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+-- Forum: HP Calculators (and very old HP Computers) (/forum-3.html)
+--- Forum: General Forum (/forum-4.html)
+--- Thread: HP Archeves (/thread-8801.html)
Pages: 1 2
RE: HP Archeves - EugeneNine - 08-12-2017 01:56 AM
So many ways to skin the cat^D^D^Dbook. I'm going to try this printer/scanner I have and see how well it does. Some ADF's are better than others about keeping the paper straight.
RE: HP Archeves - Duane Hess - 08-12-2017 02:39 AM
FYI, after manualsplus.com closed, I believe they donated their inventory to archive.org. They were a technical manual reseller and had (if I recall) over 1000+ HP & Agilent publications in addition to 100's of thousands of non-HP technical publications. I've used archive.org only a little bit & its slipped my mind until now. They closed in 2015; bought a couple 1970 instrumentation manuals from them. Don't know if they had HP-calc stuff or not. Would assume it'd take years to get scanned & online, they might of had over 1 million items.
Referring to old scanners didn't Canon have an "edge" scanner so you could wedge a book in it so the page would be flat and the binding didn't need to be obliterated?
EDIT: (+ a few minutes)
The Canon flatbed I'm thinking of is years old, but I'm sure other vendors currently have book flatbed scanners which do the same. i.e. the glass goes to the edge of the device and they scan a few millimeters from the edge of the glass.
It might take some work, but I would not be surprised if there are larger libraries with such facilities. Also book stores & librarys have book trimmers which would zip an binding right off. Seems to me, it would be nice to avoid that.
RE: HP Archeves - BruceH - 08-13-2017 10:27 PM
(08-09-2017 04:58 PM)Wyrmrider Wrote: I have a large collection of HP calculator archives from the 70's and 80'sWhere do you live, please? (country and town)
I'm moving and they need a new home
I was HPPC member back then
I wrote a HP simulator in FORTH which would run ALL the HP add on Pacs
at least 8 feet of bookshelf and several file drawers
please advise of best place to make deposit
RE: HP Archeves - Sylvain Cote - 08-14-2017 12:47 AM
(08-13-2017 10:27 PM)BruceH Wrote: Where do you live, please? (country and town)
His profile says: Los Angeles (assuming: CA, USA)
http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/user-7229.html
RE: HP Archeves - rprosperi - 08-14-2017 12:56 AM
Though the OP says "I was HPPC member back then", the Los Angeles residence suggests he probably meant "PPC" (LA area is where PPC was started, HQ, etc.); also HPCC didn't exist yet in the 70's.
RE: HP Archeves - Duane Hess - 08-14-2017 04:06 AM
Anyone PM or e-mail the OP? It appears he has logged in maybe twice.
Would think it appropriate a senior member would do so.
RE: HP Archeves - rprosperi - 08-14-2017 02:40 PM
(08-14-2017 04:06 AM)Duane Hess Wrote: Anyone PM or e-mail the OP? It appears he has logged in maybe twice.
Would think it appropriate a senior member would do so.
Good idea Duane, I just emailed him to try to clarify his intentions, and will share his reply.
RE: HP Archeves - Chris Dreher - 08-16-2017 03:41 PM
(08-12-2017 02:39 AM)Duane Hess Wrote: FYI, after manualsplus.com closed, I believe they donated their inventory to archive.org. They were a technical manual reseller and had (if I recall) over 1000+ HP & Agilent publications in addition to 100's of thousands of non-HP technical publications. I've used archive.org only a little bit & its slipped my mind until now. They closed in 2015; bought a couple 1970 instrumentation manuals from them. Don't know if they had HP-calc stuff or not. Would assume it'd take years to get scanned & online, they might of had over 1 million items.
Referring to old scanners didn't Canon have an "edge" scanner so you could wedge a book in it so the page would be flat and the binding didn't need to be obliterated?
EDIT: (+ a few minutes)
The Canon flatbed I'm thinking of is years old, but I'm sure other vendors currently have book flatbed scanners which do the same. i.e. the glass goes to the edge of the device and they scan a few millimeters from the edge of the glass.
It might take some work, but I would not be surprised if there are larger libraries with such facilities. Also book stores & librarys have book trimmers which would zip an binding right off. Seems to me, it would be nice to avoid that.
I was going to mention that there was a Xerox photocopier with a beveled edge. Instead of trying to open the book flat (i.e. 180 degrees open), you only had top open the book most of the way (i.e 135 degrees open). It reduced/eliminated the need to destroy book bindings.
Regarding a different earlier port, if you have a scanner whose drivers don't support the latest OS, try out VueScan. It's what I use on my HP ScanJet 5370C. You can try before you buy.
https://www.hamrick.com/
RE: HP Archives - Dave Frederickson - 08-16-2017 05:57 PM
(08-16-2017 03:41 PM)Chris Dreher Wrote: I was going to mention that there was a Xerox photocopier with a beveled edge. Instead of trying to open the book flat (i.e. 180 degrees open), you only had top open the book most of the way (i.e 135 degrees open). It reduced/eliminated the need to destroy book bindings.
If you want to scan a book or magazine without destroying it's binding, there exists all sorts of fancy photographic equipment for that purpose.
![[Image: bulk-document-or-books-scanning-service_1.png]](http://images.locanto.net/1459355819/bulk-document-or-books-scanning-service_1.png)
![[Image: BookEye-Overhead-Scanner.jpeg]](http://biblemanuscriptsociety.com/Libraries/Misc-Images/BookEye-Overhead-Scanner.jpeg)
I think the Library of Congress uses equipment like this for archiving their books.
By comparison, the Portable PLUS Service manual was scanned using a smartphone camera and some software that would crop the images and correct for any trapezoidal effects. You can even make your own smartphone stand.
![[Image: FMEEF7JI7MY8KYR.RECT2100.jpg]](https://cdn.instructables.com/FME/EF7J/I7MY8KYR/FMEEF7JI7MY8KYR.RECT2100.jpg)
The scan is available here: http://www.jeffcalc.hp41.eu/hpplus/files/servicemanual.pdf
I think it's pretty good for a cheap solution. It all depends on how much you want to spend.
RE: HP Archeves - pier4r - 08-16-2017 07:48 PM
I need the last one! It is also super useful for videos (so I can send some videos to my cousins about math)
It is amazing how some forum threads contains such useful hints!
RE: HP Archeves - Dave Frederickson - 08-17-2017 01:00 AM
(08-16-2017 07:48 PM)pier4r Wrote: I need the last one! It is also super useful for videos (so I can send some videos to my cousins about math)
It is amazing how some forum threads contains such useful hints!
What's really cool about the last one is that with a little modification it doubles as a fire suppression system for those DIY projects.
RE: HP Archeves - toml_12953 - 08-17-2017 02:58 AM
(08-16-2017 05:57 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:(08-16-2017 03:41 PM)Chris Dreher Wrote: I was going to mention that there was a Xerox photocopier with a beveled edge. Instead of trying to open the book flat (i.e. 180 degrees open), you only had top open the book most of the way (i.e 135 degrees open). It reduced/eliminated the need to destroy book bindings.
If you want to scan a book or magazine without destroying it's binding, there exists all sorts of fancy photographic equipment for that purpose.
I think the Library of Congress uses equipment like this for archiving their books.
By comparison, the Portable PLUS Service manual was scanned using a smartphone camera and some software that would crop the images and correct for any trapezoidal effects. You can even make your own smartphone stand.
The scan is available here: http://www.jeffcalc.hp41.eu/hpplus/files/servicemanual.pdf
I think it's pretty good for a cheap solution. It all depends on how much you want to spend.
It looks like those were loose-leaf pages. I need a way to scan books whose pages are glued to a binding. They don't lay flat when opened and no matter how hard I mash down on my scanner's top, the edge of the page closest to the binding always gets distorted.
RE: HP Archeves - Duane Hess - 08-17-2017 04:13 AM
Toml:
I don't have any PDF examples nor specific equipment model numbers, but the equipment Chris Drehr mentioned should allow a page to lay flat. He mentioned a Xerox copier but also there are "flatbed book scanners" or "edge scanners," names like that.
One side of the book hangs (literally) over the side of the flatbed; basically if you have a book with 1" or more space from the binding you should get a flat image.
The Canon unit (from the late 90's?; maybe very early '00s) was beveled or slanted, IIRC. Focusing was also projected (prism?-don't know) from the edge so the paper directly on the glass focused onto the image recording mechanism. i.e. everything was flat down to the approx. 1/8"-1/4" from the glued binding. If I recall, the scanner or scanner utilities could automatically clip the last 1/4" or clip & fill the last 1/4" with whitespace matching the paper. Also, if I recall for even or odd pages, the scanner/utilities could automatically flip the image 180 degrees. As there was only one scanning edge and the book would need to be rotated when going to the other page.
Just an FYI, pretty sure such scanners still exist. Always remembered them as being flatbeds and not much more expensive than "regular" flatbeds.
For what its worth.
Have to admit the leftmost device DaveF shows might be large enough to scan circuit boards. Most inexpensive flatbeds aren't big enough for large circuit boards. Some collectors have wanted PCB images from some of my equipment and still be able to read chip numbers, PCB markings, etc. But I have no good way of accomplishing it. (I'm poor, maybe the leftmost device isn't cheap either) If anyone has good ideas about imaging PCBs would like to know. Only digital cameras I have are cell phones & they don't work well at all, especially when 6"-12" from a surface.
RE: HP Archeves - c_d - 08-17-2017 06:19 AM
There is a project in Germany called automatischer Buchscanner which is able to scan a book page in a very short time by photographing it and tunrning the page automatically. According to the inventor it can be built in about a weekend.
The design data is downloadable according to the following source:
https://www.heise.de/make/meldung/Automatischer-Buchscanner-3D-Konstruktionsdaten-zum-Gratis-Download-3802644.html
One caveat: it is only in german.
RE: HP Archeves - Martin Hepperle - 08-17-2017 07:38 AM
Interesting.
The "one weekend" project is probably more like a "one summer/winter" project. Very professional, but also complex and costly. More suited for a library (e.g. in developing countries) or an organization.
Another simpler "Buchscanner" (more suitable for building at home) was also published in the German Make Magazine. Maybe similar things appeared in the US issues of Make Magazine.
This simpler one was made from wood and uses a camera on a pendulum which swings to take pictures of both pages. You have to turn the pages by hand, though...which may be preferred for valuable books anyway.
https://www.heise.de/make/artikel/Buchscanner-zum-Zusammenklappen-2860162.html
For good quality all these projects use a glass plate (resp. two) to keep the pages flat for photographing. Camera resolution should yield between 300 and 600 dpi on the final page.
See also
http://linearbookscanner.org/
Martin
RE: HP Archeves - Dave Frederickson - 08-17-2017 03:25 PM
(08-17-2017 02:58 AM)toml_12953 Wrote: It looks like those were loose-leaf pages. I need a way to scan books whose pages are glued to a binding. They don't lay flat when opened and no matter how hard I mash down on my scanner's top, the edge of the page closest to the binding always gets distorted.
So what you need is something like the Bookeye 4 in the second pic. With a little creativity I would think that a PVC 45 degree elbow joint could be fashioned to hold a book open at a 135 degree angle. Then the software I mentioned would then correct for distortion, just like the Bookeye 4.
It doesn't automatically turn the pages for you, but it's cheaper.
BTW, the point of my post was to show that modern methods of scanning books use cameras.