Is HP Prime going out of production?

[pier4r]

But the Samsung Grand prime has no hp in it and Google algorithms are not so naive.

Anyway



I'm surprised, the results feel right for 50g and Nspire.

[Manolo Sobrino]

(05-28-2017 08:13 PM)pier4r Wrote:  But the Samsung Grand prime has no hp in it and Google algorithms are not so naive.

Anyway

https://imgur.com/sPNTNTs

I'm surprised, the results feel right for 50g and Nspire.

Those are not common terms. Search "HP 50G", or "casio fx" for fun.

Google algorithms are fine, they're just looking for what you're writing, not what you're thinking. Check the related searches for both cases, you'll notice what's happening there.

The title tag of "http://www.samsung.com/id/smartphones/finder/" is "Harga HP Samsung Galaxy Handphone -Terbaru & Terbaik Smartphone | Indonesia".

(Of course, my Indonesian is zilch.)

Aha! there was a Samsung Galaxy Grand Prime announced in September 2014, and a Samsung Galaxy Grand Prime Plus, announced in November 2016. Looks like there are a few more Samsung smartphones called "Prime" now.

[pier4r]

(05-28-2017 08:41 PM)Manolo Sobrino Wrote:  Those are not common terms. Search "HP 50G", or "casio fx" for fun.

Nope, just tested, In the first page (very unlikely people get after that) I just have proper results with hp prime, 50g, ti nspire and casio fx.

Dunno what you do with your google.

Therefore, if my google is not an outlier for the google trends, I'm super surprised to see the hp prime like double the nspire (or recovering the advantage the nspire had). And the 50g is not that bad.

[Manolo Sobrino]

(05-28-2017 09:20 PM)pier4r Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 08:41 PM)Manolo Sobrino Wrote:  Those are not common terms. Search "HP 50G", or "casio fx" for fun.

Nope, just tested, In the first page (very unlikely people get after that) I just have proper results with hp prime, 50g, ti nspire and casio fx.

Dunno what you do with your google.

Therefore, if my google is not an outlier for the google trends, I'm super surprised to see the hp prime like double the nspire (or recovering the advantage the nspire had). And the 50g is not that bad.

I'm just using my Google, and checking all the information that it gives me. It makes absolutely no sense that the regional results are so impressive for Indonesia. When such things happen with data you check if you're considering all the alternatives. I just couldn't understand why half of Indonesia was willing to buy an HP Prime at the same time that a new Samsung Prime was hitting the stores. I've just found out, it was fun doing so.

The HP Prime is not doubling the Nspire, and Google Trends is not giving you back the results for people that searched just with quotes.

[Anders]

(05-27-2017 07:06 PM)compsystems Wrote:  The version of Xcas on TI-nspire calculators (KhiCAS) is more complete than in hp-prime?


Source
https://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=14800

HP Prime does the same thing. Do not see why this example could be interpreted as TI-nspire calculators (KhiCAS) is somehow more complete and advanced...? They are not.

Let’s compare out of the box because a lot can be solved with programming so we cannot allow that in a comparison. Therefore we should compare HP Prime CAS with TI-nspire CAS calculators

For a starter, we can use my two example from above (since I’ve already used them) e.g. areas of functionality like Gröbner basis and Galois field which HP Prime CAS calculators have and TI-nspire CAS calculators have not.
But then there are many entire fields (no pun intended) of math like Laplace transforms, z-transforms and Fourier transforms etc where TI-nspire CAS calculators have nothing, zilch, nada. I mean it is not even a close comparison. In addition, there are many more specific examples included in HP Prime CAS (but not in the TI-nspire CAS calculators) like that, e.g. Erf, Erfc, Zeta, Beta, Gamma etc etc etc functions. I mean, the list of differences just goes on and on. And the thing is the HP Prime CAS can actually work with these functions in expression and perform calculus and algebraic manipulation (not just produce a numeric value). This is impressive!

Out of the box (without programming) because of above differences alone (and there are many more),you can say: HP Prime is an engineering university level calculator and TI-nspire CAS calculator is not. Of course TI-nspire can be programmed (like with KhiCAS) to overcome some (many of us did this on HP calculators before CAS :-) ) but a comparison have to be made at the out of the box level to be fair.

So...

[parisse]

Anders, I think you are a little confused : KhiCAS is the TI port of Giac/Xcas tha I made some time ago, it is a ndless application, not the built-in TI CAS (you can run it perfectly legally on a non-CAS nspire). All commands of Giac are enabled on KhiCAS, therefore you have more commands than on the Prime (where some commands are disabled), and you also have support for multi-precision floats and interval arithmetic (GMP+MPFR+MPFI). But there is only poor integration with the TI system (you can only work inside your khicas document) and there is no support, I mean if there is a bug (e.g. a bug that requires rebooting the calc), I can never warrant I will be able to fix it (and it takes much more time to fix a bug on this platform because I do not have efficient debugging tools). It should be considered as a geek application or a useful addition on non-CAS nspire.

[Anders]

(05-29-2017 06:58 PM)parisse Wrote:  Anders, I think you are a little confused : KhiCAS is the TI port of Giac/Xcas tha I made some time ago, it is a ndless application, not the built-in TI CAS (you can run it perfectly legally on a non-CAS nspire). All commands of Giac are enabled on KhiCAS, therefore you have more commands than on the Prime (where some commands are disabled), and you also have support for multi-precision floats and interval arithmetic (GMP+MPFR+MPFI). But there is only poor integration with the TI system (you can only work inside your khicas document) and there is no support, I mean if there is a bug (e.g. a bug that requires rebooting the calc), I can never warrant I will be able to fix it (and it takes much more time to fix a bug on this platform because I do not have efficient debugging tools). It should be considered as a geek application or a useful addition on non-CAS nspire.

Yes I ment the standard built in nspire CAS and should not have referenced the KhiCAS. I kind of ment that KhiCAS programming is top of the out of the box experience so KhiCAS would not count (did not express that logic well). I think we all rather have everything inside the out-of-the-box CAS rather than having it as "KhiCAS like addon". Fixed my post to make this clearer.

So given that, is there a way we can PLEASE get all of Giac/Xcas into HP Primes CAS then

[profrd]

(05-29-2017 07:14 PM)Anders Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 06:58 PM)parisse Wrote:  Anders, I think you are a little confused : KhiCAS is the TI port of Giac/Xcas tha I made some time ago, it is a ndless application, not the built-in TI CAS (you can run it perfectly legally on a non-CAS nspire). All commands of Giac are enabled on KhiCAS, therefore you have more commands than on the Prime (where some commands are disabled), and you also have support for multi-precision floats and interval arithmetic (GMP+MPFR+MPFI). But there is only poor integration with the TI system (you can only work inside your khicas document) and there is no support, I mean if there is a bug (e.g. a bug that requires rebooting the calc), I can never warrant I will be able to fix it (and it takes much more time to fix a bug on this platform because I do not have efficient debugging tools). It should be considered as a geek application or a useful addition on non-CAS nspire.

Yes I ment the standard built in nspire CAS and should not have referenced the KhiCAS. I kind of ment that KhiCAS programming is top of the out of the box experience so KhiCAS would not count (did not express that logic well). I think we all rather have everything inside the out-of-the-box CAS rather than having it as "KhiCAS like addon". Fixed my post to make this clearer.

So given that, is there a way we can PLEASE get all of Giac/Xcas into HP Primes CAS then

I think the Central question arround HP Prime x TI Nspire Advanced Symbolic Math Add-ons like KhiCAS [ https://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php...0&&lang=en ] ( based on Bernard Parisse Giac [ https://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~parisse/giac.html ] ) is not "if" ( or when ) KhiCAS would be ported from Nspire to Prime ( since it would be a bit nonsense replicating Most of Giac code already Native to HP Prime ) but simply "when" ( or if ) someday separate Add-on implementations of multi-precision floats and interval arithmetic packages like (GMP+MPFR+MPFI) [ https://gmplib.org/ ], [ http://www.mpfr.org/ ], [ https://perso.ens-lyon.fr/nathalie.revol/software.html ] where finally Ported to HP Prime !

That "milestone" ( when / if implemented or ported ) would certainly give Prime a very substantial "advantage" over Nspire mainly due to the better Hardware specs of HP Prime.

In a personal response from Bernard Parisse [ http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/archive/in...-4099.html ] ( which I Thank once more for his Very Kind attention, and would like to be "corrected" if I am wrong at the actual post ) it has been explained that due to the Licensing schemes of GMP, MPFR and MPFI they could be not officially integrated to HP Prime Kernel without disclosing the Hole HP Kernel source code ... establishing thus a Copyright limitation conflict between Native HP owned code and OpenSource GMP, MPFR code.

The question to be really asked for would be when an OpenSource separate Add-on Port of multi-precision floats and interval arithmetic like the ones provided by GMP, MPFR and MPFI would finally be available to HP Prime ! providing a substantial Quantum Leap to Prime like the one KhiCAS provided to Nspire a few years ago.

Another interesting an Powerful feature that could be partially ported or natively implemented on HP Prime ( or TI Nspire ) is Closed Form Floating Point Constant Identification or Recognition, like the [identify] command available on Maple for example, which allows for closed form expressions involving transcendental functions to be aproximately "matched" to some Numerical floating point value.

For a "Definitive" online experience on the subject one may give a try to the [ Inverse Symbolic Calculator ] available at [ https://isc.carma.newcastle.edu.au/ ]

That has been actively used for example in determining symbolic ( aproximate ) expressions of Definite integral values numerically evaluated to enough precision, and which simply could not be expressed in analytical form by conventional Symbolic evaluation procedures.

This and other correlated questions and suggestions pertaining the Porting of ( Top Notch ) "21 Century" Experimental Mathematics [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_mathematics ] resources to actual calculator "Marvels" like HP Prime or TI Nspire are extensively adressed ( and "Suggested" ) at

[ http://www.tricider.com/brainstorming/2eKfifdjarx ]

Where also some other Giac features still "missing" on HP Prime are adressed like for example [ reverse_rsolve ] fully described at [ http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~pari...en454.html ] and unfortunately not available on Prime.

A Full List of "missing" Giac features Not implemented on HP Prime would be of Great value to interested users seeking for alternative implementations.

Complementing such feature "gap" I think its also of interest to note the existence of the TI-89 [ MathTools ] package with more than 300 TI-89 Advanced Math Routines with Source Code available at [ http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fil...27135.html ] some of which could be someday Ported to HP Prime !

Like for example explicit Closed Form solutions to 3rd and 4th degree polynomials and a Complete set of Advanced Special Funtions, like the ones from the "NIST Handbook of Mathematical Functions" or the "Atlas of Functions" and the "Atlas for Computing Mathematical Functions" ( where FORTRAN or C Source Codes are provided for the computation of each one ).

In such direction I also suggest the interested reader the "Experimental Mathematics" literature [ http://www.experimentalmath.info/books/ ] from ( the late ) Prof. Jonathan Borwein in close partnership with Prof. David Bailey among others.

Yours Sincerely with my Best Wishes and Regards to all,

hoping to have provided Valuable "pointers" to some interesting and still "missing" features and new Directions of future Improvement to HP Prime and TI Nspire,

Prof. Ricardo Duarte

PS: For a more Detailed description of the still missing [LongFloat] routines on HP Prime in special of the [evalf] function and [Digits] variable I suggest a brief look at [ https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Calculator...-p/5188730 ] and [ http://www.tricider.com/brainstorming/2eKfifdjarx ]

[parisse]

About licensing, if HP was using LGPL libraries, they would not be forced to release their source code, but they would have to do something like for the 49, i.e. someone modifying the LGPL library code should be able to rebuild a firmware with the modified code. But this has side-effects, think of exam mode.

[Anders]

I believe that for HP Prime to maintain approval to be used in various tests (SAT, AP etc) HP cannot open up the platform for 3rd party native coded add-ons (Not just in exam mode) as it essentially would break the College Board and other organization's certifications.

However, if HP did the inclusion of ported libraries into an official release and going through College Board etc certification process (to ben approved for SAT, AP etc), then all of what Ricardo and others have written is possible.

Net, net: It is up to HP to use the right ports and libraries (with the advanced math functions Ricardo and others have written about many times) that does not cause licensing issues (and that is possible and we keep pointing out the various ways to HP on this forum) and include that in the HP Prime firmware in a controlled way thus avoiding problems with the College Board and other organizations.

It comes down to HP's willingness to invest and the business case. Does the revenue benefit outweighs the cost with a healthy ROI (meting IRR standards)?

I believe it can. The market is all engineering collages in the world which means millions and millions of students of new students every year.

Maybe HP needs TI to do something like HP Prime (but higher spec) and include the ideas presented on this forum first so we get some competition.

I've always found that competition is the motivator for action (and with market threating competition, IRR standards suddenly are less important ).

[parisse]

I was first convinced that TI would come with a tactile nspire, but I'm not anymore. It seems that since the introduction of the TI83 with color screen in France (2015), the marketshare of the nspire cx cas has gone down, meaning that perhaps half the nspire cx cas were bought just for the color screen and not for the other features (like the CAS). If the same happened elsewhere (especially in the US), then it probably means that TI will make a tactile TI83/84 before making a tactile nspire, and maybe they will leave the nspire as is (no firmware update except for security fixes). Therefore I don't expect much competition from TI with the HP Prime.

[pier4r]

Aside from that for intensive usage, unless one has the combo ti Nspire + Nspire student software, the ability to exchange data from prime to pc and back is way better than the Nspire. I thought that the computer link software was enough but it is not, incredibly, due to the ". Tsn" data format.

[Luigi Vampa]

(05-24-2017 12:47 PM)MattH Wrote:  I googled it and it's not being sold in very many places. Does anyone know why? I'm considering buying a backup because I love it.

IMHO, 2107Q3 sales could be the key to it all. We can expect a seasonal deep valley in July, and an strong bump in September, but those figures (when put in perspective) will have something to say about the future of the HP Prime. Big companies tend to feel rather twitchy, when a product shows any prospect signs of decline in its product lifecycle.
Who knows, maybe 2018 might bring some news:
- what???, an HP Prime+?, even sleeker?, want more cores&MHz?, finally fully 'XCASed'?, did I hear higher resolution?
- or maybe Prime's sales keep rock-steady, and users will enjoy new and improved FW versions on a polished and mature HW platform. But... why not some room for cosmetics? oh my! who said an HP Prime 'Continuous-Memory Black' Edition!? tell me more!!! ;O)

Yes, you have already noticed, I do love armchair-CEO's brainstorms! But remember, tomorrow's products always start as today's marketing fiction :O)