Hp prime questions (plus little explorations).

[pier4r]

As far as I know, TI does not offer any app like the HP prime app (of which I expect a lot and now in those holidays I hope to reap the fruits. We will see). Is that correct?

I mean the "ti student software" works only on windows. Right?

edit:
I am trying to do my Christmas project (setting up a win10 pro mostly for the hp prime app for development) but win 10 is really an elephant on relatively old systems ("old" in terms of hd speed).

It is not much a matter of cpu or ram (samsung n130, 1gb ram, atom n270) rather the updates literally require days to complete when the HD is not that speedy for random reads and writes. win 10 is either ssd or long waiting times (if one keeps a system mostly off, so at the next power on, the system has to install months of updates).

[pier4r]

Aside from the question about the software of the competition. Is there a composite data type for the prime, like a "record"?

In userRPL the closest thing to a record is a list, that was able to save whatever. Is the same for the prime?

[toml_12953]

(12-26-2017 10:57 PM)pier4r Wrote:  Aside from the question about the software of the competition. Is there a composite data type for the prime, like a "record"?

In userRPL the closest thing to a record is a list, that was able to save whatever. Is the same for the prime?

Yes. There is no composite data type like a record in PPL.

[Joe Horn]

(12-27-2017 02:52 AM)toml_12953 Wrote:  

(12-26-2017 10:57 PM)pier4r Wrote:  Aside from the question about the software of the competition. Is there a composite data type for the prime, like a "record"?

In userRPL the closest thing to a record is a list, that was able to save whatever. Is the same for the prime?

Yes. There is no composite data type like a record in PPL.

How about HP PPL's 'table' object type (DOM_MAP)? It not only lets you store multiple objects of any type into one table, but it even lets you create your own custom indices, including names for each entry. Silly example in CAS:

t:=table(71 = "Titan", "Chuck" = 48, "Fir" = "Prime")

This creates a CAS variable called 't' which contains a table with 3 objects in it, each with a custom index, accessible like this:

t[71] --> "Titan"
t["Chuck"] --> 48
t["Fir"] --> "Prime"

The objects themselves, as well as the indices, apparently can be any valid CAS object.

The Xcas documentation for 'table' says, "It may be used for example to store a table of phone numbers indexed by names." An address-book type application is usually created using record-type structures, so Prime's 'table' object might be what you're looking for.

Fair Warning: 'table' has always been a little buggy in Prime, and never supported, so if you use it in programs, be sure to test it thoroughly, and beware that 'table' MIGHT vanish entirely in a future firmware update.

[toml_12953]

(12-27-2017 06:22 AM)Joe Horn Wrote:  

(12-27-2017 02:52 AM)toml_12953 Wrote:  Yes. There is no composite data type like a record in PPL.

Fair Warning: 'table' has always been a little buggy in Prime, and never supported, so if you use it in programs, be sure to test it thoroughly, and beware that 'table' MIGHT vanish entirely in a future firmware update.

That's why I never recommend it. I'd really like to see real records implemented as in C or Pascal. Right now I use a table with dimension size equal to the number of fields in the record of interest and then use subscripts in place of dot notation to access fields in my pseudo-record.

LOCAL Nam:=1, Address:=2, Phone:=3;
then to get the address of a person use:

Myrec(Address) in place of

Myrec.Address

[pier4r]

Table seems actually an associative array ( that is great for records). Good to know, thanks!

[pier4r]

Totally newbie question.

Is it possible to connect the hp prime app on windows to the hp connectivity kit on windows (I feel that frequent changes to code would be more manageable from the connectivity kit) ?

I tried to activate the "wifi" network in the settings, but it says "no network available".

According to the connectivity kit manual I need to:

"If you start HP Prime Virtual Calculator on the same computer that is running Connectivity Kit, the virtual calculator connects automatically to Connectivity Kit.
Whichever method you use to connect, the HP Prime calculator will appear by name in the calculator pane, with an expansion arrow that you can click to see the contents of the HP Prime calculator.
Connecting"

I started, restarted the virtual calculator, named it, but it says always "no network available".

Info about the system:
win 10 pro 32 bit.
Hp prime app (last version).
Hp conn kit (last version).

The funny part? My android based HP prime pro sees the conn kit immediately (via wireless!), while the Hp prime pro on the same computer of the conn kit, does not.

well, I bought the HP prime pro also on win because I expected easier development there, while now android may be more advantaged. Such is life. Also the connkit seems quite well done (and surely has limitations). A lot of work for a team of not so many people. Good job! (So in any case I consider still the android and windows versions are worth it)

[pier4r]

Another question: is there the possibility to write a multiline comment?

I mean with a good text editor (notepad++ for example) one can easily add comments on multiple lines, nonetheless is it provided by the HP PPL syntax the possibility of multiline comments?

[Arno K]

(12-27-2017 11:13 AM)pier4r Wrote:  Totally newbie question.

Is it possible to connect the hp prime app on windows to the hp connectivity kit on windows (I feel that frequent changes to code would be more manageable from the connectivity kit) ?

I tried to activate the "wifi" network in the settings, but it says "no network available".

According to the connectivity kit manual I need to:

"If you start HP Prime Virtual Calculator on the same computer that is running Connectivity Kit, the virtual calculator connects automatically to Connectivity Kit.
Whichever method you use to connect, the HP Prime calculator will appear by name in the calculator pane, with an expansion arrow that you can click to see the contents of the HP Prime calculator.
Connecting"

I started, restarted the virtual calculator, named it, but it says always "no network available".

Info about the system:
win 10 pro 32 bit.
Hp prime app (last version).
Hp conn kit (last version).

The funny part? My android based HP prime pro sees the conn kit immediately (via wireless!), while the Hp prime pro on the same computer of the conn kit, does not.

well, I bought the HP prime pro also on win because I expected easier development there, while now android may be more advantaged. Such is life. Also the connkit seems quite well done (and surely has limitations). A lot of work for a team of not so many people. Good job! (So in any case I consider still the android and windows versions are worth it)

I think you should read: Beta HP Connectivity Kit v3

[pier4r]

(12-27-2017 12:02 PM)Arno K Wrote:  I think you should read: Beta HP Connectivity Kit v3

Yup!

Quote:This is actually Microsoft stopping you from doing it. Don't blame me! Smile

I'm serious about that. Windows store apps disallow any form of connection from one program to another *on the same device* except with a very limited set of connections they completely control and have defined. Doing custom connections is not possible. The reasoning is that it is a security risk and malware/spyware uses these methods to hijack stuff.

Communication works fine to another device on the network, but can't talk to the connkit running locally.

http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-972...l#pid86229

I will ask in that thread what I can do.

[StephenG1CMZ]

(12-24-2017 09:48 PM)pier4r Wrote:  As far as I know, TI does not offer any app like the HP prime app (of which I expect a lot and now in those holidays I hope to reap the fruits. We will see). Is that correct?

I mean the "ti student software" works only on windows. Right?

edit:
I am trying to do my Christmas project (setting up a win10 pro mostly for the hp prime app for development) but win 10 is really an elephant on relatively old systems ("old" in terms of hd speed).

It is not much a matter of cpu or ram (samsung n130, 1gb ram, atom n270) rather the updates literally require days to complete when the HD is not that speedy for random reads and writes. win 10 is either ssd or long waiting times (if one keeps a system mostly off, so at the next power on, the system has to install months of updates).

I am not even sure TI has a Windows app like HP does,... Though I have not installed it, so cannot be sure.

When I looked into it, I noted two areas of concern.
First, the TI sites make lots of references to ROM being copyrighted and having to download it from your calculator. Are those ROM's for some other product, or do you have to download the software app and then find you cannot use it until an actual calculator arrives in the post?

Second, the very name of the App. "STUDENT'S". AM I sure that the licence will allow it to run without typing in the school I am [not] attending??? Am I sure I can buy one copy of the licence and not 40?

Perhaps it will let me run it at home...
But with the HP equivalent there is no suggestion that when the technology "improves" you might need a headmaster's fingerprint to unlock it.

[toml_12953]

(12-27-2017 12:26 PM)StephenG1CMZ Wrote:  

(12-24-2017 09:48 PM)pier4r Wrote:  As far as I know, TI does not offer any app like the HP prime app (of which I expect a lot and now in those holidays I hope to reap the fruits. We will see). Is that correct?

I mean the "ti student software" works only on windows. Right?

edit:
I am trying to do my Christmas project (setting up a win10 pro mostly for the hp prime app for development) but win 10 is really an elephant on relatively old systems ("old" in terms of hd speed).

It is not much a matter of cpu or ram (samsung n130, 1gb ram, atom n270) rather the updates literally require days to complete when the HD is not that speedy for random reads and writes. win 10 is either ssd or long waiting times (if one keeps a system mostly off, so at the next power on, the system has to install months of updates).

I am not even sure TI has a Windows app like HP does,... Though I have not installed it, so cannot be sure.

When I looked into it, I noted two areas of concern.
First, the TI sites make lots of references to ROM being copyrighted and having to download it from your calculator. Are those ROM's for some other product, or do you have to download the software app and then find you cannot use it until an actual calculator arrives in the post?

Second, the very name of the App. "STUDENT'S". AM I sure that the licence will allow it to run without typing in the school I am [not] attending??? Am I sure I can buy one copy of the licence and not 40?

Perhaps it will let me run it at home...
But with the HP equivalent there is no suggestion that when the technology "improves" you might need a headmaster's fingerprint to unlock it.

Yes, TI has student (and a teacher edition) software that fulfills the same role as the connectivity kit but has the emulator built right in. The ROM is copyrighted but you don't have to have the physical calculator to use the app.

[Tim Wessman]

(12-27-2017 02:18 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  Yes, TI has student (and a teacher edition) software that fulfills the same role as the connectivity kit but has the emulator built right in. The ROM is copyrighted but you don't have to have the physical calculator to use the app.

You do need to buy them however. Also, only have an iOS app at least the last time I checked and no other platforms besides win/mac.

[StephenG1CMZ]

(09-17-2017 09:38 AM)pier4r Wrote:  Disclaimer: I tried to search with google, but the word "prime" gets mangled with prime numbers that are often mentioned in this type of forums.

A thread similar to: http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-7955 but for the prime in the prime section. Although here I will mostly ask questions.

First a huge thanks to jebem with his huge thread on prime documentation and resources, as well as thanks to all the contributors. I observed that even though several people exposed similar topics (for example introduction to programming) it is not true that "ah, it exist once, then it is not needed twice". Indeed the way to expose concepts varies always, therefore every explanation can be useful.

In particular I enjoyed so far the Han explanations, although the last update was in 2014.

Questions:
- Aside from built in commands (that are flexible but non that much like the 50g), does anyone know robust community libraries that provide list and/or string processing? I found in my quick searches only this: http://www.hpcalc.org/details/7785 (I cannot say if it is good or not given only one version) .
- Is there a sort of AUR (advanced user reference) ? I have only the prime user guide that although not bad, it is pretty dry about all the commands in the prime.


Thanks for the answers, surely more questions will come.

PS: I bought the prime App in May 2017 but never used it since then. Yesterday I tested with a quick add loop (a for) and on a nvidia shield k1 2014. It goes through 10 million additions in 7 seconds. Quite quick (newRPL on a computer did it in 2 seconds).
Since newRPL is a nice project but I still need some time to get used to it (especially because I need to open another computer to develop with it) I realized that the HP prime may be able to cover - for the moment - what userRPL cannot. At least with my style of programming.

Regarding your original question about robust list commands...
I have considerably added to my collection of useful list commands for the Prime referenced in your link.
http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-9411.html
Unlike some built-ins, these handle empty lists but don't yet handle full lists so although there is some error handling, I hesitate to call them robust yet.
[Version 1.1 uploaded...more updates to follow]

[pier4r]

(12-29-2017 11:11 PM)StephenG1CMZ Wrote:  Regarding your original question about robust list commands...
I have considerably added to my collection of useful list commands for the Prime referenced in your link.
http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-9411.html
Unlike some built-ins, these handle empty lists but don't yet handle full lists so although there is some error handling, I hesitate to call them robust yet.
[Version 1.1 uploaded...more updates to follow]

Nice that you share the source code. I do not understand why but many people do nice work, but don't share the sources. In this way other people cannot understand/fix/extend/fork the work if needed.

[pier4r]

Why are some commands uppercase and some others lowercase?

I did not read through all the manual but it seems that uppercase are home commands, while lowercase are cas commands. Can it be?

edit1: another question. Is the code of a program somehow temporarily compiled? In other words, if I write FOR var1 FROM 1 TO SIZE(list) DO , is SIZE(list) always computed or is it computed once?

[Tim Wessman]

(12-31-2017 05:28 PM)pier4r Wrote:  Why are some commands uppercase and some others lowercase?

I did not read through all the manual but it seems that uppercase are home commands, while lowercase are cas commands. Can it be?

edit1: another question. Is the code of a program somehow temporarily compiled? In other words, if I write FOR var1 FROM 1 TO SIZE(list) DO , is SIZE(list) always computed or is it computed once?

Yes, UPPERCASE is home or equivalent. Mixed case starting with Caps is system/app variables, lowercase is CAS.

Yes, it is compiled. But it will be direct without optomizations. Evaluated every time. 'list' might change. However unlike the 48 series type lists, they have a count so it doesn't need to iterate content and just returns the size value directly.

[pier4r]

(12-31-2017 07:45 PM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  Yes, UPPERCASE is home or equivalent. Mixed case starting with Caps is system/app variables, lowercase is CAS.

Yes, it is compiled. But it will be direct without optomizations. Evaluated every time. 'list' might change. However unlike the 48 series type lists, they have a count so it doesn't need to iterate content and just returns the size value directly.

Thanks for the clarifications! Much appreciated

If I may, I insist on the question that I posted also here: http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-972...l#pid87025

If I have a prime pro app from the MS store, is there a way to install an HP prime pro not from the MS store, reusing the key and therefore getting the access via the hp connkit?

Thanks in advance and happy new year!

[Didier Lachieze]

(12-31-2017 08:06 PM)pier4r Wrote:  If I may, I insist on the question that I posted also here: http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-972...l#pid87025

If I have a prime pro app from the MS store, is there a way to install an HP prime pro not from the MS store, reusing the key and therefore getting the access via the hp connkit?

Have you tried to install the Virtual Calculator from the ftp site?

[Tim Wessman]

(12-31-2017 08:06 PM)pier4r Wrote:  If I have a prime pro app from the MS store, is there a way to install an HP prime pro not from the MS store, reusing the key and therefore getting the access via the hp connkit?

You cannot run the windows store app on the same computer as the connkit. Doesn't matter if you sideload or do anything else. The communication stack that windows store apps have to be compiled with just doesn't support it unless you are in a special developer mode during debugging. The release code can't communicate as Microsoft has specifically limited it as a security measure.

If the connkit is on another computer or a virtualized system it will communicate.
The non-windows store app found at the HP ftp site doesn't have this limitation because it is a "normal" windows program.