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+--- Forum: Not quite HP Calculators - but related (/forum-8.html)
+--- Thread: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? (/thread-15793.html)
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - johanw - 10-27-2020 12:50 AM
(10-26-2020 10:09 PM)Peet Wrote: P.S. I realy think your Free42 is one of the best RPN Apps/Programs. After my disappointment with the app go41cx I use free42 to run my old HP41-Prgs. The Attachmend is how your App looks on my PhonesCool, a HP41 skin for Free42. Does the ON button also function as exit?
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - Peet - 10-28-2020 09:02 AM
(10-27-2020 12:50 AM)johanw Wrote: Cool, a HP41 skin for Free42. Does the ON button also function as exit?
Yes, I tried to change less button positions and labels as possible. So I left some 41 keys if the meaning was similar enough e.g .:
ON = ON / OFF / EXIT
ASN = ASSIGN
USER = CUSTOM
VIEW = SHOW
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - Logan - 11-04-2020 04:59 AM
I agree with Thomas as well.
Personally, as someone who never had an RPN calculator until 2015 or so, I have no nostalgia for the HP41. I have had the DM41x (beta) since January and while I've run it a few times and made a video on it, I actually use the DM42 every day. I find in practice that I don't need 500 ROMs and built in programs. I just use a few I programmed myself and the interface and capabilities of the 42 are quite a bit more polished and useable in my opinion.
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - Peet - 11-04-2020 08:50 AM
(11-04-2020 04:59 AM)Logan Wrote: I agree with Thomas as well.
I see that there are a lot of people who shares the statement that the HP42S is the best and the 41 only for a museeum.
Even 42 fans should realize that compared to more modern calculators it is no longer at the cutting edge of technology and that it already had some disadvantages compared to the even nostalgic HP48. Compared to modern Calculators with CAS and modern program languages like python the HP42 also belongs to another time.
Why is it for some people so important only "allow" one opinion? What's wrong with saying that both calculators are nostalgic and today both can be good tools too?
I'll stay to my opinion that both calculators are nostalgic and both can be good everyday tools.
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - Marco Polo - 11-04-2020 06:25 PM
(11-04-2020 08:50 AM)Peet Wrote:Disclaimer: I am I long-term RPL lover I use a 50g daily in my job, but as I don't need CAS and the bunch of advanced (and sometimes obscure) advanced math functions I am looking for something lighter. Just to give an example, a modern reiteration of 48sx with more speed, the GX memory model and easily replaceable would be perfect for me.(11-04-2020 04:59 AM)Logan Wrote: I agree with Thomas as well.Even 42 fans should realize that compared to more modern calculators it is no longer at the cutting edge of technology and that it already had some disadvantages compared to the even nostalgic HP48. Compared to modern Calculators with CAS and modern program languages like python the HP42 also belongs to another time.
I use also a 35s for simple calculations, by never fell in love with it.
Now I am experimenting with 41cx emulator end Free42, just to understand if DM41x or DM42 can fit my needs.
As a matter of fact, for me 42s/Free42 is easier than 41cx's being more similar to 48 series concept. And in general I find 42s easier to use compared to 41cx and more suitable to my needs due to soft keys and custom menu.
My feeling is that, If I ever decide to buy one, it will be a DM42. Unless SM will develop a DM48....
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - Logan - 11-04-2020 06:29 PM
(11-04-2020 06:25 PM)Marco Polo Wrote: Disclaimer: I am I long-term RPL lover I use a 50g daily in my job, but as I don't need CAS and the bunch of advanced (and sometimes obscure) advanced math functions I am looking for something lighter.
That's kind of where I ended up. For any kind of plotting or symbolic stuff, I'll just enter it on a computer so my graphing calculators have fallen into disuse over my years at work. But my scientific calculator gets exercised regularly. It's the sweet spot that gets all the functions I usually need quickly without the more cumbersome interface that comes from all the functions I don't need.
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - Thomas Okken - 11-04-2020 06:54 PM
(11-04-2020 08:50 AM)Peet Wrote: I see that there are a lot of people who shares the statement that the HP42S is the best and the 41 only for a museeum.
I hope you're not getting that from my post, but since I'm the only one to use the word "museum" in this thread so far, maybe I should respond:
I merely stated that for me, the HP-42S is an excellent tool, possibly the best. That's why I chose to write a simulator for it: so that this tool would continue to be available even after all the real HP-42Ses have ended up dead or in, well, museums.
My remark about the HP-41 was in reference to the perceived importance of the innovations it represents. Those innovations make it worthy for inclusion in a museum but don't necessarily make it a good tool today. I mean, the Ford Model T was a very innovative car when it was introduced, but few people would consider it better as a daily driver today than, say, a modern compact Toyota.
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - Marco Polo - 11-04-2020 06:57 PM
(11-04-2020 06:29 PM)Logan Wrote: That's kind of where I ended up. For any kind of plotting or symbolic stuff, I'll just enter it on a computer so my graphing calculators have fallen into disuse over my years at work. But my scientific calculator gets exercised regularly. It's the sweet spot that gets all the functions I usually need quickly without the more cumbersome interface that comes from all the functions I don't need.That's why I hope SM, despite the necessity of a new keyboard as the DM42 has less keys than HP48, will investigate the feasibility of a DM48.
DM41x was aimed to the hard core HP41 enthusiasts, DM42 to more "casual" users and HP42s users, the future Wp43s seems to me very oriented to heavy math users.
It seems to me that we could not be the only two guys on the planet with the same needs for a calculator, probably there are many people using their 48 and hoping for a modern replacement....
OK, in Covid time dreaming is necessary :-)
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - Luigi Vampa - 11-04-2020 07:47 PM
I use Free42 on a daily basis, never out of nostalgia, it is a great tool for my job. Most of the time it is meant to solve a non-linear equation by means of its solver.
I just switch over my HP50g when I need to deal with a system of non-linear equations. Unfortunately, the great Solvesys solver is available only for the 49/50, and there is no 42 version, as far as I know.
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - John Keith - 11-04-2020 08:07 PM
(11-04-2020 06:25 PM)Marco Polo Wrote: Disclaimer: I am I long-term RPL lover I use a 50g daily in my job, but as I don't need CAS and the bunch of advanced (and sometimes obscure) advanced math functions I am looking for something lighter. Just to give an example, a modern reiteration of 48sx with more speed, the GX memory model and easily replaceable would be perfect for me.
... Unless SM will develop a DM48....
I would also like to see a modern replacement for the HP-48/50, but I would prefer something "heavier", not lighter.
I almost never use graphing and seldom use the CAS per se but I do use the advanced math functions including some that are part of the CAS.I see no reason to eliminate powerful features just because one does not use them personally, especially considering how much more memory and processing speed are available with modern hardware.
Physically, I would prefer the keyboard layout of the 48G but the color scheme of the 48s, running on a fast ARM processor with more RAM and storage.
Getting back on topic, I have never been an HP-41 user but the DM-41X is undeniably neat. I have a 42s and I use Free42 regularly, but I am really looking forward to the DM-43 because I actually like the heavy math functions.
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - Thomas Okken - 11-04-2020 08:47 PM
(11-04-2020 08:07 PM)John Keith Wrote: I actually like the heavy math functions.
Just out of curiosity... which ones?
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - Peet - 11-04-2020 10:31 PM
(11-04-2020 06:54 PM)Thomas Okken Wrote: That's why I chose to write a simulator for it: so that this tool would continue to be available even after all the real HP-42Ses have ended up dead or in, well, museums.
Don't you think this sounds a little bit nostalgig?
Back to the point why I see the HP41's historical significance as an "extra".
Some people like a modern VW-Beatle more than a VW-Golf or a BMW Mini more than the BMW 1 Series. For this people the historical meaning makes the product more interesting and more fun. Other people prefer the tech and see more use in the more modern cars because there are less compromise. In my opinion there is a place for the Mini and the Beatle next to Golf and 1. For some people they can also be the better cars - even under actual creteria.
There are people outthere who don't have an advantage from the new functions of a 42. For this people the 41 can be the better or more interesting tool. So I say there is a place for the DM41X next to the DM42 even if others want to deny it.
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - Thomas Okken - 11-04-2020 11:52 PM
(11-04-2020 10:31 PM)Peet Wrote:(11-04-2020 06:54 PM)Thomas Okken Wrote: That's why I chose to write a simulator for it: so that this tool would continue to be available even after all the real HP-42Ses have ended up dead or in, well, museums.
Don't you think this sounds a little bit nostalgig?
Nostalgia is what made me buy an HP-67 and have it restored.
I wrote Free42 because it's something I use.
But I guess I can keep saying that until I'm blue in the face, you can't imagine this yourself so you refuse to believe it anyway. *shrug*
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - Peet - 11-05-2020 12:34 AM
(11-04-2020 11:52 PM)Thomas Okken Wrote: Nostalgia is what made me buy an HP-67 and have it restored.
I wrote Free42 because it's something I use.
Nostalgia and utility are not necessarily a contradiction in terms.
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - rprosperi - 11-05-2020 02:12 AM
(11-04-2020 08:07 PM)John Keith Wrote: Physically, I would prefer the keyboard layout of the 48G but the color scheme of the 48s, running on a fast ARM processor with more RAM and storage.
Yup!! I want one just like that, you've got the aesthetics nailed. Or maybe several.
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - pascal_meheut - 11-05-2020 04:22 AM
(11-04-2020 11:52 PM)Thomas Okken Wrote: Nostalgia is what made me buy an HP-67 and have it restored.
I wrote Free42 because it's something I use.
Nothing wrong with nostalgia and we thank you for it as Free42 is a great piece of software.
BTW, I bought several old HP for this reason and when emptying my childhood room, I found the Casio FX-702p I used during high-school & college 20 years before.
So I wrote an emulator, a debugger until I was able to run my old programs.
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - hth - 11-05-2020 05:24 AM
I had a look at the HP-42 manual. It seems you cannot define your own keyboard layouts. Is that true? They dropped this killer feature from the HP-41 and you compare the two calculators and think the HP-42 is better? What am I missing here?
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - grsbanks - 11-05-2020 07:13 AM
(11-05-2020 05:24 AM)hth Wrote: I had a look at the HP-42 manual. It seems you cannot define your own keyboard layouts. Is that true? They dropped this killer feature from the HP-41 and you compare the two calculators and think the HP-42 is better? What am I missing here?
Correct. The 42S does not allow you to define a "USER" keyboard like the 41C, but it does allow you to create custom menus each with up to 18 entries. Of course, nothing's to stop you defining one key in your custom menu to load up another custom menu so you end up with 34 entries at little cost compared to just 18.
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - Paul Dale - 11-05-2020 07:26 AM
In addition to the custom menu, a program can also create it's own menus and they can be as complex as you want. There is no limit except available memory.
As for better, the 42S supports complex numbers and matrices natively. It has a lot more functions than the 41C, a lot more memory, a two line display and is much faster.
The lack of a custom keyboard is a very minor negative IMO.
Pauli
RE: What has the DM41 extra over the HP42s? - grsbanks - 11-05-2020 07:54 AM
"Better" is a subjective term anyway. It all depends if the available feature set is better adapted to the user's individual needs. If it is, then that calculator is clearly better for that individual, but not necessarily for everyone else.