Flush and recessed displays of hp 27s calculator.

[Rafa]

Does anyone have any information about the two versions hp 27s with different display? there are a similar two different displays in hp 42s, one flushed and other recessed, the latter has a better contrast and readability (there's a youtube video about the 42s comparing the two side by side).

Is the version of the 27s with the recessed display is also, like the 42s counterpart, better than the flushed version?

Any body knows anything about these two versions in hp 27s?

cheers.

[rprosperi]

Yes, the 27S as well as the 32S and 22S came in both flush and recessed bezel designs, same as the 42S. The recessed bezel came later in each case, though there's not enough samples of units with each type and S/N to know if they occurred at the same time; in all likelihood they probably did start at about the same time.

I have a 27S with recessed bezel, with S/N 3224S04180, and I definitely do find this display configuration/design to be easier to read than the original, flush style.

[Rafa]

(06-10-2024 01:56 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  I have a 27S with recessed bezel, with S/N 3224S04180, and I definitely do find this display configuration/design to be easier to read than the original, flush style.

hmmm, there was one with recessed bezel on ebay but i was a bit tardy to accept a price proposal so it was gone, i did however get one with a flush bezel. Ah well, i guess it will be ok. I wanted an algebraic calculator to use at school in place of the 20s. The memory of the 20s allows for one program and this gets erased when loading any of the built-in six programs!

I thought of the 42s but this fetches 3 to 4 times the price of a 27s and from what i could gather, it would be an overkill for me in terms of capabilities as i won't be needing them. An algebraic step up from the 20s is what i needed. Algebraic because in my class we reach for each other's calculators all the time and i would be exiled if i a bring an RPN calculator!

Do you like the 27s, and how do you rate it in general? it seems to me like it's trying to bridge the models from the lower and higher end of the pioneer series.

For whatever reason, it's near nonexistent in Europe, every 27s on offer i found on was from the US and they were getting sold fairly quick. Like not so quick that it would be snatched in a Blitzkrieg auction but it also wouldn't be ignored for too long once the price comes down to between 50 and 75 USD. i paid 55 USD. Did you get your for similar price?

[Allen]

(06-10-2024 02:24 PM)Rafa Wrote:  i would be exiled if i a bring an RPN calculator!

On the contrary, watching non-RPN users try to find the EQUALS key on my HP-3X or 4X calculator has been one of my greatest joys of doing math with other people. It gives me a chance to talk about the wander, mystery and efficiency of post-fix notation and all the many reasons it's superior.

[rprosperi]

I don't recall specific prices I paid for the 27S units I have, but likely in the $60-75 range, though I do recall one of them was probably listed by someone that had no idea what they were doing as I got it for about $30.

The 27S is an excellent machine! If it had RPN, it would be my daily carry machine, but alas... it doesn't.

The Pioneer Solver it has is a truly powerful and flexible tool, learn it and get to know its quirks early on and you will be a much happier user. Of course basic use of the solver is described in the owner's manual, but I suggest that once you know the basics, get the manual "Step-by-Step Solutions: Technical Applications (27S/19B)", which really does a far better job of demonstrating it's power, use and flexibility.

https://literature.hpcalc.org/items/1143

Enjoy your 27S!

[Steve Simpkin]

(06-11-2024 03:22 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  I don't recall specific prices I paid for the 27S units I have, but likely in the $60-75 range, though I do recall one of them was probably listed by someone that had no idea what they were doing as I got it for about $30.

The 27S is an excellent machine! If it had RPN, it would be my daily carry machine, but alas... it doesn't.

The Pioneer Solver it has is a truly powerful and flexible tool, learn it and get to know its quirks early on and you will be a much happier user. Of course basic use of the solver is described in the owner's manual, but I suggest that once you know the basics, get the manual "Step-by-Step Solutions: Technical Applications (27S/19B)", which really does a far better job of demonstrating it's power, use and flexibility.

https://literature.hpcalc.org/items/1143

Enjoy your 27S!

The above book, "Step-by-Step Solutions: Technical Applications (27S/19B)", was published by HP in 1988 and helped explain the advanced functionality of the Solver used in the HP-27S/HP-19B. While it was published by HP, it was actually written by Steven J. Sabin. As payment, he requested an HP-27S, HP-28S, and an infrared printer (HP-82240A), all of which he still has. Here are Steve's memories of writing that book.
https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-15...#pid149679

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(06-11-2024 03:22 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  The 27S is an excellent machine! If it had RPN, it would be my daily carry machine, but alas... it doesn't.

It is a good calculator but too much menu diving for my taste. I much prefer the HP-35s which is RPN but can be switched to ALG for the sake of your classmates. But don't buy the one that is currently being offered on eBay in Germany for 799,99 Euro which must be an all-time high.... If you want one I can sell you mine for the bargain price of 798,99 ;-)

And yes, for some reason the HP-27s never really made it into Europe. There are localised versions of the manual (at least there is a german version) but I have never seen the calculator being offered here. I got mine from the US and paid more for shipping and import duties than for the calculator itself.

Regards
Max

[Rafa]

(06-11-2024 03:22 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  The 27S is an excellent machine! If it had RPN, it would be my daily carry machine, but alas... it doesn't.

The Pioneer Solver it has is a truly powerful and flexible tool, learn it and get to know its quirks early on and you will be a much happier user. Of course basic use of the solver is described in the owner's manual, but I suggest that once you know the basics, get the manual "Step-by-Step Solutions: Technical Applications (27S/19B)", which really does a far better job of demonstrating it's power, use and flexibility.

https://literature.hpcalc.org/items/1143

Enjoy your 27S!

Thanks for the tip, its journey across the Atlantic will take 2-3 weeks. but i already downloaded the step by step manual.

[Rafa]

(06-11-2024 09:53 AM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  Hello!

And yes, for some reason the HP-27s never really made it into Europe. There are localised versions of the manual (at least there is a german version) but I have never seen the calculator being offered here. I got mine from the US and paid more for shipping and import duties than for the calculator itself.

Regards
Max

It is madness with the prices of hp 35s! i did get one as a present. i brought it a couple of times to class but the built quality, good in general, does not inspire the type of confidence that would let me relax while it's been handled by people who normally use cheap calculators and therefore regard the things as very dispensable. i would not tell them that, should the 35s gets broken, i would have to cough up anywhere between a 150 to 250€ for a second hand one! : )

The menus might be a nuisance to me as well but i think it's a matter of regular use. i got used to the 20s with everything on the keyboard, but i could see an advantage of less cluttered keyboard, especially if there are more features to pack in.
like you, i bought the 27s form the US and is coming with and english manual.

[Rafa]

(06-11-2024 02:00 AM)Allen Wrote:  On the contrary, watching non-RPN users try to find the EQUALS key on my HP-3X or 4X calculator has been one of my greatest joys of doing math with other people. It gives me a chance to talk about the wander, mystery and efficiency of post-fix notation and all the many reasons it's superior.

yeah that can be amusing, unfortunately very few were at all intrigued by the 35s in my class. People here go through every school stage being told exactly which calculator to buy, and sometimes the teacher even make the purchase for them. So i guess the relation with these devices tends to be utilitarian and joyless. up to 25 people using the exact same casio make the calculator a thing that you just fish out of your backpack and not a faithful companion through school and uni. No body bothers marking their casios, these get switched around like crazy, my hp 20s is the black sheep, the teacher calls it "der Gurkenrechner" alluding to its age, everyone knows who it belongs to. even the deriding nickname is better than the no name casios : )

[Vincent Weber]

(06-11-2024 03:22 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  I don't recall specific prices I paid for the 27S units I have, but likely in the $60-75 range, though I do recall one of them was probably listed by someone that had no idea what they were doing as I got it for about $30.

The 27S is an excellent machine! If it had RPN, it would be my daily carry machine, but alas... it doesn't.

The Pioneer Solver it has is a truly powerful and flexible tool, learn it and get to know its quirks early on and you will be a much happier user. Of course basic use of the solver is described in the owner's manual, but I suggest that once you know the basics, get the manual "Step-by-Step Solutions: Technical Applications (27S/19B)", which really does a far better job of demonstrating it's power, use and flexibility.

https://literature.hpcalc.org/items/1143

Enjoy your 27S!

I agree with every word, Bob.
That's why merging the 42S and the 27S in Plus42 was such a great idea

[Marco Polo]

(06-11-2024 09:53 AM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  And yes, for some reason the HP-27s never really made it into Europe. There are localised versions of the manual (at least there is a german version) but I have never seen the calculator being offered here. I got mine from the US and paid more for shipping and import duties than for the calculator itself.

I had a friend at the university (1988) who had a 27s, in Italy.
I don't remember if the manuals were localized

[franz.b]

(06-11-2024 08:08 PM)Marco Polo Wrote:  

(06-11-2024 09:53 AM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  And yes, for some reason the HP-27s never really made it into Europe. There are localised versions of the manual (at least there is a german version) but I have never seen the calculator being offered here. I got mine from the US and paid more for shipping and import duties than for the calculator itself.

I had a friend at the university (1988) who had a 27s, in Italy.
I don't remember if the manuals were localized

My father had a 27s (which I recently restored) purchased in Italy and with an Italian manual.

ciao!

[dmh]

My two 27S have the flush display with serials 2802A and 2821A (made in USA).

Were all the recessed versions made outside the USA maybe?

[rprosperi]

(06-12-2024 10:48 AM)dmh Wrote:  My two 27S have the flush display with serials 2802A and 2821A (made in USA).

Were all the recessed versions made outside the USA maybe?

I think this is the case, but not sure, data for more units is needed. It makes sense to go with a new design when setting up a new production facility rather than retooling an existing one, changing components / vendors, etc. but I have no facts to confirm such sensible conclusions.

[Rafa]

(06-12-2024 10:48 AM)dmh Wrote:  Were all the recessed versions made outside the USA maybe?

The 27s i was too slow to grab on ebay had a recessed bezel and was made in Singapore. The one i ended up buying has a flush bezel and is made in the US.

I've also see on offer a 27s with a flush bezel that's made in Singapore. So it might that the country of production is not enough a tell tale. the switch to recessed bezel might have happened while units were being made in both countries.

[Dave Britten]

$55 USD is a good price for a great calculator. The 27S might not be "programmable" in the traditional sense, but there are many use cases where the solver is quicker, easier, more intuitive, and more memory efficient than writing an RPN program. Of course, you're probably not going to want to try to use it to build a two-way ANOVA or something, but you could! Having the 27S as your primary calculator with the 20S for backup when you really just need to write a keystroke program is a good approach.

For reference, I have two of them, and they're both the older variety with the flush display lens. These seem to be much more numerous than the later version with recessed display area.

[Vincent Weber]

(06-12-2024 03:57 PM)Dave Britten Wrote:  $55 USD is a good price for a great calculator. The 27S might not be "programmable" in the traditional sense, but there are many use cases where the solver is quicker, easier, more intuitive, and more memory efficient than writing an RPN program. Of course, you're probably not going to want to try to use it to build a two-way ANOVA or something, but you could! Having the 27S as your primary calculator with the 20S for backup when you really just need to write a keystroke program is a good approach.

For reference, I have two of them, and they're both the older variety with the flush display lens. These seem to be much more numerous than the later version with recessed display area.

I use Plus42, so I have both worlds, which can be blended together (calling an equation from a RPN program and vice-versa) ?

[Rafa]

(06-12-2024 03:57 PM)Dave Britten Wrote:  $55 USD is a good price for a great calculator. The 27S might not be "programmable" in the traditional sense, but there are many use cases where the solver is quicker, easier, more intuitive, and more memory efficient than writing an RPN program. Of course, you're probably not going to want to try to use it to build a two-way ANOVA or something, but you could! Having the 27S as your primary calculator with the 20S for backup when you really just need to write a keystroke program is a good approach.

For reference, I have two of them, and they're both the older variety with the flush display lens. These seem to be much more numerous than the later version with recessed display area.

Yeah from what i read about it so far i think it's going to be really a treat to have and to use the 27s and exactly the perfect step up from the great little 20s. by the way you happened to be the one who contributed the prime factorisation program for the 20s? if so, thanks a lot : )

20s with a flush bezel? i've never seen one!
since you have both, do you mind if i sometime write you when i have a question about either? i still haven't got around to sit down and try to write my own keystroke program and relied on finding programs online. At the moment have some exams then summer break is in about a month, right about the time the 27s arrives from the US so i have then more time to learn about the 27s and also learn about how to write simply keystroke on the 20s.

[bxparks]

(06-12-2024 03:57 PM)Dave Britten Wrote:  $55 USD is a good price for a great calculator. The 27S might not be "programmable" in the traditional sense, but there are many use cases where the solver is quicker, easier, more intuitive, and more memory efficient than writing an RPN program.

The 27S is an algebraic calculator that's 35 years old. Besides nostalgia, I'm curious why someone would prefer the 27S over a modern algebraic calculator, for example, the Casio fx-9750GIII, which now sells for about $30 new. The 9750GIII handles everything that the 27S does, plus far more:

* multi-line LCD display
* Casio BASIC programming
* MicroPython programming
* CAS using KhiCAS addon
* graphing
* spreadsheets
* TVM
* general root solver, polynomial root solver
* complex numbers
* rational numbers
* base conversions (hex, oct, bin, dec)
* matrix, vectors, and simultaneous equations
* statistical analysis, curve fitting, statistical distributions
* standard AAA batteries (not the Li-Ion junk)
* and more...

I can understanding paying a little extra for an RPN scientific calculator, since those are no longer made. But a 35-year old algebraic calculator doesn't make sense to me.