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Tim Wessman · 05-14-2015, 12:42 AM

This is by far my favorite feature in the new version.

Go into the function app plot view, press the on screen MENU button->FCN->Sketch. Now draw using your finger! Smile

ArielPalazzesi · 05-14-2015, 01:01 AM

Nice!

Thanks for this great work.

salvomic · 05-14-2015, 09:07 AM

(05-14-2015 12:42 AM)Tim Wessman Wrote: This is by far my favorite feature in the new version.

Go into the function app plot view, press the on screen MENU button->FCN->Sketch. Now draw using your finger!

nice and powerful!
I tried with something like hyperbola and a menu asked to pick for A*LN(X)+B or A*X2+B*X+C!

CR Haeger · 05-14-2015, 10:46 AM

Tim thanks - it's pretty neat.

For next update consider letting user populate XY graph with "dots" by finger and having the Prime offer regression curves. To me this would be a killer STATS class app and find use in technical fields.

Nigel (UK) · 05-14-2015, 11:31 AM

(05-14-2015 01:01 AM)ArielPalazzesi Wrote: Nice!

Thanks for this great work.

Absolutely. Thanks also for allowing columns to be renamed in the Statistics2Var app and for allowing extra columns. This makes a huge difference!

Nigel (UK)

iconmaster · 05-14-2015, 06:37 PM

I didn't know I wanted this, but I did.

I like how it animates when you have a choice.

What is the range of things it can detect? Seems good, but I know it could be expanded.

Tim Wessman · 05-14-2015, 07:52 PM

Quick start guide explains it. Basically though, ln, exp, linear, quadratic and sin are the 5 that we started with.

salvomic · 05-14-2015, 07:55 PM

(05-14-2015 07:52 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote: Quick start guide explains it. Basically though, ln, exp, linear, quadratic and sin are the 5 that we started with.

and already it's wonderful!
As other user said in another post, it would be nice also could "tap" some point with finger then have an interpolation of the curve (more precise, maybe)...
In the future :-)

Salvo

leprechaun · 05-14-2015, 08:32 PM

If you want to do actual curveefitting isn't the statistical 2 var app the tool of choice? I meant the discussed feature is cool no doubt. But in terms of practical use i don't get the point....
Why did HP implement it? What benefits (besides from having a cool toy) did you have in mind? I am really curious

CR Haeger · (This post was last modified: 05-14-2015 09:07 PM by CR Haeger.)

(05-14-2015 08:32 PM)leprechaun Wrote: If you want to do actual curveefitting isn't the statistical 2 var app the tool of choice? I meant the discussed feature is cool no doubt. But in terms of practical use i don't get the point....
Why did HP implement it? What benefits (besides from having a cool toy) did you have in mind? I am really curious

Of course "actual" curve-fitting is needed - and is provided.

As a learning tool, students may benefit by creating their own data points both by entering into a data table AND by placing points by hand on a graph.

Tim Wessman · (This post was last modified: 05-15-2015 03:02 AM by Tim Wessman.)

(05-14-2015 08:32 PM)leprechaun Wrote: Why did HP implement it? What benefits (besides from having a cool toy) did you have in mind? I am really curious

Four reasons primarily.

1. It *is* really cool. I've seen students and even people who say they hate math sit and play with it for 20 or 30 minutes exploring what it does and how the numbers relate in the equations. That is actually a really compelling reason right there.
2. Being able to very quickly generate some equations for doing demonstrations in a classroom. It makes it very quick to create demos for things like intersections, area between some curves, etc. Teachers at NCTM for example went crazy for this one feature!
3. There is something very powerful in being able to work math concepts from different directions. For example, some students have a very hard time understanding the connection between "this is an equation" and "this is a picture of that equation". Not being able to do the reverse operation, namely, "I'm using my finger to draw a picture" and seeing "oh look! There is the 'math' to make my picture" means that you might not be able to connect that concept for some students. The recommended way of teaching math is introducing that there are different ways of looking at concepts using numbers, equations and graphical representations - and that is the *entire* design philosophy in Prime. This is just a further extension of that and an extension of our goal to allow working the problems in all directions.

You just have to be careful to not *over do* it. This is where something like the nspire falls down hard. Connection between objects are made silently in the back and it is very difficult to understand that there is a connection, why it is there, and very easy to mess things up. For example, you can just "drag" your data point in the statistics plot and it modifies your original data! While that can be useful to explore how outlier impact things, it can give students the idea that they should just "adjust the data" until things look good. While that may be the way they want MBAs to think.... I don't think it is good for learning math. Smile

4. This is setup for even greater things later. :-)

Tim Wessman · 05-15-2015, 02:56 AM

(05-14-2015 08:59 PM)CR Haeger Wrote:
(05-14-2015 08:32 PM)leprechaun Wrote: If you want to do actual curveefitting isn't the statistical 2 var app the tool of choice? I meant the discussed feature is cool no doubt. But in terms of practical use i don't get the point....
Why did HP implement it? What benefits (besides from having a cool toy) did you have in mind? I am really curious

Of course "actual" curve-fitting is needed - and is provided.

As a learning tool, students may benefit by creating their own data points both by entering into a data table AND by placing points by hand on a graph.

I agree completely. I definitely would like to get that capability in there in the future as well. See #3 in my post prior to this one for more details around that.

Michael de Estrada · 05-15-2015, 03:20 AM

Although I'm not a teacher or parent, and certainly not a student, I can appreciate the sophistication of this feature and its potential to advance the functionality of this machine beyond a simple programmable calculator. Now, if you could just add voice recognition then you will really have something.

leprechaun · (This post was last modified: 05-15-2015 05:46 AM by leprechaun.)

Thanks for the information! From that point it is understandable. Does ti and casio offer such a concept? [/quote]
I did not think of lower grade students. The first thing that came to mind was: well I have a mathematical model it is somehow dictated by physics-I know about the function. If I have no model in mind how cool would it be If the calc was smarter than me... But a dumb calculator Will never be smarter than the human.

I am still not used to expect low grades buying such powerful and expensive calculators...

Edit: i would have gone made in a test if People had calculators with voice recognition. ;-)

leprechaun · 05-15-2015, 07:19 AM

I thought about the above said a little more and an other question came up I would like to ask.

Tim, you guys at HP seem to do a lot of meetings and discussions with so-called experts in both business and education. I don't envy you.
Most decisions have to be based on economical considerations and educational ideas. I think of the function app again.
I am no teacher but have some experience with kids having problems. If I leave math class and join physics class: you can enter an equation in the app having 'X' to be the independant variable. However in physics it is very much more likely to have, say 't' in the texbook. Not even 'T' but 't'. The student has to understand and the student must be able to replace the needed variable with 'X'... That is not as easy as it sounds for some. You cannot compare the entered equation with what is shown in the textbook. It looks different.
It is easier to enter the equation as seen and tell the app, hey 't' varies in that equation I define 't' in the indep-field. (If different from 'X' one cpuled easily keep 'X' as default all over the place for math-class convenience)

On purpose I am not talking about smooth and nice interaction of cas and app or what people sometimes complained. Although a plotfunc() command behind the function app which defaults to 'X' and could be used and make cas integration easier.

Thanks a lot! I like to learn about what you think and your priorisation of todo tasks.

ww63 · 05-15-2015, 11:48 AM

When i try to sketch a hyperbolic function (like 1/x) it only finds a logarithmic or quadratic function, but no hyperbolic.

I think, you should add theese functional call too.

Eddie W. Shore · 05-16-2015, 01:02 AM

Blown away. It is like watching functions come to life.

Spybot · (This post was last modified: 05-17-2015 04:28 PM by Spybot.)

Thank you very much HP Team!

Amazing new feature... no wonder why the HP Prime is my favorite.

Tugdual · 05-16-2015, 09:53 PM

I haven't seen the feature in action since I no longer have a prime and have no access to an emulator now but, from the little I understand, I don't understand the interest for this feature? Even for pedagogic reasons. What purpose is this supposed to serve?

Joe Horn · 05-17-2015, 04:06 AM

(05-16-2015 09:53 PM)Tugdual Wrote: I haven't seen the feature in action since I no longer have a prime and have no access to an emulator now but, from the little I understand, I don't understand the interest for this feature? Even for pedagogic reasons. What purpose is this supposed to serve?

One very good purpose: To encourage students to PLAY with graphing. Seriously! A good way to learn how to use any HP calculator is to read the manual and do the examples in it, but the BEST way to REALLY learn it is to PLAY with it. I'm sure every MoHPC member would agree with me on that; people who spend time playing with their calculators know them far better than those for whom it is merely a tool. In general, the best way to learn ANYTHING (including math) is by playing with it. So anything that encourages students to play with math is a teacher's dream come true.