HP calculator geneology

[Han]

Could someone give a quick "geneology" or "family tree" of the various HP calculators. For example, the HP48G series was a direct descendant of the HP48S series, and the HP49G of the HP48G series. Is there some place where I may find the entire family tree of HP's calculators and handhelds?

[rprosperi]

(02-03-2015 08:08 PM)Han Wrote:  Could someone give a quick "geneology" or "family tree" of the various HP calculators. For example, the HP48G series was a direct descendant of the HP48S series, and the HP49G of the HP48G series. Is there some place where I may find the entire family tree of HP's calculators and handhelds?

Wow, that would indeed be interesting to examine.

You will need to clarify what you mean by "direct dedcendent" though... (emphasis addded) For example, the HP-38 family (all the way to the 39/40GS I think) are all RPL-based internally, but are vastly different from the 48/49/50 series. Are these descendents?

And both of these lines follow from the 28 series. As were the 18C/19B/19BII.

And all the Pioneers too.

And RPL evolved from the 71 Forth ROM.

So it depends on what you mean by descended.

But real interested to see replies here.

[Han]

(02-03-2015 08:19 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  

(02-03-2015 08:08 PM)Han Wrote:  Could someone give a quick "geneology" or "family tree" of the various HP calculators. For example, the HP48G series was a direct descendant of the HP48S series, and the HP49G of the HP48G series. Is there some place where I may find the entire family tree of HP's calculators and handhelds?

Wow, that would indeed be interesting to examine.

You will need to clarify what you mean by "direct dedcendent" though... (emphasis addded) For example, the HP-38 family (all the way to the 39/40GS I think) are all RPL-based internally, but are vastly different from the 48/49/50 series. Are these descendents?

And both of these lines follow from the 28 series. As were the 18C/19B/19BII.

And all the Pioneers too.

And RPL evolved from the 71 Forth ROM.

So it depends on what you mean by descended.

But real interested to see replies here.

Haha! I'm not even sure what I mean my "descended" to be quite honest. That's why I picked the more "obvious" examples :-) I think the 39/40GS were "descendants of the HP38G, which was a descendant of the HP48G. My own personal interpretation is that they shared ROM source. The HP48G built upon the ROM from the HP48S. The HP38G used the HP48G ROM and added stuff (applets) as well as removed stuff (eq lib, ports, etc).

That said, I'm open to any reasonable interpretation of "descendant" -- I'm mostly interested in how these calculators are related. I learned recently that the 71B had its sources available so I went ahead and bought a copy of the MoHPC documents to see for myself how of the original code stayed in the later models.

[Massimo Gnerucci]

Here you can find a possible path upto 38G

HTH

[Han]

(02-03-2015 09:17 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  Here you can find a possible path upto 38G

HTH

Very nice find!

[Geoff Quickfall]

One answer!

Wlodek's book:

http://www.hpcalculatorguide.com

Cheers, Geoff[/align]

[Sylvain Cote]

(02-04-2015 01:59 AM)Geoff Quickfall Wrote:  One answer!

Wlodek's book:

http://www.hpcalculatorguide.com

Cheers, Geoff[/align]

Agreed!
Great from cover to cover.
Read it several times. 8-)
Sylvain

[rprosperi]

(02-03-2015 09:17 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  Here you can find a possible path upto 38G

HTH

Nice find Massimo, thanks for that! I thought I had crawled all through this site, but it appears not. Excellent news!

[rprosperi]

(02-04-2015 01:59 AM)Geoff Quickfall Wrote:  Wlodek's book:

http://www.hpcalculatorguide.com

Yes, I thoroughly agree too. It does not have a family tree in the graphical sense, but probably has more HP calc info than any other single source. Very readable style, but packed with lots of useful and interesting facts and history.

Right up there with the MoHPC USB drive in the "must have" category.

[rprosperi]

(02-03-2015 09:13 PM)Han Wrote:  

(02-03-2015 08:19 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Wow, that would indeed be interesting to examine.

You will need to clarify what you mean by "direct dedcendent" though... (emphasis addded) For example, the HP-38 family (all the way to the 39/40GS I think) are all RPL-based internally, but are vastly different from the 48/49/50 series. Are these descendents?

And both of these lines follow from the 28 series. As were the 18C/19B/19BII.

And all the Pioneers too.

And RPL evolved from the 71 Forth ROM.

So it depends on what you mean by descended.

But real interested to see replies here.

Haha! I'm not even sure what I mean my "descended" to be quite honest. That's why I picked the more "obvious" examples :-) I think the 39/40GS were "descendants of the HP38G, which was a descendant of the HP48G. My own personal interpretation is that they shared ROM source. The HP48G built upon the ROM from the HP48S. The HP38G used the HP48G ROM and added stuff (applets) as well as removed stuff (eq lib, ports, etc).

That said, I'm open to any reasonable interpretation of "descendant" -- I'm mostly interested in how these calculators are related. I learned recently that the 71B had its sources available so I went ahead and bought a copy of the MoHPC documents to see for myself how of the original code stayed in the later models.

Someone (Tim?, Cyrille?, don't recall) mentioned once that almost all the core math function code for all the Saturn machines has changed very little since the original 71 code. Of course the OS itself is totally different comparing the 71 mainframe with RPL, but as noted earlier you should check out the 71 Forth ROM IDS when you get the USB drive; you will immediately see the core similarities.

[Thomas Radtke]

(02-03-2015 09:17 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  Here you can find a possible path upto 38G

The 32S is shown as descendant of the 27S. I strongly disagree to this and other branches in this diagram.

[cyrille de brébisson]

Hello,

I fully agree with those saying that the diagram is at least partially incorrect.

The HP71 is an ancestor of the 48 series as most of the math code (real math function) was created for the HP71. So there is a link missing there.

The 19 and 17 (and 18?) are also linked with the 48 as they are RPL based.

Now, it is true that the question is confusing. Are we talking about a technical derivation or a function/feature derivation? this probably would yeild to 2 different graphs.

cyrille

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(02-04-2015 06:50 AM)Thomas Radtke Wrote:  

(02-03-2015 09:17 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  Here you can find a possible path upto 38G

The 32S is shown as descendant of the 27S. I strongly disagree to this and other branches in this diagram.

That's why I used possible... ;)

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(02-04-2015 01:59 AM)Geoff Quickfall Wrote:  One answer!

Wlodek's book:

http://www.hpcalculatorguide.com

Cheers, Geoff[/align]

That's true, of course, even though you won't find a genealogical tree chart (but I don't have the 2013 edition).

I think this is an interesting topic and we could share our thoughts about it: how the lines have crossed and merged during product evolution.

Target: a nicer chart than an ASCII one. :)

[PANAMATIK]

(02-04-2015 07:27 AM)cyrille de brébisson Wrote:  Hello,

I fully agree with those saying that the diagram is at least partially incorrect.

Now, it is true that the question is confusing. Are we talking about a technical derivation or a function/feature derivation? this probably would yeild to 2 different graphs.

cyrille

Hello

The diagram is not only partially incorrect, it is also missing some rare not well known models. There was for example the HP-25 light, which was HPs early approach for voice entry in the late 70s.

   

It was of course a direct descendant of the HP-25.

Bernhard

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(02-04-2015 10:40 AM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  

(02-04-2015 07:27 AM)cyrille de brébisson Wrote:  Hello,

I fully agree with those saying that the diagram is at least partially incorrect.

Now, it is true that the question is confusing. Are we talking about a technical derivation or a function/feature derivation? this probably would yeild to 2 different graphs.

cyrille

Hello

The diagram is not only partially incorrect, it is also missing some rare not well known models. There was for example the HP-25 light, which was HPs early approach for voice entry in the late 70s.



It was of course a direct descendant of the HP-25. :)

Bernhard

I only see a trunc(HP-25)... :)

[PANAMATIK]

(02-04-2015 11:28 AM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  I only see a trunc(HP-25)... :)

The f INT function was used, trunc() was not yet invented.

"left is right and right is wrong" doesn't matter in this model. :)

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(02-04-2015 11:47 AM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  

(02-04-2015 11:28 AM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  I only see a trunc(HP-25)... :)

The f INT function was used, trunc() was not yet invented.

Ok...

(02-04-2015 11:47 AM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  "left is right and right is wrong" doesn't matter in this model. :)

For ENTER^, at least, yes. :D

[PANAMATIK]

(02-04-2015 12:32 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  For ENTER^, at least, yes.

OK...

[TomC]

The 45 was derived from the 35, then the 65 from that! etc...

TomC