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+--- Thread: HP97 The journey begins (/thread-12156.html)
RE: HP97 The journey begins - Brad Barton - 08-05-2020 04:33 AM
(07-02-2020 02:56 AM)teenix Wrote: I still have 8 key functions to fill.
If you're still looking for functions, how about vector addition, subtraction, multiplication and division? Extra bonus if you can implement a full vector per register ala the 48 series. It's much easier to keep track of than spreading each vector across 2 registers.
Of course polar and rectangular settings would apply.
If nothing else, these are interesting problems to solve while you're stranded. Hope you get home soon.
Brad
RE: HP97 The journey begins - teenix - 08-05-2020 09:24 AM
(08-05-2020 04:33 AM)Brad Barton Wrote: If you're still looking for functions, how about vector addition, subtraction, multiplication and division? Extra bonus if you can implement a full vector per register ala the 48 series. It's much easier to keep track of than spreading each vector across 2 registers.
Of course polar and rectangular settings would apply.
If nothing else, these are interesting problems to solve while you're stranded. Hope you get home soon.
Brad
Full up
With plenty of memory and program space, I'm sure programs could be sorted out.
As an aside, I've found a single chip solution to implementing the CX on a 67 replacement CPU board. As well as the replacement 67 software, I've implemented all the HP calculator cores that are required to run the CX. A mind boggling amount to go though, if time permits.
cheers
Tony
RE: HP97 The journey begins - Harald - 08-05-2020 08:31 PM
(08-05-2020 09:24 AM)teenix Wrote:That would be so cool to have. My collection is pretty much complete, bit I think that is one that I would have to have.(08-05-2020 04:33 AM)Brad Barton Wrote: If you're still looking for functions, how about vector addition, subtraction, multiplication and division? Extra bonus if you can implement a full vector per register ala the 48 series. It's much easier to keep track of than spreading each vector across 2 registers.
Of course polar and rectangular settings would apply.
If nothing else, these are interesting problems to solve while you're stranded. Hope you get home soon.
Brad
Full up
With plenty of memory and program space, I'm sure programs could be sorted out.
As an aside, I've found a single chip solution to implementing the CX on a 67 replacement CPU board. As well as the replacement 67 software, I've implemented all the HP calculator cores that are required to run the CX. A mind boggling amount to go though, if time permits.
cheers
Tony
Thanks again for all the effort you are putting in Tony!
Cheers,
Harald
RE: HP97 The journey begins - Hans-Peter - 08-05-2020 09:12 PM
The market price of a HP67 will rise to immeasurable heights. Especially with the defective models :-|
Tony, please wait until we all have a second for the upgrade ;-)
RE: HP97 The journey begins - Paul Dale - 08-06-2020 12:12 AM
I've been keeping an eye out for a non-functional 67, they seem to be pretty rare.
Pauli
RE: HP97 The journey begins - Massimo Gnerucci - 08-08-2020 12:18 PM
(08-05-2020 09:24 AM)teenix Wrote:(08-05-2020 04:33 AM)Brad Barton Wrote: If you're still looking for functions, how about vector addition, subtraction, multiplication and division? Extra bonus if you can implement a full vector per register ala the 48 series. It's much easier to keep track of than spreading each vector across 2 registers.
Of course polar and rectangular settings would apply.
If nothing else, these are interesting problems to solve while you're stranded. Hope you get home soon.
Brad
Full up
With plenty of memory and program space, I'm sure programs could be sorted out.
As an aside, I've found a single chip solution to implementing the CX on a 67 replacement CPU board. As well as the replacement 67 software, I've implemented all the HP calculator cores that are required to run the CX. A mind boggling amount to go though, if time permits.
cheers
Tony
Great!
Already in queue...
RE: HP97 The journey begins - teenix - 01-19-2021 07:32 AM
Hi all,
Its been awhile since some progress has been made, but I started populating the HP-97 CPU board today. There will be some things to work out as it progresses as some testing and possible modification will be required especially with the printer drivers, but its a start :-)
cheers
Tony
RE: HP97 The journey begins - albertofenini - 01-19-2021 08:48 AM
Hi Tony good luck !!!
It will as amazing as the other projects you did !!!
RE: HP97 The journey begins - teenix - 01-22-2021 07:12 AM
Hi all,
I've populated most of the board. The power supply, over voltage circuit and logic are up and running. There are some delays in component delivery so I'll have to wait a bit until they arrive so I can finish and plug it in. Then the fun will start :-)
cheers
Tony
RE: HP97 The journey begins - Massimo Gnerucci - 01-22-2021 07:31 AM
Nice and clean!
RE: HP97 The journey begins - teenix - 01-23-2021 08:17 AM
Hi all,
Some progress :-)
There is a minor timing issue with the display refresh, but the processor seems to be working and is decoding the ROM code properly.
I'll tweak the display timing and then on to the keyboard decoding next.
Once this is complete, the code I imported from the 67 replacement board should work for the 97 card read/write so I will move on to the printer which involves emulating the original PIK chip, which also has a key press buffer. The new CPU board has hardware to drive the print heads and motor and this will require some effort to get going. The new PIC processor has a lot to do during the print process like character decoding and timing for the print heads, battery voltage monitoring for constant print intensity and motor speed, print head position, braking and direction control etc. All this while still checking key input and running the HP microcode as it is this that controls everything.
cheers
Tony
RE: HP97 The journey begins - teenix - 01-29-2021 06:28 AM
Hi all,
Some more progress.
The keyboard, display and switches all seem to be working correctly which verifies the PCB design and PIC code for these items.
Next I'll see if the card read/write code I imported from the 67 works.
One problem is that the ribbon cable between the main PCB and card reader PCB has failed due to cracking and doesn't seem repairable. Has anyone found a replacement for these as 0.1 inch track spacing seems to be scarce for flat film connectors these days.
If no progress, I'll move on to the printer which has a whole host of challenges.
cheers
Tony
RE: HP97 The journey begins - albertofenini - 01-29-2021 03:51 PM
Well done, it's an amazing achievement, like it was for the HP65 or the HP67 or the Panamatik
solution for the Woodstock provided by Bernard
It's nothing short of a miracle to see how it is possible to resurrect these units with a new heart
Maybe I have already asked this, but how complex would it be to recreate the original PCBs
and/or the original ICs ?
Much more complicated than re-engineering the boards with actual components ?
take care and congratulations!!
RE: HP97 The journey begins - Chr Yoko - 01-29-2021 04:09 PM
(01-29-2021 06:28 AM)teenix Wrote: Hi all,
Some more progress.
The keyboard, display and switches all seem to be working correctly which verifies the PCB design and PIC code for these items.
Next I'll see if the card read/write code I imported from the 67 works.
97
One problem is that the ribbon cable between the main PCB and card reader PCB has failed due to cracking and doesn't seem repairable. Has anyone found a replacement for these as 0.1 inch track spacing seems to be scarce for flat film connectors these days.
If no progress, I'll move on to the printer which has a whole host of challenges.
cheers
Tony
Looks Great !!
Do you have the overall specs of this new 97 MotherBoard ?
- PowerSupply possible from an USB 5V connector/cable ?
(my 97 has been converted to USB power, so no more need of that old AC powersupply that i do not have anyway)
- Will it keep programs into RAM after switch off ?
- Will there be some onboard flash memory to store programs ?
If yes, how much kb ?
How will we manage the list of programs available (dir/copy/delete ?)
- Will there be an USB connection for PC<w=>97 data exchange ?
RE: HP97 The journey begins - AndiGer - 01-29-2021 05:57 PM
(01-29-2021 06:28 AM)teenix Wrote: One problem is that the ribbon cable between the main PCB and card reader PCB has failed due to cracking and doesn't seem repairable. Has anyone found a replacement for these as 0.1 inch track spacing seems to be scarce for flat film connectors these days.
Hi Tony,
I haven't the need to replace that cable but I think you can use an old IDE connector cable for replacement. Two ribs are nearly the perfect spacing for one lead.
Have fun
Andi
RE: HP97 The journey begins - teenix - 01-29-2021 07:38 PM
(01-29-2021 03:51 PM)albertofenini Wrote: Well done, it's an amazing achievement, like it was for the HP65 or the HP67 or the Panamatik
solution for the Woodstock provided by Bernard
It's nothing short of a miracle to see how it is possible to resurrect these units with a new heart
Maybe I have already asked this, but how complex would it be to recreate the original PCBs
and/or the original ICs ?
Much more complicated than re-engineering the boards with actual components ?
take care and congratulations!!
It would be possible to recreate the functionality of the chips (as in Bernhards ACT) but I don't think it would be possible to recreate that functionality with the same visual aspects. Either way it would be a lot more work.
cheers
Tony
RE: HP97 The journey begins - teenix - 01-29-2021 07:52 PM
(01-29-2021 04:09 PM)Chr Yoko Wrote: Looks Great !!
Do you have the overall specs of this new 97 MotherBoard ?
- PowerSupply possible from an USB 5V connector/cable ?
(my 97 has been converted to USB power, so no more need of that old AC powersupply that i do not have anyway)
- Will it keep programs into RAM after switch off ?
- Will there be some onboard flash memory to store programs ?
If yes, how much kb ?
How will we manage the list of programs available (dir/copy/delete ?)
- Will there be an USB connection for PC<w=>97 data exchange ?
The 97 board should run from a USB port as it is powered by 5V. But the port would have to supply enough current to run the printer and card reader.
It will also charge the battery from the original charger, and a replacement as long as the specs are the same. These chargers cannot supply a 'lot' of current because of the 97's over voltage circuitry which relies on creating a voltage drop when excess current is drawn from it.
I'm looking into battery backed data retention for it.
It has on board memory to hold the programs from 810 cards. I already have PC software available to manage programs via the USB port or via Bluetooth.
cheers
Tony
RE: HP97 The journey begins - teenix - 01-29-2021 07:54 PM
(01-29-2021 05:57 PM)AndiGer Wrote: Hi Tony,
I haven't the need to replace that cable but I think you can use an old IDE connector cable for replacement. Two ribs are nearly the perfect spacing for one lead.
Have fun
Andi
Thanks Andi, I'll look into it.
cheers
Tony
RE: HP97 The journey begins - AndiGer - 01-30-2021 07:36 AM
(01-29-2021 07:54 PM)teenix Wrote:(01-29-2021 05:57 PM)AndiGer Wrote: Hi Tony,
I haven't the need to replace that cable but I think you can use an old IDE connector cable for replacement. Two ribs are nearly the perfect spacing for one lead.
Have fun
Andi
Thanks Andi, I'll look into it.
cheers
Tony
An idea that came to my brain tonight:
Maybe you can use parts (stripes) of the broken cable at both ends as kind of socket to the connector and solder the IDE cable to those sockets. I don't know the leads of the ribbon cable are solderable
RE: HP97 The journey begins - BobVA - 02-02-2021 01:53 AM
Hi Tony:
Just blue-skying here: Is worth considering replacing the HP thermal printer with a modern serial printer module? Assuming there's a mechanical close match that fits, it would be a lot simpler to interface (just send it ascii, perhaps after loading a custom font), faster, quieter and pretty much zero maintenance (no moving print head).
...but they do take a fair amount of peak power, since they're printing an entire row of dots.
Fun to think about, anyway. :-)