WP-34s Emulator v3.2

[Bernhard]

Hi there. I used the Emulator for the first time today. Win 7 32bit. Version 3.2

I have used RPN Calcs before. Most basic input 3 ENTER; 2 ENTER; +

The problem is that it sets Regsiters X and Y to the Number I entered before the ENTER, meaning that I get 4 as a result of the example above.

looking like that, before I hit +

x: 2
y: 2
z: 3

help appreciated, I am sure there is a setting for that, right?

Regards

[Paul Dale]

3 ENTER 2 +

The second ENTER is causing your problem.


- Pauli

[Bernhard]

So my RPN skills were a bit confused. Thanks!!!

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(01-02-2014 11:59 AM)Bernhard Wrote:  I have used RPN Calcs before. Most basic input 3 ENTER; 2 ENTER; +

Well, maybe you were used to RPL calcs...

[Thomas Klemm]

(01-02-2014 06:10 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  

(01-02-2014 11:59 AM)Bernhard Wrote:  I have used RPN Calcs before. Most basic input 3 ENTER; 2 ENTER; +

Well, maybe you were used to RPL calcs...

(12-18-2013 09:32 PM)eri Wrote:  I'm finding it tough to break the habit of hitting enter after each entry.

I'd never use that 2nd ENTER. It's like adding parentheses where they can be omitted. Never had a problem with that on the HP-48 but I was used to the HP-41. So maybe the transition into this direction is easier?

What I don't understand is the use of RPN vs. RPL. Both HP-41 and HP-48 use RPN. It's a notation. Thus both are RPN calculators.
RPL is a language. You can compare that to FOCAL if you want.

Cheers
Thomas

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(01-02-2014 09:45 PM)Thomas Klemm Wrote:  I'd never use that 2nd ENTER. It's like adding parentheses where they can be omitted.

Neither would I

(01-02-2014 09:45 PM)Thomas Klemm Wrote:  Never had a problem with that on the HP-48 but I was used to the HP-41. So maybe the transition into this direction is easier?

What I don't understand is the use of RPN vs. RPL. Both HP-41 and HP-48 use RPN. It's a notation. Thus both are RPN calculators.
RPL is a language. You can compare that to FOCAL if you want.

Cheers
Thomas

On a 28/48/49/50 you can input 3 ENTER 2 ENTER + and have 5 for an answer. Unlike on RPN machines where you have no input line and work on register X directly and the second ENTER copies X in Y.

[Paul Dale]

Nope, the second ENTER is optional on RPL machines. RPL isn't as bad as you make out


Pauli

[Marcus von Cube]

I'm speaking of RPN and RPL both as languages here...

In an RPL program, ENTER does not appear as a command as in classic RPN. If you press ENTER on an empty entry line, you'll get DUP. It's just a shortcut.

If you put in 1 ENTER 2 ENTER + on an RPL machine the code executed is 1 2 +. ENTER just terminates the digit entry.

The same input on the 34S (or a 35) yields 1 ENTER^ 2 +. ENTER^ is in fact the same as the DUP command in RPL. The equivalent of separating the two numbers 1 and 2 by a space in RPL is ENTER^ in RPN.

In RPN, 10 ENTER^ * yields 100 (10^2). This makes some functions, such as x^2, expendable as keyboard functions for most manual calculations on the classic machines. To achieve the same in RPL, 10 DUP * is the correct way to go. This can be entered as 10 ENTER ENTER + in direct mode. In a program, you'll need the explicit stack manipulation command DUP.

[Thomas Klemm]

(01-03-2014 12:06 PM)Marcus von Cube Wrote:  In RPN, 10 ENTER^ * yields 100 (10^2). This makes some functions, such as x^2, expendable as keyboard functions for most manual calculations on the classic machines. To achieve the same in RPL, 10 DUP + is the correct way to go. This can be entered as 10 ENTER ENTER + in direct mode. In a program, you'll need the explicit stack manipulation command DUP.

Why +? Typo?

The equivalent of DUP in a FOCAL program is RCL X. But that takes 2 bytes and isn't available on all machines. So you use ENTER and hope the next command enables the stack lift. Otherwise a RCL 00 following directly the ENTER will just overwrite X instead of inserting the value.
In this situation I often used some command like CLA that was needed somewhere else but didn't make much sense at that specific line:

ENTER
CLA
RCL 00

This little hack makes it difficult to understand and maintain the code later. I often would have preferred to just use:

DUP
RCL 00

A similar thing is with CLX. In a program you generally don't want to disable the stack lift. I see that as the biggest drawbacks of ENTER in FOCAL programs.

Cheers
Thomas

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(01-03-2014 02:09 PM)Thomas Klemm Wrote:  The equivalent of DUP in a FOCAL program is RCL X. But that takes 2 bytes and isn't available on all machines.

Sorry? FOCAL (as long as HP calculators are concerned) stands for Forty-One CAlculator Language. We can count in the 42s as well...

How's that RCL X isn't available on all (41C-CV-CX,42) machines?

[Marcus von Cube]

(01-03-2014 02:09 PM)Thomas Klemm Wrote:  Why +? Typo?

Typo! Corrected.

RCL X isn't exacly the same as ENTER^ because RPN has the concept of stack lift enable/disable which is alien to RPL. ENTER^ leaves stack lift disabled which makes it work as DUP in all cases except when followed by a number. RPN is not always easier then RPL.

[Thomas Klemm]

(01-03-2014 06:38 PM)Marcus von Cube Wrote:  ENTER^ leaves stack lift disabled which makes it work as DUP in all cases except when followed by a number.

The same happens with RCL nn and LASTX.

[Didier Lachieze]

(01-03-2014 06:02 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  How's that RCL X isn't available on all (41C-CV-CX,42) machines?

It is: [RCL] [.] [X] on 41, [RCL] [.] [ST X] on 42

[Thomas Klemm]

(01-03-2014 06:02 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  How's that RCL X isn't available on all (41C-CV-CX,42) machines?

I consider the operations available in the HP-11C or HP-15C a subset of FOCAL. That isn't correct in all cases. The HP-41 doesn't provide RCL-arithmetic while the HP-15C or the HP-42S does. Nevertheless most of the programs can be translated without much effort from one model to another. Exceptions are RCL/STO stack-operations wich are missing in the voyagers.
The best I come up with for an equivalent of DUP that works on all models is:

ENTER
X<>Y

Cheers
Thomas

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(01-04-2014 12:05 AM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:  

(01-03-2014 06:02 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  How's that RCL X isn't available on all (41C-CV-CX,42) machines?

It is: [RCL] [.] [X] on 41, [RCL] [.] [ST X] on 42

Didier, I know it is, that was the point...
Just a rhetorical question.

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(01-04-2014 12:27 AM)Thomas Klemm Wrote:  

(01-03-2014 06:02 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  How's that RCL X isn't available on all (41C-CV-CX,42) machines?

I consider the operations available in the HP-11C or HP-15C a subset of FOCAL. That isn't correct in all cases.

Ok but, in my opinion, FOCAL should be confined to the 41 (and 42) series.

Ciao Thomas!

[Marcus von Cube]

(01-04-2014 12:04 AM)Thomas Klemm Wrote:  

(01-03-2014 06:38 PM)Marcus von Cube Wrote:  ENTER^ leaves stack lift disabled which makes it work as DUP in all cases except when followed by a number.

The same happens with RCL nn and LASTX.

Are you sure? RCL (and LastX) should leave stack lift enabled, not disabled. That's exactly the difference between RCL X and ENTER^.

[Thomas Klemm]

(01-04-2014 07:53 PM)Marcus von Cube Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 12:04 AM)Thomas Klemm Wrote:  The same happens with RCL nn and LASTX.

Are you sure? RCL (and LastX) should leave stack lift enabled, not disabled. That's exactly the difference between RCL X and ENTER^.

Sorry, I meant that the same happens when ENTER is followed by RCL nn or LASTX.
So you can add these two to the list of exceptions.