[split] Mechanical Pencils and High Quality Lead

[Jase]

(10-05-2024 11:30 PM)Johnh Wrote:  It looks great! A really thoughtful product and isn't it great that 3d printing allows such items to be developed and offered in small batches?

I love those Rotrings too...

Yes, 3D printing has really improved in the last few years. Amazing, really. And I'm grateful for the 15c stand - it's perfect!



I love Rotring 600s, especially the 3-in-1 model featuring a 0.5mm pencil, black ink, and red or blue ink options. The black one pictured is a 600 3-in-1; the chrome is a regular 600 with 0.7mm lead. They're fantastic tools.

I buy 3-in-1s when they drop to $30–$35 on Amazon. Since you have to unscrew the barrel to replace the lead—unlike the regular 600 where you add lead from the top—I lightly lubricate the barrel threads with fine gun oil to prevent seizing over time.

I also swap out the default 0.5mm lead for Pentel Ain Stein HB or B2. The stock lead is hard and brittle, prone to tearing paper and breaking easily. High-quality, smooth lead eliminates these issues entirely.

These two tweaks make the 3-in-1 a perfect gift for engineers and mathematicians. I've given away about 20 over the last three years, and they're always a hit.

Jase.

[rprosperi]

(10-06-2024 12:54 AM)Jase Wrote:  I love Rotring 600s, especially the 3-in-1 model featuring a 0.5mm pencil, black ink, and red or blue ink options. The black one pictured is a 600 3-in-1; the chrome is a regular 600 with 0.7mm lead. They're fantastic tools.

I buy 3-in-1s when they drop to $30–$35 on Amazon. Since you have to unscrew the barrel to replace the lead—unlike the regular 600 where you add lead from the top—I lightly lubricate the barrel threads with fine gun oil to prevent seizing over time.

I also swap out the default 0.5mm lead for Pentel Ain Stein HB or B2. The stock lead is hard and brittle, prone to tearing paper and breaking easily. High-quality, smooth lead eliminates these issues entirely.

These two tweaks make the 3-in-1 a perfect gift for engineers and mathematicians. I've given away about 20 over the last three years, and they're always a hit.

Jase.

Do you have a link to such high quality lead? I also use 600's and my favorite which is a Pilot 3005 double-click retractable (aka 'double-knock') but these too suffer from the same issues with cheap lead.

I will also look for the triple 600's on Amazon, thanks for that tip.

[HPing]

I found the Pilot Dr. Grip has a fantastic grip. No pain or cramps on long writing sessions. I think the trick is the soft, wide gel grip skirts out but I'm sure there are more.

- I use the Dr. Grip 0.5mm pencils (one has a nifty shaker function to move lead forward and adds some weight).

- I also use Dr. Grip pens in 0.5mm which are very comfortable. The ink/ball is good but not incredible. I think the G2 has the best ink/ball in the business, irrespective of price.

- The Dr. Grip 4+1 combo units do not have the best pens and the ink supply is small. I'm not going to recommend this one.

These are amazing values in the $10 range. I have some that are 10 years old with no issues other than gel that has yellowed a bit. These are designed with the precision required for writing the small, detailed Kanji/Hanzi characters. Rotring also has some great pencils but my hand tends to cramp with smaller diameter pencils. YMMV

[johnb]

(10-06-2024 12:54 AM)Jase Wrote:  I love Rotring 600s, especially the 3-in-1 model featuring a 0.5mm pencil, black ink, and red or blue ink options. The black one pictured is a 600 3-in-1; the chrome is a regular 600 with 0.7mm lead. They're fantastic tools.

I buy 3-in-1s when they drop to $30–$35 on Amazon. Since you have to unscrew the barrel to replace the lead—unlike the regular 600 where you add lead from the top—I lightly lubricate the barrel threads with fine gun oil to prevent seizing over time.

I also swap out the default 0.5mm lead for Pentel Ain Stein HB or B2. The stock lead is hard and brittle, prone to tearing paper and breaking easily. High-quality, smooth lead eliminates these issues entirely.

These two tweaks make the 3-in-1 a perfect gift for engineers and mathematicians. I've given away about 20 over the last three years, and they're always a hit.

Jase.

Wonderful to find an intersection between calculator geeks and pen & pencil geeks!

I used to favor multipoint pen/pencils, but now that I'm no longer using a PDA that accepts a nylon stylus, I have less use for them. My current favorite pencil is a Pentel GraphGear 1000, which completely retracts the tip into the barrel so it doesn't poke me. My 2nd favorite is a Uni Kuru Toga Advance/Upgrade, with the W-speed engine that turns the lead for you! And I still have several of the discontinued Sanford Extend pencils lying around. Those are retractable too, but they are mostly plastic construction, unlike the GraphGear.

Oh, and Pentel Ain Stein leads are a life-changing experience. LOL!

I've actually stooped to using a 3B for most of my daily work: it's soft, bold, dark, and doesn't break.


I'm definitely a rollerball or gel pen guy for most of my workaday writing. However, I just found my father's circa-1950's Parker Model 21 fountain pen, still in excellent condition, and I'm strongly debating having it cleaned and refurbished. HP's may be old-school, but fountain pens are really old school! I may have to dust off my dad's slide rule, or go find a Curta!

[cdmackay]

I used a black 0.5mm Pentel P200 series in school, decades ago, and still use them now. Delighted they're still available. With Ain Stein leads.

[HPing]

My favourite eraser is the Pentel Ain Black. It is essentially dustless and does not seem to harden overtime (mine is 10 years old). It is not the absolute best at erasing but best overall IMHO.

The white plastic erasers might be slightly more effective but they produce more "dust". And start to harden after some time, losing effectiveness over a year or so. So buy smaller ones. I don't remember which was my favourite but I think it was the Pentel; the Tombow MONO and Staedtler are pretty good and easy to find.

The Japanese Yen has hit lows which drove the Plaza Accords of the 1980s. So Japanese stationery is excellent value IMHO.

[agarza]

(10-05-2024 11:30 PM)Johnh Wrote:  I love those Rotrings too...

I still use my RAPIDOMATIC 5640 (now Rotring).

[/quote]

[johnb]

(10-06-2024 04:00 AM)HPing Wrote:  I think the G2 has the best ink/ball in the business, irrespective of price.

I second that!

It turns out a Pilot G2 refill will fit a TŪL gel pen; I think that's a store brand of Office Depot. I have about a dozen of those pens and the original refill was pretty good, but for the price of 2-4 refills, I can get another dozen pens, which seems just wasteful and not at all environmentally friendly. The G2 refills are cheaper and better, and Uni-ball Signo refills are cheaper still (but not as excellent as the G2). I like the pens because they are plain, black, simple, understated, and professional. No cutesy pens for me, please... particularly not the ones that scream their brand name from across the room.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(10-07-2024 09:16 PM)johnb Wrote:  My 2nd favorite is a Uni Kuru Toga Advance/Upgrade, with the W-speed engine that turns the lead for you!

Out of curiosity I recently also bought one of these. But honestly, I don't notice any difference compared to non-rotating pencils.

Other than that, I mostly write with a fountain pen, usually a ca. 40 year old PaperMate. Since always. I don't use normal pallpoint pens at all because I hate what they do to the paper. And to the sheets of paper underneath the one I am writing on.

Regards
Max

[johnb]

(10-09-2024 10:49 AM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  

(10-07-2024 09:16 PM)johnb Wrote:  My 2nd favorite is a Uni Kuru Toga Advance/Upgrade, with the W-speed engine that turns the lead for you!

Out of curiosity I recently also bought one of these. But honestly, I don't notice any difference compared to non-rotating pencils.

I bet you are drawing or writing things that use long strokes. The mechanism relies upon you lifting the tip of the lead off the page and putting it down again. So it's good for drafting-style block lettering (i.e. all my writing, LOL), or math notation, or diagrams with a lot of short lines. For cursive, I don't think I'd see a difference at all!

Also, the Japanese discovered they needed to make a couple of models with a different engine (the W-speed) that turns the lead twice as fast for Western writers.

- - -

Bob mentioned the Pilot 3005. I've found very little online about this model, and I'm eager to learn more about it. I am on a quest for The Perfect Mechnical Pencil. If I cannot have perfection, then at least I might be able to find the Best in World, LOL.

[rprosperi]

(10-09-2024 08:29 PM)johnb Wrote:  Bob mentioned the Pilot 3005. I've found very little online about this model, and I'm eager to learn more about it. I am on a quest for The Perfect Mechnical Pencil. If I cannot have perfection, then at least I might be able to find the Best in World, LOL.

This is long discontinued, likely for decades. They used to be available in a few high end stationary stores here in the US, but I bought most of mine in Japan in the 90's. And in fact, I actually quoted the wrong model, but here is a H-3005 listed on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/305695081760

I actually meant to be saying a Pilot H-2105, seen here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204998508006

I confuse the model numbers because I consider the 2105 to be the clearly superior and more expensive model (as you can see...). The 3005 has a larger diameter grip area with the large ridges for gripping, while the 2105 has a very finely knurled metal grip area the same diameter as the shaft.

The 'entry level' for these double-click models, where the lead holder sleeve retracts into the body of the pencil, is the H-1005, which has a smooth plastic grip area, just like the body:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/305708029475

Other models existed in the same line, but I don't have any of the others. All models in this line share the same internal mechanism, so one's preference is really a simple matter of visual appeal and grip texture (and budget!).

These are all very nice writing instruments, and I'm ordering some of the Pentel Ain Stein HB leads to bring the experience to the next level.

High quality toys like this are sooo satisfying...

[Jase]

(10-09-2024 10:25 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  This is long discontinued, likely for decades. They used to be available in a few high end stationary stores here in the US, but I bought most of mine in Japan in the 90's...

These are all very nice writing instruments, and I'm ordering some of the Pentel Ain Stein HB leads to bring the experience to the next level.

High quality toys like this are sooo satisfying...

Wow! Those are beautiful, AND expensive.
You got me thinking... my wife and daughter are going to Japan in Nov. Maybe I can research between now and then and give them a short-list to be on the look-out for

PS - regarding quality lead - Yes, I learned the hard way, it makes all the difference!!

[johnb]

(10-10-2024 12:37 AM)Jase Wrote:  

(10-09-2024 10:25 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  ... and I'm ordering some of the Pentel Ain Stein HB leads to bring the experience to the next level. ...

PS - regarding quality lead - Yes, I learned the hard way, it makes all the difference!!

Interesting that we all seem unanimous in our preference for Ain Stein leads... with no mention of Nano Dia, "Uni" smudge-proof, or Koh-i-noor...

[HPing]

(10-10-2024 12:37 AM)Jase Wrote:  You got me thinking... my wife and daughter are going to Japan in Nov. Maybe I can research between now and then and give them a short-list to be on the look-out for

Hands (Formerly Tokyu Hands) has huge stores in Shinjuku & Shibuya. These are a great place for Stationery.

The big department stores (Bic Camera & Yodabashi Camera) also have a lot of stationery. I think the Akihabara locations might be the biggest but the Shinjuku ones are big too.

https://hands.net/goods/4902506280480/
https://www.biccamera.com/bc/item/3285968/
https://www.yodobashi.com/product/100000001001567013/

These shops don't typically carry hand-crafted or ultra-premium pens. But the selections are just staggering in number and quality.

If you want to buy from a US shop, I think Jet Pens has a nice site to rummage through (I have never purchased anything there). There is a lot more stuff in Japan, however.

https://www.jetpens.com/Pentel-Ain-Erase...ll/pd/6018

There are higher-end stationery stores littered all over Tokyo. But I don't remember the names.

Finally, 0.5 is the popular size in Japan; there are some 0.7 items but they are "uncommon" IME.

[rprosperi]

(10-10-2024 07:38 PM)HPing Wrote:  If you want to buy from a US shop, I think Jet Pens has a nice site to rummage through (I have never purchased anything there). There is a lot more stuff in Japan, however.

https://www.jetpens.com/Pentel-Ain-Erase...ll/pd/6018

Indeed, jetpens.com is excellent, if you're into pens, pencils or stationary or notebooks of any kind, you definitely should look here. I've purchased many (!) items from jetpens and they are as reliable and predictable as any other online retailer I've ever encountered and far better than most. Their prices and shipping costs are all reasonable and product selection wide and constantly expanding. Their videos are helpful except they tend to make you want more items... And if they are out of stock for some item, you can request to be notified when stock becomes available, and they really do notify you. I can't say enough good things about them, I only wish more online sellers were even nearly as good.

[Johnh]

Let's push this out a bit more, relating back to the Rotring 600's...

The ball pens and pencils are still available new, but for a few years until the late '90's, there was also a Rotring 600 fountain pen. I was a bit shocked at how many $ they go for these days.

Here's mine, with pencil, both bought in '97.

They are both beaten up over the years, But the pen works great and I like it best for engineering sketch diagrams. Pencil guidelines and dark ink hardines convey a concept clearly with some authority!

[rprosperi]

What is the indicator at the end of the pen cap for, to show the color (presumably black or blue) of the ink currently installed (analogous to the lead type indicator found on many pencils)?

Also, on the large Rotrings, I find the heavy cap often does not say as tight as I'd like when placed on the far end, when the pen is in use, it seems there should have been two rubber O-rings at different lengths to prevent the 'wobble' that takes place as the pen is handled.

But otherwise, yes indeed, seeing these opened my eyes - aha, other people get how engineers want pens and pencils to look and feel. So they got (and possibly still will get) some of my money.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(10-12-2024 11:51 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  ...aha, other people get how engineers want pens and pencils to look and feel.

I'm an engineer too (at least according to some papers they gave me long ago), but I consider these far too substantial (heavy and thick) for my taste. I prefer them light and rather "filigree", also I would never use a 0.7mm pencil, 0.5 at maximum but preferably 0.3mm. And I would never put the cap onto any pen when writing because I like them nose-heavy.

This is my red all-aluminium Rotring pencil, according to Google image search possible an "Esprit" model, that I bought at our university stationary shop in 1989, the day my ph.d. grant was approved. I thought: "I will need a good pencil for the next 3-5 years (in the end it toke more like 10 years...) so I better spend a little more!". I still use it, but the auto-advance mechanism is not performing very well any more. But that's not important because now I mostly use my fountain pen anyway which must be 5 years older.

Regards
Max

(My phone got the colors very wrong, the fountain pen is not burgundy but dark brown!)

[Johnh]

(10-12-2024 11:51 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  What is the indicator at the end of the pen cap for, to show the color (presumably black or blue) of the ink currently installed (analogous to the lead type indicator found on many pencils)?

The indicator ring can be set to indicate the width of the nib, so B fir Broad in my case. It's trying to follow a design that probably makes more sense when it's for pencil leads, since it's not intended to keep changing the pen nib. The cap seals and seats well, but I leave it off when in use just for the balance.

[HPing]

(10-12-2024 05:14 AM)Johnh Wrote:  The ball pens and pencils are still available new, but for a few years until the late '90's, there was also a Rotring 600 fountain pen. I was a bit shocked at how many $ they go for these days.

Those Rotring fountain pens were expensive then too. But prices have gotten out of control, alas.

(10-12-2024 11:51 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  Also, on the large Rotrings, I find the heavy cap often does not say as tight as I'd like when placed on the far end, when the pen is in use, it seems there should have been two rubber O-rings at different lengths to prevent the 'wobble' that takes place as the pen is handled.

Do you know the model with the o-ring problem?

The local auto parts wholesaler (not parts retailer) has cases of o-rings but maybe too big

A few local watch shops do watch repairs (and pen repairs on the side). They have lots of o-rings but maybe too small.