Printing from HP-86B ?

[smp]

I thought that it might be a good idea to try and add a printer onto my HP-86B setup. I took a look at TAS, and yessiree, there are GPIB printers available, mostly HP ThinkJet 2225As, and, of course their prices start at $100 and go up from there. I'm not sure I want to spend that kind of money for something that I don't know if it even works, nor if I can get supplies for it.

I came across this interesting device:

http://prologix.biz/gpib-usb-controller.html

At $149, at least it is an available device e supported by the company that sells it. However, it seems to be designed to plug onto a piece of test equipment and then a modern computer will control the instrument from its USB port. I'm not so sure if it works the other way around, with the HP-86B being the controller.

Does anyone here have any experience with something like this? What are your thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks, in advance!

smp

[Dave Frederickson]

(07-06-2017 04:24 PM)smp Wrote:  I thought that it might be a good idea to try and add a printer onto my HP-86B setup. I took a look at TAS, and yessiree, there are GPIB printers available, mostly HP ThinkJet 2225As, and, of course their prices start at $100 and go up from there. I'm not sure I want to spend that kind of money for something that I don't know if it even works, nor if I can get supplies for it.

I came across this interesting device:

http://prologix.biz/gpib-usb-controller.html

At $149, at least it is an available device e supported by the company that sells it. However, it seems to be designed to plug onto a piece of test equipment and then a modern computer will control the instrument from its USB port. I'm not so sure if it works the other way around, with the HP-86B being the controller.

Does anyone here have any experience with something like this? What are your thoughts or suggestions?

Hi smp,

2225A's can be found on eBay for less than $100. I recall seeing a 2225 recently for $25 plus shipping. The primary concern with ThinkJet's is that the ink is (was?) corrosive and if it leaked out of the printhead it was usually all over the flex connector and carriage assembly.



This usually destroys the flex cable. Best to shop around and find a printer with a good flex. Also, Martin has a procedure for modifying QuietJet flex cables to work with the 2225.

http://www.mh-aerotools.de/hp/documents/...202225.pdf

The USB-GPIB controller will be of no use connecting a printer. What you could do is connect a PIL-Box to an 82938A HP-IL adapter and then print to the virtual printer in ILPer.

Dave

[Paul Berger (Canada)]

(07-06-2017 04:24 PM)smp Wrote:  I thought that it might be a good idea to try and add a printer onto my HP-86B setup. I took a look at TAS, and yessiree, there are GPIB printers available, mostly HP ThinkJet 2225As, and, of course their prices start at $100 and go up from there. I'm not sure I want to spend that kind of money for something that I don't know if it even works, nor if I can get supplies for it.

I came across this interesting device:

http://prologix.biz/gpib-usb-controller.html

At $149, at least it is an available device e supported by the company that sells it. However, it seems to be designed to plug onto a piece of test equipment and then a modern computer will control the instrument from its USB port. I'm not so sure if it works the other way around, with the HP-86B being the controller.

Does anyone here have any experience with something like this? What are your thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks, in advance!

smp

You are correct it is designed to drive HPIB devices from USB and they don't normally work the other way around, however I don't have any experience with this particular USB->IEEE488/GPIB/HPIB device.

My setup for printing from 86B is I have a National Instruments GPIB-> Serial adapter, they work very well as they support Xon-Xoff protocol which makes it easy to drive serial printers. I also picked up a Quadram MicrofazerII which supports serial or parallel input and out, switch selectable from the front panel I use it to drive one of my 2671G thermal printers. I have a 2671G with HPIB interface, if you are interested send me an email.

Paul.

[rprosperi]

And yet another option is to add an 82938A HP-IL adapter as Dave suggests, and then you can plug-in any HP-IL printer, including the 2225B ThinkJet, or even the 82162A strip printer, though probably that's not too useful for the 86B.

[smp]

(07-06-2017 04:44 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  Hi smp,

2225A's can be found on eBay for less than $100. I recall seeing a 2225 recently for $25 plus shipping. The primary concern with ThinkJet's is that the ink is (was?) corrosive and if it leaked out of the printhead it was usually all over the flex connector and carriage assembly.

<...snip...>

This usually destroys the flex cable. Best to shop around and find a printer with a good flex. Also, Martin has a procedure for modifying QuietJet flex cables to work with the 2225.

http://www.mh-aerotools.de/hp/documents/...202225.pdf

The USB-GPIB controller will be of no use connecting a printer. What you could do is connect a PIL-Box to an 82938A HP-IL adapter and then print to the virtual printer in ILPer.

Dave

Hi Dave,

Thanks very much for your thoughts and information. Looks like this is not going to be a quick weekend adventure, but will require a bit more patience and research, and then perhaps taking some risk with available printers.

smp

[smp]

(07-06-2017 05:33 PM)Paul Berger (Canada) Wrote:  You are correct it is designed to drive HPIB devices from USB and they don't normally work the other way around, however I don't have any experience with this particular USB->IEEE488/GPIB/HPIB device.

My setup for printing from 86B is I have a National Instruments GPIB-> Serial adapter, they work very well as they support Xon-Xoff protocol which makes it easy to drive serial printers. I also picked up a Quadram MicrofazerII which supports serial or parallel input and out, switch selectable from the front panel I use it to drive one of my 2671G thermal printers. I have a 2671G with HPIB interface, if you are interested send me an email.

Paul.

Hi Paul,

Thanks very much for your thoughts and advice. I'll take a look at the equipment you mention as I move on with my research.

smp

[smp]

(07-06-2017 07:51 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  And yet another option is to add an 82938A HP-IL adapter as Dave suggests, and then you can plug-in any HP-IL printer, including the 2225B ThinkJet, or even the 82162A strip printer, though probably that's not too useful for the 86B.

Hi Bob,

Thanks very much for your thoughts and advice. I'll also add this into my research.

smp

[Dave Frederickson]

HP 2225A, $24.99 OBO incl. shipping. Doesn't get any cheaper than this, but I'd ask for picks of the flex cable first.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-HP-Think...2469262127?

[smp]

(07-07-2017 06:46 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  HP 2225A, $24.99 OBO incl. shipping. Doesn't get any cheaper than this, but I'd ask for picks of the flex cable first.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-HP-Think...2469262127?

Got it! Thanks, Dave. I've sent a message to the Seller.

smp

[smp]

So, I've been looking and looking for any available GPIB-to-Serial (USB, or RS-232, or anything serial) interfaces on the Internet. Maybe I'm too thick to do the search properly, but I keep coming up with Serial-to-GPIB interfaces. The exception being that National Instruments may actually make what I'm looking for - they have some $500 and some $600 devices. Sigh!

I then took another look at the HP 82938A module. This would put my HP-86 on the HP-IL and I could link up with pyILPER, as Dave and Bob have suggested. The 82938A is available here:

http://www.360tech.com/hp-il-interface-m...47116.html

for $65. Not bad. The manual for the 82938A says that it requires either the IO ROM (00085-15003) or the Plotter/Printer ROM (00085-15002). As luck has it, I have the Plotter/Printer ROM. Oh, lucky day! But wait! I have also read that the ROMs that start with 00085 are for the HP-85, and I might actually need the equivalent Plotter/Printer ROM for the HP86/87 (00087-15002). Is that right?

Wow. This is starting to get complicated... I love my HP stuff, I love my HP stuff, I love my HP stuff...

smp

[smp]

Well, the Seller did provide a few images. Attached is the one that I believe matters. I think this shows that the printer is in pretty bad shape. Your thoughts and observations are welcome.

smp

[rprosperi]

(07-07-2017 08:49 PM)smp Wrote:  The manual for the 82938A says that it requires either the IO ROM (00085-15003) or the Plotter/Printer ROM (00085-15002). As luck has it, I have the Plotter/Printer ROM. Oh, lucky day! But wait! I have also read that the ROMs that start with 00085 are for the HP-85, and I might actually need the equivalent Plotter/Printer ROM for the HP86/87 (00087-15002). Is that right?

HP-83/85 machines use ROMs with p/n starting with 00085-xxxx, while HP-86/87 machines use ROMs with p/n starting with 00087-xxxx. There is a pretty complete list here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_series_...extensions

You cannot use 85 ROMs in an 87 and vice-versa.

Many of the early interface module manuals were written before 86/87 models were released and therefor only list the 83/85 ROM model numbers. So, this translates to you will need either ROM 00087-15002 or 00087-15003.

However, and this may be a big however, on the HP-85, that ROM contains both PRINTER and PLOTTER support. On the HP-86/87, PRINTER support is built-in, so advice to add the PRINTER/PLOTTER ROM may not apply.

I would guess, from the wording in the IL Interface manual, that the needed support for this interface is built-in to your 86/87 and additional ROMs are not needed for printing. Likewise, you probably would need to add to add the PLOTTER ROM for HP-IL plotting.

[smp]

(07-07-2017 10:37 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  HP-83/85 machines use ROMs with p/n starting with 00085-xxxx, while HP-86/87 machines use ROMs with p/n starting with 00087-xxxx. There is a pretty complete list here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_series_...extensions

You cannot use 85 ROMs in an 87 and vice-versa.

Many of the early interface module manuals were written before 86/87 models were released and therefor only list the 83/85 ROM model numbers. So, this translates to you will need either ROM 00087-15002 or 00087-15003.

However, and this may be a big however, on the HP-85, that ROM contains both PRINTER and PLOTTER support. On the HP-86/87, PRINTER support is built-in, so advice to add the PRINTER/PLOTTER ROM may not apply.

I would guess, from the wording in the IL Interface manual, that the needed support for this interface is built-in to your 86/87 and additional ROMs are not needed for printing. Likewise, you probably would need to add to add the PLOTTER ROM for HP-IL plotting.

Thanks very much, Bob, for this information. At least I can give it a try without adding any ROMs to start and see how it goes. That's a good point about the plotting - probably will need to be aware of that, too.

Thanks!
smp

[rprosperi]

(07-07-2017 10:37 PM)smp Wrote:  Well, the Seller did provide a few images. Attached is the one that I believe matters. I think this shows that the printer is in pretty bad shape. Your thoughts and observations are welcome.

smp

The dried ink gunk is not so important, that can be cleaned; the part that matters is interface for the ink cartridge/head; this is the area with the 2 vertical rows of bumps (which you can see in Dave's photo). You're right that it doesn't look great, but you really can't tell from that pic (at least I can't)

I would ask for an ever closer/clearer pic of the carriage head/interface; if the seller refuses, I'd move along.

[Paul Berger (Canada)]

(07-07-2017 08:49 PM)smp Wrote:  So, I've been looking and looking for any available GPIB-to-Serial (USB, or RS-232, or anything serial) interfaces on the Internet. Maybe I'm too thick to do the search properly, but I keep coming up with Serial-to-GPIB interfaces. The exception being that National Instruments may actually make what I'm looking for - they have some $500 and some $600 devices. Sigh!




Wow. This is starting to get complicated... I love my HP stuff, I love my HP stuff, I love my HP stuff...

smp

There is this one, its in Ireland but only $65 and provides 4 channels and i checked the spec sheet it does support Xon/Xoff

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ICS-GPIB-to-Seri...SwGvhT5j2s

Or this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/ICS-4804B-GPIB-t...Sw9r1WCvdX it is a bare board but does include the GPIB connector with address switches and best offer is available.

What I have is a NI GPIB-232CV-A I had to be pretty patient to find one at a price I liked.. less than $100.

Paul.

[Dave Frederickson]

(07-07-2017 10:37 PM)smp Wrote:  Well, the Seller did provide a few images. Attached is the one that I believe matters. I think this shows that the printer is in pretty bad shape. Your thoughts and observations are welcome.

This is why we don't store or transport our ThinkJet's with a cartridge installed.

(07-07-2017 08:49 PM)smp Wrote:  Wow. This is starting to get complicated... I love my HP stuff, I love my HP stuff, I love my HP stuff...

LOL!

It looks like the least expensive solution would be the 82938A and ILPer, unless you can find a decent HP-IB printer for less. Be aware that ILPer doesn't emulate the graphics capabilities of the 2225, but it does allow you to make soft copies the can be printed out later and the 82938A doesn't support mass storage devices. Also, pyILPER has a plotter emulator, but you will probably need the 86/87 Plotter ROM for that.

And before you go shopping for ROM's, consider a PRM-85.
http://vintagecomputers.site90.net/hp85/prm85.htm
https://groups.io/g/hpseries80/topic/prm...ld/5146424?

Dave

[smp]

(07-07-2017 11:45 PM)Paul Berger (Canada) Wrote:  There is this one, its in Ireland but only $65 and provides 4 channels and i checked the spec sheet it does support Xon/Xoff

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ICS-GPIB-to-Seri...SwGvhT5j2s

Or this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/ICS-4804B-GPIB-t...Sw9r1WCvdX it is a bare board but does include the GPIB connector with address switches and best offer is available.

What I have is a NI GPIB-232CV-A I had to be pretty patient to find one at a price I liked.. less than $100.

Paul.

Thanks very much, Paul. The one in Ireland looks good, but I'll have to find out about shipping cost. The bare board I can work with. I might be able to make a reasonable offer to get that one.

smp

[smp]

(07-08-2017 12:38 AM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  It looks like the least expensive solution would be the 82938A and ILPer, unless you can find a decent HP-IB printer for less. Be aware that ILPer doesn't emulate the graphics capabilities of the 2225, but it does allow you to make soft copies the can be printed out later and the 82938A doesn't support mass storage devices. Also, pyILPER has a plotter emulator, but you will probably need the 86/87 Plotter ROM for that.

And before you go shopping for ROM's, consider a PRM-85.
http://vintagecomputers.site90.net/hp85/prm85.htm
https://groups.io/g/hpseries80/topic/prm...ld/5146424?

Dave

Thanks again, Dave, for all your advice. I was not aware that the 82938A does not support mass storage - I was hoping that would be an easy way to get code in and out.

I have the 82929A Programmable ROM Module, so I do have a way to get one (or two?) EPROMs into my system instead of going for the actual ROMs. I'll also take a look at the PRM-85, to see if it's a better solution.

smp

[cruff]

(07-06-2017 04:24 PM)smp Wrote:  I came across this interesting device:

http://prologix.biz/gpib-usb-controller.html
At $149, at least it is an available device e supported by the company that sells it. However, it seems to be designed to plug onto a piece of test equipment and then a modern computer will control the instrument from its USB port. I'm not so sure if it works the other way around, with the HP-86B being the controller.

I have one of these, and yes, it can run in either controller mode or device mode. However, it is essentially just an HPIB to USB serial converter, handling the details of the HPIB bus transactions. The device attached to the USB side has to provide the smarts to either act as the controller or as a device from the HPIB data payload point of view. I believe the manual should be readily available on the Prologix web site if you are interested in the details on how it works. I've used mine to transfer data to/from my 71b using the HP IB-IL converter.

[smp]

(07-08-2017 12:43 PM)cruff Wrote:  

(07-06-2017 04:24 PM)smp Wrote:  I came across this interesting device:

http://prologix.biz/gpib-usb-controller.html

<...snip...>

I have one of these, and yes, it can run in either controller mode or device mode. However, it is essentially just an HPIB to USB serial converter, handling the details of the HPIB bus transactions. The device attached to the USB side has to provide the smarts to either act as the controller or as a device from the HPIB data payload point of view. I believe the manual should be readily available on the Prologix web site if you are interested in the details on how it works. I've used mine to transfer data to/from my 71b using the HP IB-IL converter.

Thanks very much for this information. I'm quite glad to know that interface can be used either as a controller or a device. Yes, I was able to get the manual right on the item description page.

smp