Can there be a slim & trim graphing calc?

[Matt Agajanian]

Hi all.

Although I do favour the HP graphing calcs having a 48GX and 50G myself, I wonder if graphing calcs (even the TI, Casio and Sharp) need to be so thick and bulky. OTOH, I guess the trade-off for a graphing calculator is the need for a display to accomodate a sizable graph, data, MathPrint/Equation Writer display of equations, enough battery power, enough keys for alpha & numeric data as well as the function keys.

But, can a graphing calculator's form factor be streamlined/optimised and still be heavily functional?

[Manolo Sobrino]

Yes .

[walter b]

(04-22-2014 12:17 AM)Manolo Sobrino Wrote:  Yes .

You made my day, Manolo. Grazias!

[Han]

(04-21-2014 08:06 PM)Matt Agajanian Wrote:  Hi all.

Although I do favour the HP graphing calcs having a 48GX and 50G myself, I wonder if graphing calcs (even the TI, Casio and Sharp) need to be so thick and bulky. OTOH, I guess the trade-off for a graphing calculator is the need for a display to accomodate a sizable graph, data, MathPrint/Equation Writer display of equations, enough battery power, enough keys for alpha & numeric data as well as the function keys.

But, can a graphing calculator's form factor be streamlined/optimised and still be heavily functional?

I take it the HP Prime isn't thin enough? Granted the software is still being updated and newer features added, but the form factor seems about right to me.

[Matt Agajanian]

(04-22-2014 07:31 PM)Han Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 08:06 PM)Matt Agajanian Wrote:  Hi all.

Although I do favour the HP graphing calcs having a 48GX and 50G myself, I wonder if graphing calcs (even the TI, Casio and Sharp) need to be so thick and bulky. OTOH, I guess the trade-off for a graphing calculator is the need for a display to accomodate a sizable graph, data, MathPrint/Equation Writer display of equations, enough battery power, enough keys for alpha & numeric data as well as the function keys.

But, can a graphing calculator's form factor be streamlined/optimised and still be heavily functional?

I take it the HP Prime isn't thin enough? Granted the software is still being updated and newer features added, but the form factor seems about right to me.

Thanks for the update. Of the autonomic reflex to buy a new HP calc, I've been waiting this one out until the tech bumps have been smoothed over so, I've not seen the Prime. Now I know it's not falling into the bulky category.

Thanks for the specs update.

Sounds like I'll get one but first, have the software/firmware kinks been worked out?

[Thomas Klemm]

(04-22-2014 10:03 PM)Matt Agajanian Wrote:  Of the autonomic reflex to buy a new HP calc, I've been waiting this one out until the tech bumps have been smoothed over (...)

(04-22-2014 12:44 AM)Don Shepherd Wrote:  If I were a betting man, which I'm not, I'd bet that in two years HP will be out of the calculator business. Maybe one year.

You may want to buy it before "the software/firmware kinks have been worked out".

[Ron Ross]

Sure, and you probably already have one. Smart phones can support several different apps, two of many which are excellent are the Hp 48G app that is Free for the base app and $5 for the full blown app that can retain programs. It is an excellent app!! There is another for the Ti-89 that isn't free, and you need a Ti-89 ROM (and ownership of a Ti-89).

Oooooohh!!! But you WANT buttons!!!, Well, then I guess I would have to suggest the Casio 9860G SLIM. It is an excellent, truly pocket graphing calculator about the size of a pioneer calculator, certainly smaller than the Hp 35s.

Its drawbacks are that it is a Casio with a Casio interface. Not a high end math system like the Hp 50G or Ti-89. But I still favor it over either in that it is not an obtrusive ostentatious monster that screams out, "Calculator Nerd!!!". It compares more to the Ti-84 in capability but with the Casio (and now recent Hp Prime) app screen. No, it doesn't support RPN either and it is no longer available new, but since it was only discontinued a few years ago, should still be easily found.

[Manolo Sobrino]

(You're welcome Walter ... In any case, for the sake of completitude: )

Joerg Woerner has pictures of the TI-84 Pocket.fr:



They released the same model (now in English, and no crossed 7 ) as the TI-84 Plus Pocket SE for Asia.

From this branch of the TI z80s I've only tested (got it in a lot) the old, boxy and strangely appealing 82. They are calculators optimised for graphing, but then, the resolution is not great. They are very easy to operate, but I can't stand the shifted EE.

There are small graphing classic Casios too: 6000G, 6500G, 7500G and the more recent 6300G, released in (Russian) green as the 6800G in France. Of all these the more handy is IMO the (cloned many times) 6300G/6800G, despite its pretty limited graphing capabilities. The 6000G/6500G are quite rare, very pretty and that's it. The 7500G has a great design, lots of memory for its time, it's really small and the only Casio I've met with a flex PCB. Too bad the tactile keys are awful. Piotr Piatek has released recently a nice emulator for it: http://www.pisi.com.pl/piotr433/fx7500ee.htm

(There are elephants in rooms and then there are the Prime and the future of HP's Personal Systems. I hope they get over it, I think they are qualified to do so.)

[Matt Agajanian]

Actually, after picking up a (forgive me) TI-nSpire CX CAS, I can see, yes, they're getting slimmer.

[JimP]

(04-21-2014 08:06 PM)Matt Agajanian Wrote:  Hi all.

Although I do favour the HP graphing calcs having a 48GX and 50G myself, I wonder if graphing calcs (even the TI, Casio and Sharp) need to be so thick and bulky. OTOH, I guess the trade-off for a graphing calculator is the need for a display to accomodate a sizable graph, data, MathPrint/Equation Writer display of equations, enough battery power, enough keys for alpha & numeric data as well as the function keys.

But, can a graphing calculator's form factor be streamlined/optimised and still be heavily functional?

Technically, yes. The HP 9g was an example (albeit a bit lame) of what can be squeezed in. I have one just for collection purposes but I don't use it!

Alternatively, could one shrink the form factor/space between keys of the HP 30b/WP34s and expand the display, and one might have something pocketable... that's a whole new can of worms, though!

[rprosperi]

(04-23-2014 11:33 PM)JimP Wrote:  The HP 9g was an example (albeit a bit lame) of what can be squeezed in. I have one just for collection purposes but I don't use it!

LOL- Important disclaimer Jim! You must be cautious and be clear about these things. One could easily soil one's reputation here on MoHPC if it slipped that you actually used an HP 9g.

[HP67]

I don't understand the emphasis on small at some point. Small calculators are as hard if not harder to use as big ones. The 48 was fine for a graphing/big screen model. The 67 is the right size for a non-graphing model. They both have a nice, grippable size and heft, and good, usable keyboards. Neither go in your pocket. The Voyagers can go in your pocket but nobody wants to lose one down the can, so... I end up wanting a useful, solid package more than something I can jam in my pocket.

The 50g is too wide and too thin. It's hard to hold firmly in one hand and it's unbalanced. It's like they were shooting for a slim phone form-factor but missed a few high points. I think they are getting away from useful human-engineering parameters for the sake of styling.

[Matt Agajanian]

(04-24-2014 05:35 AM)HP67 Wrote:  I don't understand the emphasis on small at some point. Small calculators are as hard if not harder to use as big ones. The 48 was fine for a graphing/big screen model. The 67 is the right size for a non-graphing model. They both have a nice, grippable size and heft, and good, usable keyboards. Neither go in your pocket. The Voyagers can go in your pocket but nobody wants to lose one down the can, so... I end up wanting a useful, solid package more than something I can jam in my pocket.

The 50g is too wide and too thin. It's hard to hold firmly in one hand and it's unbalanced. It's like they were shooting for a slim phone form-factor but missed a few high points. I think they are getting away from useful human-engineering parameters for the sake of styling.

Right, right and right! The 48 series has the perfect form factor, the perfect keyboard layout and even the best interface (among several other well-designed elements).

Another point to the 50G's awkwardness is a very cluttered keyboard, overrun with second, third functions as well as alpha characters. Lots of stuff to cram onto that key layout--very overwhelming.

[walter b]

(04-24-2014 05:55 AM)Matt Agajanian Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 05:35 AM)HP67 Wrote:  The 48 was fine for a graphing/big screen model. The 67 is the right size for a non-graphing model. ...

The 48 series has the perfect form factor ...

... to knock in a nail, screaming "I'm a nerd!!". For professional work in an office environment it's overkill. Voyagers and Pioneers were perfect in some aspects but lack I/O and state-of-the-art displays. Just my 20m€.

d:-/

[Matt Agajanian]

(04-24-2014 06:53 AM)walter b Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 05:55 AM)Matt Agajanian Wrote:  The 48 series has the perfect form factor ...

... to knock in a nail, screaming "I'm a nerd!!". For professional work in an office environment it's overkill. Voyagers and Pioneers were perfect in some aspects but lack I/O and state-of-the-art displays. Just my 20m€.

d

Granted, in some respects, the 48 is over-the-top but, in my original context of a sleek design, non-cluttrred/overwhelming keyboard, excellent UI, all without being big, overcrowded and bulky, the 48 was a graphing calc done right.

Albeit, I will agree completely, a V'Ger 15C or even the 42S is quite the ultimate non-graphing handheld!