a connector that I plug the power supply into. You could also put the spade connectors right on the ends of the leads from the power supply too, just be careful of the polarity.

The connector on the battery that plugs into the 9114 is a Cinch-Jones S-302-CCT available from Newark. The attached periodicals contain articles on building your own power supply for the 9114.

Link 1 and Link 2.

Dave

[Namir]

Thank you Katie, Paul, and Dave for your valuable help and links. I think I will get the power supply and connector. My step-daughter's fiance is a certified electrician who can help me put it together (if I need help).

Namir

[Dave Frederickson]

Measurements show that the 9114 draws up to 3.8 amps.



How's the 2 amp supply working?

Dave

[Dave Frederickson]

Here's another 'scope shot of a 9114 running of the battery. This is the result of executing RESTOREIO (that's 10 amps).



How well does a 2-amp power supply work? Stay tuned.

Dave

[Les Bell]

(05-26-2014 12:28 AM)Namir Wrote:  When I execute INITIALIZE DISK1:MASSMEM I get teh following error

HPIL Error: Loop Broken

I have used two different HP-71B and changed the HP-IL cables ... and still get the drive. I have allowed the disk drive to charge since the morning (it's about 8:30 pm here).

Can the drive be malfunctioning? Do I need to do an ASSIGN IO command first??

Namir

In my (limited) experience with reviving old HP-IL gear, the connectors on the cables and devices can easily get slightly corroded. Vigorously plugging and unplugging them a few times may be all that's required to restore a good connection.

[Dave Frederickson]

(07-02-2014 01:50 AM)Les Bell Wrote:  Vigorously plugging and unplugging them a few times may be all that's required to restore a good connection.

See Favorite Fluids for fluid changes on Calcs. DeoxIT (Pro Gold) cleans and lubes the contacts nicely.

(05-26-2014 12:28 AM)Namir Wrote:  When I execute INITIALIZE DISK1:MASSMEM I get teh following error

HPIL Error: Loop Broken

The 9114 has built-in self tests, one of which tests the HP-IL. All you need to do is short the HP-IL port with a cable and run the diagnostics described in the CE Handbook, Section V, Test 2. It's not a bad thing to run the other tests as well.

Dave

[Paul Berger (Canada)]

(07-02-2014 01:36 AM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  How well does a 2-amp power supply work? Stay tuned.

Dave

Very well in my experience, I have even run a 9114B on a tiny 6V 1500mA power cube, and no battery, without any problems initializing, reading or writing diskettes.

[Dave Frederickson]

Hi Paul,

I'd like to get a better understanding on how that's possible given the current measurements.
A member of the Vintage Computer forum recommended a 7.5V 3.5A supply. I ordered a 6V 3A wall wart for $6 on Amazon. I'll also try a bench supply with a variable current limit to determine how little current is needed before the drive fails.

Dave

[Gerson W. Barbosa]

(07-02-2014 02:56 AM)Paul Berger (Canada) Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 01:36 AM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  How well does a 2-amp power supply work? Stay tuned.

Dave

Very well in my experience, I have even run a 9114B on a tiny 6V 1500mA power cube, and no battery, without any problems initializing, reading or writing diskettes.

That may depend on the quality of the AC adapter. Mine would not work on a generic brandless 6V 2A switching power supply. Then I changed to another brandless 6.5 V 2.5A switching power supply for Olympus digital cameras and it worked flawlessly. No problem ever since.

[vassilisprevelakis]

Hi,

I'd just open the battery pack and replace the battery.

Its a standard lead-acid gel cell (sealed) battery.

Then you can just run the drive with the battery pack permanently plugged into the HP charger.

Lead acid cells are very robust and do not mind being repeatedly charged (i.e. no memory effect) and they last for years. (which is why they are used in most UPSs).

I think this solution also offers the best protection for your HP-IL drive. I wouldn't trust a no-name power supply.

Best Regards

**vp