Students’ calcs in the 70s/80s

[Matt Agajanian]

Hi all.

Here’s an interesting one.

When calculators were allowed in school, I would presume only calcs without constant memory were allowed. However, if a constant memory model was allowed, I would presume the teacher would have the student clear registers and program memory.

[Thomas Klemm]

(12-27-2023 04:56 PM)Matt Agajanian Wrote:  However, if a constant memory model was allowed, I would presume the teacher would have the student clear registers and program memory.

From 1981 until 1985 I could use my HP-41CV in tests without clearing the memory.
My teacher had an HP-41CX and would have known how to create a MEMORY LOST.

We were allowed to use a formulary.
So there was no use to store formulas in the calculator.

We had to write down the complete solution.
If we made a careless error in calculating the final result, this only resulted in a small deduction of points.

The programs that I could use allowed me to verify the results.
Was that fair? I don't know. In principle, this option was available to everyone.

Later at the university we were not allowed to use programmable calculators in exams.

[jthole]

In the early 1980s, we had an official book with formulas and scientific constants. We were allowed to use that during the mathematics, science, chemistry, and biology tests. There also was no restriction on the calculators, IIRC.

During other exams (e.g. English and French) no calculators were allowed at all.

Even in university, we were allowed a programmable calculator. In fact, we also had “open book” exams.

Edit: actually, in university we were encouraged to buy a programmable calculator. I studied computer science from 1986 until 1991.

[KF6GPE]

From 1984 to 1988 I had first an HP-15C and later an HP-41CX in high school.

My instructors did not know that they were programmable until I showed them some of the basics of calculator programming. My high school physics/chemistry teacher was the most interested.

All of them took me at my word that I would not use programs, formulas, or registers on exams. I never was asked to clear it.

I suspect that it was an earned trust, too --- by approaching them and showing them what it could do I let them know that I was cognizant that I could cheat, and was openly letting them know that that was the case and that I wouldn't, as opposed to not demonstrating anything and earning suspicion because I was not using a traditional four-function or scientific calculator.

At university the classes were too big to proctor and no one seemed to care, or small enough that it was a similar deal -- approach the instructor or TA, and if they didn't know what it was, explain, and then ask, and usually get approval.

It probably helped in both settings that I occasionally took out a slide rule, too, and used that on class assignments and tests.

[carey]

College of engineering within a private university in the mid to late 1970’s and no restrictions on calculator use. High school calculator use policies would probably have been more restrictive at that time.

[Johnh]

At high school in the 1970's, we did O-Level at age 16, 1976 for me. No calcs allowed, just slide rules and tables.

By A-levels in 1978, we all had scientifics. Mine was a Commodore SR1800. I don't know if we could have used a programmable, but no one had one.

For university engineering at Cambridge there was no restriction. I had a Ti-58. A C version would have been better, but it did have a ROM module with matrix, solve and integrate functions. And I used those in my final exam in 1982 to get me through and save me time on a couple of things that I probably should have been able to do without it!

[lrdheat]

In 1972/73, one could easily recognize science students (Florida State University) by the slide rule leather holster hanging from their belts. In 1973, 2 desk chairs in the meteorology library had the miraculous HP 35’s locked to the desks in special cradles for use by students. By 1975, slide rules were largely gone (I still have mine as well as my dad’s HP 35 that he purchased in 1973, still in mint working condition on my desk at the TV station)!

[lrdheat]

In 1970, our high school in Westport, CT had an HP 9100A with a plotter! This was so much fun to program, and employ the plotter. My best friend and I thought that it would be so neat to have something like that at our homes. It did not occur to us that much more capable hand held devices would be an eventuality, including symbolic math!

[dm319]

(12-27-2023 08:50 PM)Johnh Wrote:  university engineering at Cambridge there was no restriction.

Reading through these replies makes me realise how much less trusted our generation were (as a millennial), though in retrospect cheating was an issue when I was at university, and I think it is even more so these days.

When I was at Cambridge, though not for engineering, they had a system where you had to get your calculator pre-approved with a CU★ sticker. Seems like a good system because they had a list of approved calculators, but presumably had the flexibility to allow other, odd ones, too.

[trojdor]

(12-27-2023 10:15 PM)lrdheat Wrote:  In 1972/73, one could easily recognize science students (Florida State University) by the slide rule leather holster hanging from their belts. In 1973, 2 desk chairs in the meteorology library had the miraculous HP 35’s locked to the desks in special cradles for use by students. By 1975, slide rules were largely gone (I still have mine as well as my dad’s HP 35 that he purchased in 1973, still in mint working condition on my desk at the TV station)!

Funny story;
In 1973, me and 2 other engineering students stopped into a McDonalds in Chicago, for dinner.
We had just come from our last class at school, and were still (proudly) wearing our Teledyne Post Versalog II slide rules on our belt.

When we went back to the car, there were two cops waiting for us, with guns drawn.
Turns out, they had received a call about 3 youth carrying machetes on their belts at McD's, LOL!
Once they saw what we were actually carrying, it was funny....but it was pretty tense, at first.

As far as trust during exams goes, it would have been hard to cheat with the kind of tests we typically took.
They were more problems involving complex engineering, requiring multiple steps in the process to show you truly understood what you were doing.

However, there was one trick you could do with the HP45, if you wanted to cheat a little.
Since those early HPs didn't have continuous memory, all we had to do was show the instructor the screen was blank (and therefore supposedly OFF) before the test started.

Turns out, if you leave the calculator on, and just press the decimal point, the display APPEARS to be off (especially from across a bright room)....as the only character in the display is that small decimal segment...but you had 9 memory registers that could still have info in them.

Wasn't very useful, it turned out....but we felt we were being clever, lol.


Mike

[Johnh]

40 years later, I'm a part-time university engineering lecturer. The students also have to get their calcs approved and list them on the papers. Nearly all of them have Casio Fx 82 or 100. No programmables, and they don't use them anyway.

But seriously in the recent end of semester exams, it was for many students even in their final year, their first on-campus exam , on paper, in a room, since covid! No phones (or "phone a friend'), no laptops or tablets. Much different to the remote online tests they've had these last few years. There was much crashing and burning.....

[DA74254]

Calculators were allowed in primary school in 1982 in Norway. Though only from 8th grade (age 14) and as I remember, there were no restrictions whether programmable or not (I think the prices were restriction enough).
I started 8th grade in 1982, the very first year calcs were allowed. I had a Casio Fx-82. (It's been "borrowed" by my sister and it is still with her, functioning, on the original batteries..).
I used this calc throughout most of my schooldays, only to replace it with a HP 28S in 1992 when I started my last year in Ships Engineer education.
At that time, programmable calcs were not allowed, but my teacher said that if I was able to program it, using it and get the correct answers (via the programs), I had understood the subject well enough to not need a programmable calc. Hence, he allowed us to use prograsmmable calcs, and actually argumented with the National Exam Board for the calcs to be allowed.

[Marc van Lemmen]

Hi,

Back in highschool ( end '70 begin '80 ) I had a TI-57, later a Casio FX-602P. The teachers didn't know much about programmable calculators and only once i've been asked to show them my TI-57 turned off. But I had build a switch in it to turn off the display ( didn't know the trick to turn it off programmaticly ). By turning off the display I was able to enter a formula in it at home and use it a few hours later at school. Due to the limited memory of the TI-57, and the lack of alphabettical characters, I could not put much into it. Later I was no longer allowed to use the TI-57, so I switched the internals to a TI-33. I still have that TI-33 with a hole in the place of the on-off switch.
That was a different story with the 602P, I've put a lot of formulas in it, but by entering them into the calculator I also learned them and almost never used it. Somehow they never asked me about my Casio FX-602P !

Marc.

[lrdheat]

Trojdor…reminds me of police asking 2 friends and I what we were doing on various street intersections at ~midnight in Danbury, CT in 1971 during high school. I had won a grant from Stauffer Chemical Company to study nighttime heat island phenomena with a special interest in whether a dewpoint heat island might have coexisted with it. The police saw 3 teenagers on street corners holding something…it was an aspirated hand held psychrometer! They quickly gave us the green light to continue on our grid system route around the city! The heat island was quite pronounced, but we found no evidence of an “island” of higher dewpoints.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello,

I got my first calculator for school, which I attended in Italy, in 1976 or 77, a non-programmable scientific calculator Privileg 883 D-ESR-E (lots of numbers and letters for a time, when a four-digit number would have been enough to identify every pocket calculator ever put on the market). AFAIK we were allowed to use it in mathematics and physics exams without restictions. In 1978 I got a Ti-59, programmable and with "mass storage", depending on one's definition of "mass" which I used for the remainder of school and throughout university (in Germany). Again, without restrictions. I remember that I stored some equations and contants on magnetic cards but never needed to retrieve them in exams. It was not really important, because a correct number as result would probably fetch one point out of ten whereas the correct formulae and units would get you nine out of ten.

Regards
Max

[Matt Agajanian]

(12-28-2023 11:32 AM)Marc van Lemmen Wrote:  Hi,

Later I was no longer allowed to use the TI-57, so I switched the internals to a TI-33. I still have that TI-33 with a hole in the place of the on-off switch.
That was a different story with the 602P, I've put a lot of formulas in it, but by entering them into the calculator I also learned them and almost never used it. Somehow they never asked me about my Casio FX-602P !

Marc.

Hi Looking at the specs on datamath, the 33 seems quite limited especially with pending/parentheses levels. How did you manage using it despite its limitations?

[Marc van Lemmen]

(12-28-2023 08:53 PM)Matt Agajanian Wrote:  

(12-28-2023 11:32 AM)Marc van Lemmen Wrote:  Hi,

Later I was no longer allowed to use the TI-57, so I switched the internals to a TI-33. I still have that TI-33 with a hole in the place of the on-off switch.
That was a different story with the 602P, I've put a lot of formulas in it, but by entering them into the calculator I also learned them and almost never used it. Somehow they never asked me about my Casio FX-602P !

Marc.

Hi Looking at the specs on datamath, the 33 seems quite limited especially with pending/parentheses levels. How did you manage using it despite its limitations?

Hi, I pulled the pcb/display/keyboard from my 57 and put it in the 33 case. Since the on/off switch on a 33 is at the other side I had to make a hole in the 33 case for the on/off switch.
Later on I switched it back. I've sold the TI-57, but I still have the 33, with a hole at the right side below the display.
Marc.

[Matt Agajanian]

(12-28-2023 09:48 PM)Marc van Lemmen Wrote:  

(12-28-2023 08:53 PM)Matt Agajanian Wrote:  Hi Looking at the specs on datamath, the 33 seems quite limited especially with pending/parentheses levels. How did you manage using it despite its limitations?

Hi, I pulled the pcb/display/keyboard from my 57 and put it in the 33 case. Since the on/off switch on a 33 is at the other side I had to make a hole in the 33 case for the on/off switch.
Later on I switched it back. I've sold the TI-57, but I still have the 33, with a hole at the right side below the display.
Marc.

Sounds like a creative approach to a rebuild.

[pinkman]

In middle and high school in France during the 80’s, once the calculators were authorized for an exam (mathematics and physics) there were no restrictions about the type of calculator to use.
I had a Casio fx 7000g with 422 steps of memory, enough to enter a few formulas, but I don’t remember having used it very much during middle school. And the teachers thought it was programs! In high school we used intensively the calculators’memory to store information, and having a HP 28s was of a great help. But in fact, typing the formulas were the best way to learn them, and most of the time I used the calculator just for verification. A bit of cheating, but it was said that “they” did not care.
During university or engineering high school, the documents were often authorized, even if we continued storing data in our 28s or 48s/sx/g/gx.
If I understand the purpose of the exam mode that came later, it was more a question of equity than a problem with cheating: rich young students could buy a 48GX while other could just afford a basic scientific calculator.

[badaze]

In France, in the 1980’s, teachers were not really aware of the capabilities of programmable calculators or pocket basic computers.
I remember that I passed the Baccalaureat with a TI 57 LED. The programming helped me with a couple of exercises. Later, at the university in the mid 80’s, I used either a Casio FX 702P or a Sharp PC-1500A during maths exams. I was never asked to reset it or to remove the batteries. I clearly remember to have used the Sharp for matrix calculations. Very helpful to ensure that the different steps were correct.