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setq · 01-23-2017, 01:07 PM

Hello all,

Potential new HP calculator user here. I mainly use a Casio FX991-ES PLUS for electrical engineering work. It does most of what I need but I really want something with rudimentary programming ability to automate a few tasks which I do regularly. Nothing complicated. The Casio programmables don't cut it really. However after playing with a friend's HP 41 and 48, I'm slightly hooked on RPN/RPL machines. It works how my brain does.

I don't use the Casio for a whole lot, mainly unit conversion, basic calculations (engineering units, trig, polar vecotrs, no calculus) and the solver.

So the question is, ignoring the vintage calculators as I want a new one, which one is likely to benefit me the most: the HP 50G, the HP35s or the Prime?

I'm edging towards the 35s at the moment as 50g's RPL programming is significantly more complicated. That is manageable but I'd rather have something that fits in my head looking at the programming manual for it!

Anything I need to know?

Maximilian Hohmann · 01-23-2017, 04:33 PM

Hello!

(01-23-2017 01:07 PM)setq Wrote: I'm edging towards the 35s at the moment as 50g's RPL programming is significantly more complicated.

That would be my choice as well. Much quicker for doing a calculation here or there or program a short equation.

The Hp35s is known to have a few bugs and problems, apart from having no mass storage or connectivity. For me the two most annoying issues are short battery life - mine lasts about two months without ever touching it. Reading the posts in this forum, this is specific to certain production batches. Others seem to have rather normal battery lifes. The other is the occasional total hang-up which requires a reset. Both conditions, battery drain and hang-ups, make you lose the contents of the memory so I wouldn't use it to write longer programs or store more than just a few conversion factors.

And regarding the Hp50, my personal alternative - I know, this is heresy here - would be a Ti89 or Voyage 200. Instead of the awkward RPL (you either love it or you hate it...) they are programmed in Basic.

Regards
Max

Dave Britten · 01-23-2017, 04:50 PM

(01-23-2017 04:33 PM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote: And regarding the Hp50, my personal alternative - I know, this is heresy here - would be a Ti89 or Voyage 200. Instead of the awkward RPL (you either love it or you hate it...) they are programmed in Basic.

Not a totally ridiculous suggestion, though I wouldn't recommend the 89 for day-to-day number crunching. They took the 92 Plus OS, which was heavily designed around having a full QWERTY keyboard present, and crammed it into a more traditional calculator layout. There are some very odd omissions on the keyboard that force you to go digging through menus, and the alpha key arrangement is rather bizarre, with X, Y, Z, and T being pulled out from the rest of the flow. It all makes it very unpleasant to do basic calculation, though programming isn't too bad if you can get ahold of one of the external keyboards that TI used to sell.

I would opt for the Voyage 200, which doesn't suffer from the crippled keyboard. Either model has a very nice programming system, though.

Now, the HP 48 is pretty much the king of unit conversions, and the 50 should be about the same in that regard. Personally, I find he 48 a lot more pleasant to use, as it has much better keyboard and menu layouts, and a 48SX is what I keep on my desk.

You may also want to take a look at what Swiss Micros is doing. The DM41L is a (faster) clone of the 41CX, and they've got the DM42 coming out likely this year, which will be like a 42S on steroids (it's running Free42 with customizations under the hood, so no hardware emulation overhead).

Logan · 01-23-2017, 06:04 PM

After being in a similar situation last year, I settled on the 42s as pretty much close to my perfect calculator, though I wanted a smaller package than a graphing calculator. If I want to graph stuff, I'll use MATLAB.

The DM 42 should be coming out soon and it promises to be fantastic. The 35s has some good quick and dirty programming, but you're really limited on variable names.

rwiker · 01-24-2017, 05:43 AM

(01-23-2017 06:04 PM)Logan Wrote: After being in a similar situation last year, I settled on the 42s as pretty much close to my perfect calculator, though I wanted a smaller package than a graphing calculator. If I want to graph stuff, I'll use MATLAB.

I wholeheartedly concur with the recommendation for the HP42s – I got one a few months then, and it's my current favourite for whatever calculation tasks I need to do (which are not overly complicated, so the 42s is quite likely overkill).

grsbanks · 01-24-2017, 10:07 AM

I can echo the recommendation of the HP-42S as I used one for years (still have it). It took a beating over the years and the paint has flaked off the front plate in some areas Smile

However, don't discount the HP-48G/S or HP 50g just yet. Their RPL may be a bit more cumbersome than what the HP-35S uses but it's worth it. Plus, you can write your stuff on a desktop computer, test/debug it with an emulator and then transfer it to a physical machine once you're satisfied that it's up to scratch.

Even though the HP 50g is technically an emulator itself (an ARM system emulating a Saturn chip) it is significantly faster than the HP-48 series. I have a 48GX and a 50g myself. Another big advantage of the 50g over the 48: it can use a bog standard SD card (up to 1GB) for data storage and transfer. Also, it connects to a desktop/laptop PC via USB (you need to deactivate driver signing enforcement to install the drivers on machines running Windows 8.1 and later) as opposed to the 48's serial connection (how many computers have serial ports these days?).

The 50g doesn't seem to suffer from the "faulty keyboard connection" problem that affects many ageing 48s, mine included.

Look for Emu48+ on the internet. This will allow you to test drive the machines, both 48 and 50g, before you take the plunge and make an informed choice. The user manuals for these machines are widely available on the internet.

Also, there's Free42 for you to look at. It's a great emulator of the HP-42S that doesn't actually need the ROM of the machine to function. Emu48+ does need the ROMs.

Hopefully these things will allow you to make your choice.

One final thought... The HP-42S and HP-48G/S might be a lot harder to come by than an HP 50g.

setq · 01-24-2017, 10:53 AM

Thanks for the replies everyone. I managed to find Debug4x's emulator for the 50g and spent three hours on it programming and playing last night. I've written a couple of small programs already to do some of the tasks I've got automated and assigned them to user keys. Very simple drop values on the stack and run type programs but that's all I need. The infinite stack and RPL have sold it for me completely.

One is on the way to me from Amazon. Thanks everyone.

Quick comment regarding the TI89/92 series. I owned a TI92+ for a couple of years and while powerful it was completely inconvenient. I thought if I bought a TI89 (original blue one) things would be better but alas no, it was the same device with even less ability to access all functions.

42s would be nice looking at it but unfortunately availability is a problem. I'll only buy something I can actually replace at any point in time if it's for day to day use. The 42 would require eBay shenanigans which I can't rely on for daily use.

Unfortunately this whole thing has driven a collecting bug. I can see why people are enthusiastic about these machines. I myself tend to collect Heathkit and HP electronic test equipment. HP calculators may get added to that Wink

48GX · 01-24-2017, 11:28 AM

Hello,

coming from a Casio FX991-ES PLUS I would suggest the HP-35s as the easiest replacement if you just want calculations and direct results for your work.

If you want to go deep in the HP-RPL universe, then HP50G is the one to go.

If there was some big interest in HP calculators then my suggestion would be the HP-42S.

Regards

BartDB · 01-24-2017, 12:39 PM

If you have not used HP calculators before, but intend using RPN - I suggest getting a 50g. It really is not that difficult to learn.

In actual fact with RPL you still have to think in RPN fashion just like programming a 42S.
You are interacting with the stack in RPN fashion - it just doesn't have line numbers.

However it has the added advantage of a stack depth limited only by memory, some additional programming functions (e.g. WHILE loop) and tons of additional functions. Not to mention RAM, SD card and PC connectivity.

Regards.

setq · 09-24-2017, 12:36 PM

Hi all. Reporting back after a few months now. Still using the 50g and am very happy with it. I’ve got to the point I’m using it as a CAS and equation solver mainly and I’ve developed a few directories of canned solved design problems I.e things like filter design processes etc. Want to branch into programming now as I have a couple of problems I’d like to port away from the distraction filled computer and they require more intelligence than basic solving. I will ask in another thread about this.

Thanks again everyone.

brickviking · 09-24-2017, 10:04 PM

Quote:I'll only buy something I can actually replace at any point in time if it's for day to day use.

I would perhaps suggest getting a backup 50G, if that's your intention. HP don't sell these any more, they're concentrating more on the Prime as their flagship product—at least for graphing calculators.

Besides which, if you're somewhat insane and have more spare time than the average, you could install newRPL on one.

(Post 93)

Thomas Okken · 09-25-2017, 12:25 AM

(01-24-2017 10:53 AM)setq Wrote: 42s would be nice looking at it but unfortunately availability is a problem. I'll only buy something I can actually replace at any point in time if it's for day to day use. The 42 would require eBay shenanigans which I can't rely on for daily use.

This is exactly the reason why Free42 exists.

The situation with the RPL calculators is a bit different, for one because there are many more of them so they can be found for fairly little money, and for another because the ROMs are easy to get, legally, which has made emulators much more viable than for the 42S.

larthurl · 11-21-2017, 10:16 PM

(01-24-2017 10:53 AM)setq Wrote: Thanks for the replies everyone. I managed to find Debug4x's emulator for the 50g and spent three hours on it programming and playing last night. I've written a couple of small programs already to do some of the tasks I've got automated and assigned them to user keys. Very simple drop values on the stack and run type programs but that's all I need. The infinite stack and RPL have sold it for me completely.

One is on the way to me from Amazon. Thanks everyone.

Quick comment regarding the TI89/92 series. I owned a TI92+ for a couple of years and while powerful it was completely inconvenient. I thought if I bought a TI89 (original blue one) things would be better but alas no, it was the same device with even less ability to access all functions.

42s would be nice looking at it but unfortunately availability is a problem. I'll only buy something I can actually replace at any point in time if it's for day to day use. The 42 would require eBay shenanigans which I can't rely on for daily use.

Unfortunately this whole thing has driven a collecting bug. I can see why people are enthusiastic about these machines. I myself tend to collect Heathkit and HP electronic test equipment. HP calculators may get added to that

You will be collecting HP calculators before you know it. Wink

larthurl · 11-21-2017, 10:21 PM

(01-24-2017 12:39 PM)BartDB Wrote: If you have not used HP calculators before, but intend using RPN - I suggest getting a 50g. It really is not that difficult to learn.

In actual fact with RPL you still have to think in RPN fashion just like programming a 42S.
You are interacting with the stack in RPN fashion - it just doesn't have line numbers.

However it has the added advantage of a stack depth limited only by memory, some additional programming functions (e.g. WHILE loop) and tons of additional functions. Not to mention RAM, SD card and PC connectivity.

Regards.

how would you compare the 50g to the Prime? Other than obvious things like color screen, icons, etc. I've just added a Prime to my wish list and I think my wife will probably get it for me for Xmas. Not that I need another calculator - HP-35, HP-45, HP-65, HP-67, HP-80, 15C, 16C, 32S, 42S and just bought but not yet arrived a couple of Swiss Micros models. Yeah, I'm a calcaholic.

pier4r · 11-22-2017, 08:47 AM

The problem for me is that if I have another working device it has to have a role.

Even "backup device" is a role.

Therefore, given math needs (although sometimes simple)
the ti34 at least is used for quick checks on the expenses with the stats mode.
The sharp el506w when the ti34 cannot help quickly.
The 50g (two of them) for new RPL and userRPL programs.
The hp prime when the 50g has not enough memory.

Ti nspire (handheld version)? I wanted to use lua but, well, failed. It is possible to use lua but there is a lot of overhead if one does not have the TI software. Maybe I have to check if I can put ndless on it.

Ti89. I know it can be useful, but I have not yet time for it. Although it is a nice memory from a colleague at the uni.

Free42: sometimes useful on the phone for quick checks (like the ti34), although when possible I use real calculators due to a proper keyboard.

And maybe I even forget some device. I'll have to check at home.

My point is that finding another useful role for another calculator is difficult. Indeed I have already the nspire and the ti89 practically unused.

brickviking · 11-23-2017, 01:49 AM

(11-22-2017 08:47 AM)pier4r Wrote: The problem for me is that if I have another working device it has to have a role.

Even "backup device" is a role.
...

I also compare functionalities against what I already have. I have a 50G and an fx-9750GII, why would I need yet another fx-82 or hp-34s? Or for that matter, a TI36X? Heck, I won't even bother getting a TI-84 Colour edition unless I have a lot of spare money not already set aside for something.

(Post 131)

toml_12953 · (This post was last modified: 11-23-2017 02:50 AM by toml_12953.)

(01-24-2017 10:53 AM)setq Wrote: Thanks for the replies everyone. I managed to find Debug4x's emulator for the 50g and spent three hours on it programming and playing last night. I've written a couple of small programs already to do some of the tasks I've got automated and assigned them to user keys. Very simple drop values on the stack and run type programs but that's all I need. The infinite stack and RPL have sold it for me completely.

One is on the way to me from Amazon. Thanks everyone.

Quick comment regarding the TI89/92 series. I owned a TI92+ for a couple of years and while powerful it was completely inconvenient. I thought if I bought a TI89 (original blue one) things would be better but alas no, it was the same device with even less ability to access all functions.

42s would be nice looking at it but unfortunately availability is a problem. I'll only buy something I can actually replace at any point in time if it's for day to day use. The 42 would require eBay shenanigans which I can't rely on for daily use.

Unfortunately this whole thing has driven a collecting bug. I can see why people are enthusiastic about these machines. I myself tend to collect Heathkit and HP electronic test equipment. HP calculators may get added to that

If you like the 42, go to http://www.swissmicros.com and look at the DM42, even if you already bought a 50g. It's compatible with the 42 but goes way beyond the 42's capabilities in graphics, capacity and speed. It will be shipping at the end of November. David and Michael are the best when it comes to supporting their customers. I have confidence that SwissMicros will be around a long time.

grsbanks · 11-28-2017, 01:45 PM

(11-23-2017 02:48 AM)toml_12953 Wrote: If you like the 42, go to http://www.swissmicros.com and look at the DM42, even if you already bought a 50g. It's compatible with the 42 but goes way beyond the 42's capabilities in graphics, capacity and speed. It will be shipping at the end of November. David and Michael are the best when it comes to supporting their customers. I have confidence that SwissMicros will be around a long time.

I couldn't agree more.

There are a few videos on their page dedicated to the upcoming DM42: https://www.swissmicros.com/dm42.php

This is one hell of a machine. I could be accused of being biased because I've been involved in the process of developing it and I've had a beta unit for some 6 months now, but it is a beast. The biggest gripe that I had with the HP-42S (I have one of those, too) was the inability to store programs outside the machine and having to re-enter them manually instead of just "loading" them from another medium. The DM42 solves this problem elegantly, provides about 10x the "in machine" memory anyway, has a fantastic screen, USB connectivity, regular updates and is blazingly fast.