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Maximize a 41C - Challenge - Printable Version

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Maximize a 41C - Challenge - TallKey - 04-23-2023 05:46 AM

Task:
Maximize the utility of a 41C with 4 option ROMs/Modules.

Conditions:
List 4 modules meeting your use needs. Spirit of the challenge is to select ROMs prior to the likes of Diego* type modules. HEPAX, ZEN, CCD type modules are OK as they were released back in the day.

This is the best I can do with what I have at-hand:
TIME
QUAD MEM
X FUNCTIONS
PPC ROM

You do not have to own the module to list the module to kit out a 41C.

*Sorry Diego, your modules are far too capable for this challenge :-)

[attachment=12001]

RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - zixingcheche - 04-23-2023 06:24 AM

hi

as the picture shown, X-FUNCTION & QUAD memory in same 41c, how many registers will get?
thanks!

RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - J-F Garnier - 04-23-2023 08:27 AM

(04-23-2023 05:46 AM)TallKey Wrote:  Maximize the utility of a 41C with 4 option ROMs/Modules.

This is the best I can do with what I have at-hand:
TIME
QUAD MEM
X FUNCTIONS
PPC ROM

With a bare 41C (that I don't own), I would say:
QUAD MEM to get the max 319 main registers
combined X-FUNCTIONS & TIME to get almost the CX equivalent
combined 2 X-MEMORY to get the max 600 x-registers
Advantage ROM to get adv math capability, especially matrix and solve/integrate

Actually, this is what I did decades ago for my 41CV, QUAD MEM excepted:

[Image: image003.jpg]

and you can see another maximized setup with 28K of user code in ROM.

J-F

RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - MeindertKuipers - 04-23-2023 12:11 PM

My first HP41C had the TIME and QUAD modules built-in. I also combined an Extended Function and one extended memory module together, so I had 3 free slots for application pacs. Most of the time I had it loaded with a PPC-ROM and Card Reader, and the one remaining slot alternating for printer, Wand of MATH or STAT pacs.

RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - Allen - 04-23-2023 01:00 PM

(04-23-2023 05:46 AM)TallKey Wrote:  Task:
Maximize the utility of a 41C with 4 option ROMs/Modules.

Similar to others, I'd:
  1. put in my triple (XFUN+XMEM+XMEM) module, QUAD, TIME, and PPC
  2. check to make sure the aincent N-type batteries hadn't gone dead
  3. pray the 41C turns on 1 more time

Practically speaking, I would probably put it back on the shelf and use my standard 42S for whatever I was hoping to do with the loaded 41C

Smile

RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - Massimo Gnerucci - 04-23-2023 03:26 PM

(04-23-2023 01:00 PM)Allen Wrote:  I would probably put it back on the shelf and use my standard 42S for whatever I was hoping to do with the loaded 41C

:)

Just remember to press on the bezel and hope it turns on.

;)

RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - TallKey - 04-23-2023 06:24 PM

(04-23-2023 06:24 AM)zixingcheche Wrote:  hi

as the picture shown, X-FUNCTION & QUAD memory in same 41c, how many registers will get?
thanks!

319 Memory Registers.
124 Extended Memory Registers.

RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - TallKey - 04-23-2023 06:37 PM

(04-23-2023 08:27 AM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  With a bare 41C (that I don't own), I would say:
QUAD MEM to get the max 319 main registers
combined X-FUNCTIONS & TIME to get almost the CX equivalent
combined 2 X-MEMORY to get the max 600 x-registers
Advantage ROM to get adv math capability, especially matrix and solve/integrate

Actually, this is what I did decades ago for my 41CV, QUAD MEM excepted:

and you can see another maximized setup with 28K of user code in ROM.

J-F

The combined XFUNCTIONS / TIME and 2 XMEMORY are DIY projects? If not DIY, then who sold them?

Your stock module configuration would be:
QUAD MEMORY
XFUNCTIONS
TIME
ADVANTAGE

Yes?

RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - Dave Britten - 04-23-2023 07:46 PM

I'd go with quad memory, Advantage, X-Func, and an empty slot to pop in the HP-IL module or printer when needed.

RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - Sylvain Cote - 04-24-2023 12:04 PM

Setup #1
  1. Quad (system RAM)
  2. Time (page 5)
  3. X-Fncs/Mem (page C + XM)
  4. Card Reader (page E) .or.
    Wand (page E) .or.
    Printer (page 6) .or.
    HP-IL (pages 6 & 7)

Setup #2
  1. Quad (system RAM)
  2. Time (page 5)
  3. Port-X-Tender
    1. Hepax (Q-ROM pages 8..B, ROM at first empty page available)
    2. empty
    3. X-Fncs/Mem (page C + XM)
    4. empty
    5. X-Mem #1 (XM)
    6. X-Mem #2 (XM)
    7. HP-IL (pages 6 & 7)
  4. Card Reader (page E) .or.
    Wand (page E)


RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - rprosperi - 04-24-2023 12:58 PM

For the record, one can daisy-chain Port-X-Tenders, and so....

But since one is more than enough to fill most pages (with selective module choices) there isn't much point in doing so, but it is (was) fun to do this, now about 40 years ago.

RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - Sylvain Cote - 04-24-2023 01:14 PM

(04-24-2023 12:58 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  For the record, one can daisy-chain Port-X-Tenders, and so....
Yep ... but not very practical.
[Image: AME_Port-X-Tender_One-Too-Much-1.jpg]
[Image: AME_Port-X-Tender_One-Too-Much-2.jpg]

RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - rprosperi - 04-24-2023 03:27 PM

(04-24-2023 01:14 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  Yep ... but not very practical.

Whoever said anything about practical??? This is the wrong thread if you're looking for practical... Smile

RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - pier4r - 04-24-2023 06:31 PM

(04-24-2023 01:14 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  
(04-24-2023 12:58 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  For the record, one can daisy-chain Port-X-Tenders, and so....
Yep ... but not very practical.
[.img=999x506]http://www.hhcworld.com/files/hpmo/pictures/AME_Port-X-Tender_One-Too-Much-1.jpg[/img]
[.img=999x365]http://www.hhcworld.com/files/hpmo/pictures/AME_Port-X-Tender_One-Too-Much-2.jpg[/img]

Not having a 41C, could I get a small explanation of this? Do I understand correctla that those blocks are - as the name suggest - port extenders for functions, like a JBOD ?

If that is the case, then the 41C was really designed as a sort of small compact monstrous controller? If I am not wrong the 41 should have the possibility to control devices through a bus (HP IL or the like). I mean amazing, they tried to make a portable super control plane. But was the calculator able to use all the ports or only 4 at times?

RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - BillBee - 04-24-2023 06:31 PM

(04-23-2023 07:46 PM)Dave Britten Wrote:  I'd go with quad memory, Advantage, X-Func, and an empty slot to pop in the HP-IL module or printer when needed.

I have to second this.

Practical and effective.

-Bill

RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - TallKey - 04-24-2023 07:38 PM

(04-24-2023 06:31 PM)pier4r Wrote:  Not having a 41C, could I get a small explanation of this? Do I understand correctla that those blocks are - as the name suggest - port extenders for functions, like a JBOD ?

If that is the case, then the 41C was really designed as a sort of small compact monstrous controller? If I am not wrong the 41 should have the possibility to control devices through a bus (HP IL or the like). I mean amazing, they tried to make a portable super control plane. But was the calculator able to use all the ports or only 4 at times?

HP-IL, able to address 31 IL devices (per the HP manual).
Modules, the maximum number of modules being addressable simultaneously is a complicated response. See Sylvian's first post for a sense of the potential maximum.

Not an expert on port extenders, would not describe them as JBOD-like and is OT.

Technically anything able to communicate on the HP-IL interface is part of the ecosystem.

RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - rprosperi - 04-24-2023 07:59 PM

(04-24-2023 06:31 PM)pier4r Wrote:  Not having a 41C, could I get a small explanation of this? Do I understand correctla that those blocks are - as the name suggest - port extenders for functions, like a JBOD ?

If that is the case, then the 41C was really designed as a sort of small compact monstrous controller? If I am not wrong the 41 should have the possibility to control devices through a bus (HP IL or the like). I mean amazing, they tried to make a portable super control plane. But was the calculator able to use all the ports or only 4 at times?

No 41C ???? My son, you are missing an essential component of being a true HP aficionado....

Each physical 41 Port is connected to 2 logical Pages; the 41C ROM memory is comprised of 16 pages (0..F) of 4K 10-bit words.

41 OS ROM is installed in Pages 0-3
Page-4 is reserved for Diag ROM (or other, special-purpose ROMs which are hard-coded to Page-4)
Pages 5, 6, 7 have no physical ports, and are somewhat 'reserved' for special-purpose ROMs which are hard-coded to load in these pages exclusively. If these devices are not installed, these Pages can be used by normal ROMs, if they are configured to map into these Pages)

Port-1 maps to Pages 8 & 9
Port-2 maps to Pages A & B
Port-3 maps to Pages C & D
Port-4 maps to Pages E & F

The Port-X-Tender lets you install multiple ROMs, which can fit logically into the available Pages, but not physically, due to lack of Port slots.

Example: You can plug 2 4K ROM modules, one into Page-8 and one into Page-9 using the Port-X-Tender, but this isn't possible on a 41C as there is only Port-1 physically available.

Note: The above is only a gross simplification of the full details, and no doubt some of these will come in follow-up posts, but this is intended to explain the broad purpose of the Port-X-Tender.

The Port-X-Tender manual, which explains this FAR better than these short notes, can be found here, and is well worth reading by all 41 users. Nearly all readers will have a bit of an "A-Ha!" moment when reading this manual, written by Jake Schwartz!)

https://literature.hpcalc.org/items/1259

RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - Massimo Gnerucci - 04-24-2023 08:02 PM

(04-24-2023 07:59 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  No 41C ???? My son, you are missing an essential component of being a true HP aficionado....

Be patient with the youngsters, Bob. :)

RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - Massimo Gnerucci - 04-24-2023 08:07 PM

TIME
QUAD MEM
CCD
HEPAX

RE: Maximize a 41C - Challenge - Sylvain Cote - 04-25-2023 12:32 AM

(04-24-2023 06:31 PM)pier4r Wrote:  If that is the case, then the 41C was really designed as a sort of small compact monstrous controller?
The HP-41 was the first HP calculator to be conceived as an open-ended system, much like the desktop computers of the time. (Apple II, HP Series 80, etc)

At the beginning there was one calculator (41C), memory modules (RAM), some application modules (ROM) and three peripherals: the card reader (storage), the optical wand (input) and the thermal printer (output).
Then things got more complicated, Q-ROM boxes, EPROM boxes, MLDL boxes, etc. started to appears on the market.
Then HP released the HP-IL interface, which was a serial version of their HP-IB parallel interface, along with several HP-IL peripherals and several system modules.
→ System Modules: Time, X-Functions/Memory, X-Memory, Extended-I/O, Plotter, HP-IL Development, etc.
→ HP-IL Peripherals: Thermal Printer, Digital Cassette Drive, RS-232C interface, HP-IB interface, GPIO interface, Modem, HP-IL Development Kit, etc.
At the same time, individuals, users groups and companies started creating their own application ROM, system ROM and peripherals. (PPC ROM, CCD ROM, ZenROM, Paname ROM, etc.)

So, what is the HP-41C ?
Personally I see it as a bridge system between the calculator world and the computer world.
On one side, it is a typical RPN calculator that does things like its predecessors and on the other side, it is a capable HP-IL controller able to manage bigger devices that itself.

Sylvain