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+-- Forum: HP Calculators (and very old HP Computers) (/forum-3.html)
+--- Forum: HP Prime (/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: The actuel Prime future... (/thread-1971.html)
RE: The actuel Prime future... - debrouxl - 08-17-2014 07:14 PM
Don't forget pure Linux running on bare metal in the usually open-minded, and cheap, Chromebooks
Virtualization (on x86-based Chromebooks), emulation (on ARM-based Chromebooks), Google cloud (or private cloud ala e.g. ownCloud) are optional.
But I disgress.
RE: The actuel Prime future... - akmon - 08-17-2014 09:48 PM
Do you remember the ubergraphx proyect? it was canceled, but the idea was very good. http://www.omnimaga.org/ubergraphx/ubergraphx-ubercalculator/
I bought the prime with the hope if someone could develop several platforms. Several calculador in just one.
RE: The actuel Prime future... - debrouxl - 08-18-2014 05:58 AM
Third-party calculator projects based on purely custom hardware raised users' hopes, but the fact is that all such projects made over the years were always canceled early in the development cycle. One such project, on yAronet, raised my hopes when I was a newbie, but then I found that we still had many things to discover about existing calculators.
AFAICT in the communities I've attended for more than a decade, the only projects which ever got off the ground are the more pragmatic projects of modifying existing calculator hardware and/or software. The HP community has several projects of that kind, and there's also the recent ArithMax E301 from cnCalc (also mentioned on TI-Planet).
The ArithMax E301 replaces the main PCB of a low-end Casio calculator clone with newer, more powerful components, but keeps the casing, screen and keyboard. Even though they're extremely limited by modern standards - even cheap smartphones are ludicrously more powerful - the ArithMax E301's hardware specs are far better than those of the vast majority of calculator models from the well-known manufacturers, sold by millions...
But sadly, there's no way such third-party calculators, designed to be powerful and versatile, would get accepted in the silly standardized exam tests regulated by stupid people... and as such, they can only appeal to a minority of users.
RE: The actuel Prime future... - Eddie W. Shore - 08-18-2014 07:23 PM
(08-13-2014 03:49 PM)Marcel Wrote: I search for the Prime for the back to school and nothing... I think that HP will not continu to support the Prime... May be a new Prime for next year...
I feel sad because this is really a great calculator (very fast) but a lots of bugs.
Marcel
If there is a Fry's Electronics in your area, try that store. The Fry's where I live (Industry, CA - eastern Los Angeles county) carriers pretty much all the HP Calcs, including the prime. University bookstores may also be a good place to look. Good luck!
RE: The actuel Prime future... - Marcel - 08-18-2014 11:00 PM
Hi Eddie
Thank you for your response.
Marcel.
RE: The actuel Prime future... - René Franquinet - 08-19-2014 02:53 PM
Some thoughts about the HP Prime and the WP34S.
Last week I ordered and received the HP Prime. Since about 35 years I am using HP calculators (and for some time even HP notebooks and handhelds like the Jornada). You will understand that I did not buy the Prime out of need of calculating power (also a US$ 5 calculator can help there). I bought it because of curiosity. HP says: Say hello to the evolution of handheld calculating in a sleek, slim, brushed metal design that looks great and performs even better. I do not yet have an opinion on the Prime, but I think I would never have imagined such a boasting advertising text.
There are two things I was asking myself. The WP34S has/had an enormous potential. The undeniably intelligent professional and amateur developers of this marvel were limited to the physical boundaries of WP34S's carrier, the HP20B or HP30B. If only they could have made use of the hardware the Prime is made of! The WP34S people were obliged to make use of all possible key-combinations of the existing keys to enable entering data and using functions/constants etc. Of course the use of an overlay was needed as the keys of the HP20B/30B became obsolete after reprogramming the machine. With the Prime we have a touch-sensitive device plus real keys, a combination that would have made the WP34S a very nice and very portable, user friendly calculator: with built in help on everything you need to know about it.
I think the WP34S already is the best calculator as such, but then it would be the most flexible and powerful calculator. And of course I am a RPN-lover.
RE: The actuel Prime future... - walter b - 08-19-2014 04:27 PM
René,
merci for your very kind words. Just three remarks:
- Project target of the WP 34S was to create a serious scientific pocket calculator. At the time we started (2008) there was no Prime - but if there were it wouldn't have qualified as a suitable platform.
- We did contact HP in the matter of what became the WP 34S. Pauli can tell you details.
- There is - as you may know - a new project called 43S. Again, this shall become a scientific pocket calculator, though based on a more powerful HW. You'll find plenty of information about it searching this forum, so I won't repeat it here.
d:-)
RE: The actuel Prime future... - Kevin Ouellet - 08-20-2014 08:34 PM
I would like if someone from HP could explain me the reasoning between the outrageous pricetags/MSRPs for HP calculators in Canada. Here is the approximate price difference between USA and Canadian prices as of November 2013 (exchange rate was approximately $0.90 USD):
TI-83+
US: $105 CAN: $125 ($20 difference)
TI-84+
US: $120 CAN: $140 ($20 difference)
TI-84+CSE
US: $130 CAN $150 ($10 difference)
TI-Nspire CX
US: $150 CAN $165 ($15 difference)
TI-89 Titanium
US: $150 CAN $160 ($10 difference. Used to be $40 difference)
Casio FX-9750Gii
US: $50 CAN: $60 ($10 difference)
Casio FX-9860Gii
US $80 CAN: $90 ($10 difference)
Casio FX-cg10
US: $130 CAN: $130 (same pricetag)
Casio ClassPad 330+
US: $140 CAN: Not sold in Canada
Casio ClassPad II
US: Not sold in USA CAN: $170
HP Prime
US: $140 CAN: Not sold in Canada
HP 50g
US: $90 CAN: $210!!! ($120 difference)
What gives? I know TI is located in Texas and Texans are extremely patriotic to their country compared to other states, so with the exception of the TI-Nspire series due to terrible sales, Canadian TI prices were always higher than in USA even when the Canadian dollar was worth $1.10 USD, but what's with the double price difference for HP calcs? A $210 pricetag for a 50g is pretty much on-par with what it costs in Europe, where everything is about double the price. It almost looks like Canadian stores are getting their supply from HP Europe instead of the US branch.
RE: The actuel Prime future... - walter b - 08-20-2014 08:58 PM
Well, if you're complaing about HP's prices in Canada, what shall we Europeans do? Cry?
d:-(
That seems just the way 'fair trade' reads when going this way. Low prices at home, high prices for the rest of the world.
RE: The actuel Prime future... - Don Shepherd - 08-20-2014 09:58 PM
(08-20-2014 08:34 PM)Kevin Ouellet Wrote: Texans are extremely patriotic to their country compared to other states
Oh, I don't think residents of Texas have the market cornered on patriotism in the US. If you did a survey on patriotism, or "love of country," I suspect rural areas would score a lot higher, in general, than the urban centers. But, in general, US citizens are pretty patriotic, and many homes display the US flag in the front yard. Compare that with Germany where very few citizens fly the flag (I am told by German friends who visited me last year and were amazed at the plethora of US flags displayed in homes).
RE: The actuel Prime future... - eried - 08-20-2014 10:17 PM
Hahaha! $120+ ? that's only the the taxes here!
But I got first without taxes (customs does not check cheap shipments if they don't say "phone" or "tablet" , etc)
RE: The actuel Prime future... - Kevin Ouellet - 08-21-2014 03:55 AM
(08-20-2014 10:17 PM)eried Wrote: Hahaha! $120+ ? that's only the the taxes here!
But I got first without taxes (customs does not check cheap shipments if they don't say "phone" or "tablet" , etc)
Lol actually the $210 price tag was before taxes in Canada. To be fair, the actual price tag is $207.99, but with Quebec taxes it's well over $230. $210 is over twice the US price. Even when the CDN dollar was worth $0.61 I could still get a TI-89 for $199.99 before taxes.
(08-20-2014 08:58 PM)walter b Wrote: Well, if you're complaing about HP's prices in Canada, what shall we Europeans do? Cry?
d:-(
That seems just the way 'fair trade' reads when going this way. Low prices at home, high prices for the rest of the world.
The thing is that if you look at many electronics, the price difference is about 10-20% in Canada. For example, new video games launch at $64.99 for the Wii U and $69.99 for PS4/Xbox One in Canada and in USA $59.99 for all three systems. They even used to launch at $59.99 for a short while here. Basically the price difference is the exchange rate. For TI calcs, there is a minimal difference besides the exchange rate, but HP calc price difference is just outrageous. There's no excuse why the price difference between USA and Canada should be this high compared to other products. No wonder why HP calcs sell so poorly in Canada and why many retailers no longer carry them...
RE: The actuel Prime future... - Sylvain Cote - 08-21-2014 05:59 AM
(08-20-2014 08:58 PM)walter b Wrote: Well, if you're complaing about HP's prices in Canada, what shall we Europeans do? Cry?You should ... I do ;-)
(08-21-2014 03:55 AM)Kevin Ouellet Wrote: There's no excuse why the price difference between USA and Canada should be this
high compared to other products. No wonder why HP calcs sell so poorly in Canada
and why many retailers no longer carry them...
I completely agree.
Like I said before, HP has always overpriced their handhelds in Canada.
Between the 70's and the 90's, they had brand recognition, the technology,
the Wow factor and dedicated users that was doing underground marketing for them.
Also, because most Canadian citizen was not aware of the price difference between
here and USA, they happily bought HP calculators at the inflated price.
Then several thing happened ...
> HP changed from an engineering driven company to a marketing driven one
> in 1993 the web was introduced through Mosaic
> in 1995 the Internet started being available to the general public
> soon afterward commercial web site selling calculators at USA prices appears.
> then they applied the following algorithm:
Code:
10 kill the calculator division
20 wait until sales start going down
30 start a new calculator division elsewhere
40 hire a new development team
50 buy external IP from people/company
60 release new calculators
70 goto 10What still surprise me today, after they almost lost everything, HP Canada still
think they can sell their calculators at the inflated price here even after the
Canadian closed market has been busted by the Internet.
Sylvain
RE: The actuel Prime future... - cutterjohn - 08-21-2014 01:04 PM
I think it was last fall maybe that I saw a 50g at a BestBuy. It's price was NOT $90, but $150. I had previously ordered one in the winter for c. $95 from Amazon and at that time they were NOT to be found in ANY store.
IIRC they were no HPs at all in any of the stores, just Casios and TIs.
I haven't been to any store that might even have a slim chance of carrying a higher end calc, but I will tell you this, they WILL be priced @ (or very close to) whatever the MSRP is -> usually MUCH cheaper ordering online.
FX-CP400: yes, it's available in the US, but again, just not seen in any stores. Hell I've yet to even see a CX CAS in a store.
TI-83+/84+: HTF do they get away selling 1980s(have they changed the firmware on those much since then?) tech for more than I can order a 50g(c. $90 now online) or a Prime(c. $115 now)?
RE: The actuel Prime future... - Don Shepherd - 08-21-2014 01:59 PM
(08-21-2014 01:04 PM)cutterjohn Wrote: TI-83+/84+: HTF do they get away selling 1980s(have they changed the firmware on those much since then?) tech for more than I can order a 50g(c. $90 now online) or a Prime(c. $115 now)?
I've often wondered why that TI-84 is priced at $119 (or more!) at Office Depot instead of the $15 it ought to be. It probably has a lot to do with too many teachers "recommending" the TI-84 to their students, and TI supplying classroom calculators to schools at a whole lot less than $119 a pop. Parents don't want their kids to be left behind in math class, God knows it's tough enough as it is. Talk about a "cash cow." Eventually, smart phones will end the education calculator market permanently, so TI is cashing in while it can.
RE: The actuel Prime future... - Harold A Climer - 08-21-2014 02:09 PM
(08-14-2014 12:24 PM)rprosperi Wrote:(08-13-2014 10:20 PM)Don Shepherd Wrote: The future probably belongs to smart phones. I'm not a fan of those, but tomorrow I turn 64, so I'm a fossil. I think calculators will soon follow.
Happy Birthday Don!
I do not know about most teachers,but in my classes, as well as in other Physics and Engineering classes, Cell Phone calculator apps, etc. are forbidden, especially in exams. We have had instances, early on, of students using their cell phones or tablets during exams to communicate with people outside class.
We now only allow stand alone calculators.
In some Engineering classes it is even more restrictive, and some Engineering professors only allow calculators approved by the people who give the Engineering and Surveying national exams
RE: The actuel Prime future... - Kevin Ouellet - 08-25-2014 05:21 AM
(08-21-2014 01:59 PM)Don Shepherd Wrote:(08-21-2014 01:04 PM)cutterjohn Wrote: TI-83+/84+: HTF do they get away selling 1980s(have they changed the firmware on those much since then?) tech for more than I can order a 50g(c. $90 now online) or a Prime(c. $115 now)?
I've often wondered why that TI-84 is priced at $119 (or more!) at Office Depot instead of the $15 it ought to be. It probably has a lot to do with too many teachers "recommending" the TI-84 to their students, and TI supplying classroom calculators to schools at a whole lot less than $119 a pop. Parents don't want their kids to be left behind in math class, God knows it's tough enough as it is. Talk about a "cash cow." Eventually, smart phones will end the education calculator market permanently, so TI is cashing in while it can.
It has to do with offer and demand. Same reason why NBA Elite 11 for the Playstation 3 costs $800 on Ebay and why the NTSC version of FIFA 14 for the Playstation 2 will most likely do the same in a decade. That said, maybe offer and demand is what drives Canadian HP calc prices this high?
(but again, by that logic, a TI link cable would cost over $70,000 in brick and mortar stores)As for the $90 HP 50g price tag I saw it on Amazon last year, not in a brick and mortar store. Same for the $208 price tag in Canada (it was on Best Buy website). The American Best Buy site charged $137 for it back then.
RE: The actuel Prime future... - cutterjohn - 08-26-2014 01:57 PM
(08-25-2014 05:21 AM)Kevin Ouellet Wrote:To add what I find to be a hilarious(to me at least aside), I happened to be trawling ebay(US only) yesterday and literally found TONs of TI nSpires, nSpire Touchpads, and both with CAS for SIGNIFICANTLY less than even TI 83/4+?! (nspires started at c. $40 while 83/4s where c. $75...)(08-21-2014 01:59 PM)Don Shepherd Wrote: I've often wondered why that TI-84 is priced at $119 (or more!) at Office Depot instead of the $15 it ought to be. It probably has a lot to do with too many teachers "recommending" the TI-84 to their students, and TI supplying classroom calculators to schools at a whole lot less than $119 a pop. Parents don't want their kids to be left behind in math class, God knows it's tough enough as it is. Talk about a "cash cow." Eventually, smart phones will end the education calculator market permanently, so TI is cashing in while it can.
It has to do with offer and demand. Same reason why NBA Elite 11 for the Playstation 3 costs $800 on Ebay and why the NTSC version of FIFA 14 for the Playstation 2 will most likely do the same in a decade. That said, maybe offer and demand is what drives Canadian HP calc prices this high?
As for the $90 HP 50g price tag I saw it on Amazon last year, not in a brick and mortar store. Same for the $208 price tag in Canada (it was on Best Buy website). The American Best Buy site charged $137 for it back then.
Some of those 83/4s had screen that had been to hell and back(looked like burn marks, stuck pixels but always with a caveat: you can still make out the numbers... ROFLMAO! meanwhile the nSpires looked in pretty decent shape. (Many were apparently former school property as they had the yellow plastic covers, etc.)
So I also bought an older nspire for $50(had 84+ keypad and cables, so worth the $10 over the $40 one was a touchpad as well... I just like that keyboard better, and sent an offer to one of the 84+s with a decent screen for quite a bit less, awaiting the acceptance/decline ATM. I just want to see recent TIs and what they did to their old ones as I have an 85 kicking around that was given to me. Never got around to buying/making a data cable for it. Why bother? I had a 49g...
Back to our topic:
Pretty much no truly high end calcs are available in the stores near me, Target, Wallymart, Sears, WorstBuy, etc. Didn't check at ucenter as I didn't think that they'd carry calcs, and haven't been to a uni book store in a long time. (Went last time specifically to buy my 49g, but since then it's just less frustrating(and cheaper) to buy online... (OK I did check for 50gs at WorstBuy/et. al. but at the time they had ZERO HP calcs on shelves, just TI 8Xs and nspires and casios and maybe some cheap sharps... I think that one of the office supply b&ms had ti-89 Ti though, also ridiculously priced...)
RE: The actuel Prime future... - Don Shepherd - 08-26-2014 03:40 PM
Is there a future for traditional calculators in the education market? As Harold said above, this probably depends to a large extent on the standardized tests. But, isn't it possible to design tests that don't require a calculator at all (how were standardized tests done before 1972)? When we start to teach algebra, we say that an answer of \(\sqrt{41}\) is just as good as 6.40. And wouldn't an answer of sin(29 degrees) be as good as .485? If students don't need calculators for standardized tests, and teachers stop requiring them as well, then there is no market for calculators, as standalone devices or smartphone-based. I'm not a scientist or engineer, so I don't know if those professional exams could really be done without certain functions requiring a calculator (although I learned how to estimate square roots way back in 1965; they haven't taught that skill in decades).
RE: The actuel Prime future... - walter b - 08-26-2014 04:17 PM
What's the 'education market' according to you? Do you talk about students or students? The little or the big ones? (I love the ambiguities of that language.)
I concur that students at school (up to the age of let's say 13 IIRC) don't need a calculator at all - in fact it's even contraproductive since mathematical education suffers IMHO. As soon as 'scientific' functions like roots, logs, and trigs come in, suitable calculators should be allowed (you don't want to fall back to table books, do you?). And in science and engineering at university, well, banning calculators would be off real world - your studies shall prepare you for professional life after all. In any case, a good test is one you can't solve without a good understanding of the topic covered - a test you just solve since your calculator has more horsepower than the one of your fellow student is a bad one per definition.
Thus, there is a market for solid calculators (regardless of 'standardized tests' conducted in the USA or not). Whether these calculators will be models like we know them or apps on smartphones, I can't guess. On the education market, the outcome may depend on cheating ...
Just my 20m€.
d:-)