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+-- Forum: HP Calculators (and very old HP Computers) (/forum-3.html)
+--- Forum: HP Prime (/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 (/thread-22020.html)
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - Eddie W. Shore - 08-15-2024 12:52 PM
I noticed that when I charge the HP Prime lately, the battery indicator quickly goes from green to yellow (low). I'm thinking it's my calculator needing a new battery (one is on its way), but is anyone else experiencing this?
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - CheshireChris - 08-15-2024 03:53 PM
(08-15-2024 07:25 AM)CheshireChris Wrote: Apologies for the basic question, but where do I copy the firmware file to in order for the HP Connectivity program to copy it to the Prime, please?
Please ignore! Found the folder and successfully installed the latest beta.
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - compsystems - 08-19-2024 03:39 PM
Hello
A suggestion for the connection kit.
The kit should incorporate a source code editing panel without the need to be connected to a physical device. That is to say it should be a kind of IDE, this would motivate to develop Apps for the hp-prime for example in a university center to teach logic programming courses and the like.
Another option should be the connection to the simulator on mobile devices.
And finally a modern and minimalist user interface similar to
https://smallbasic-publicwebsite-code.azurewebsites.ne
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - CheshireChris - 08-19-2024 04:05 PM
(08-19-2024 03:39 PM)compsystems Wrote: The kit should incorporate a source code editing panel without the need to be connected to a physical device. That is to say it should be a kind of IDE, this would motivate to develop Apps for the hp-prime for example in a university center to teach logic programming courses and the like.
The connection kit will connect to the Prime Emulator. Does this not achieve the same effect?
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - Insoft - 08-20-2024 03:05 AM
I’m hoping the macOS connection kit and emulator is finally updated so one can check Python code as well as PPL code.
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - Insoft - 08-21-2024 06:48 PM
(07-11-2024 09:27 AM)8031Brown Wrote: Good news. I hope the user base gets behind this release and gives support and only constructive criticism.
Going forward, I hope not too much time is wasted on Python. I don't use Python. I didn't buy my Prime as a Python device. Indeed, it didn't originally have the Python app. Please do focus on refining PPL.
If other people feel differently I suggest they go and use their PC, tablet, etc. instead.
I recommend using Python alongside PPL to maximize its potential. Python alone isn't ideal for certain tasks, and while PPL has its strengths, performance in some areas may not be optimal without Python's support.
When you combine Python and PPL, you really start to see just how powerful the HP Prime can be.
Try filling the screen pixel by pixel using PPL, and then do the same in Python. You'll quickly see why using Python alongside PPL is the way to go.
Python on the current release has its issues, often crashing when switching from the Python app to other apps. Hopefully, with the new firmware release, Python will become a much smoother experience. It would also be great if PPL could see improvements, like increasing the 10,000 list limit a bit.
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - Giancarlo - 08-23-2024 08:55 AM
Hello,
i have been a fan of Python on Prime since the beginning even if i understand that adding another language into the Prime (mainly done) will complicate further the calcultator maintenance from a sw point of view.
There is something not clear to me though; i don't understand why python would be faster than PPL. in my simplified logic i thought that Python commands and interpreter sits on the same level of PPL. If understand your point it seems that Python sit on a lower lever than PPL (at least in some areas).
I am just curious to understand how micropython is implemented into the calc.
thanks
Giancarlo
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - KeithB - 08-23-2024 01:40 PM
I am not privy to any info, but the code for the Prime is programmed in C, not PPL.
So I am sure that the Python interpreter is compiled C code, probably right from an open source git repo.
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - CheshireChris - 08-23-2024 06:47 PM
(08-23-2024 08:55 AM)Giancarlo Wrote: There is something not clear to me though; i don't understand why python would be faster than PPL. in my simplified logic i thought that Python commands and interpreter sits on the same level of PPL. If understand your point it seems that Python sit on a lower lever than PPL (at least in some areas).
I don't know anything about the specific implementation of Python on the Prime, but Python is usually compiled at runtime, so will execute much faster than a purely interpreted language such as PPL.
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - parisse - 08-24-2024 06:16 AM
(08-23-2024 06:47 PM)CheshireChris Wrote: I don't know anything about the specific implementation of Python on the Prime, but Python is usually compiled at runtime, so will execute much faster than a purely interpreted language such as PPL.
Unlike with languages like Julia, Python programs are not compiled at runtime.
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - CheshireChris - 08-24-2024 11:33 AM
(08-24-2024 06:16 AM)parisse Wrote:(08-23-2024 06:47 PM)CheshireChris Wrote: I don't know anything about the specific implementation of Python on the Prime, but Python is usually compiled at runtime, so will execute much faster than a purely interpreted language such as PPL.
Unlike with languages like Julia, Python programs are not compiled at runtime.
There's an interesting article on the subject here:
https://eddieantonio.ca/blog/2023/10/25/python-is-a-compiled-language/
Well worth reading.
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - Guenter Schink - 08-24-2024 08:34 PM
(08-24-2024 11:33 AM)CheshireChris Wrote: ...
There's an interesting article on the subject here:
https://eddieantonio.ca/blog/2023/10/25/python-is-a-compiled-language/
Well worth reading.
That's indeed very interesting. Just for fun, I typed that little snipped into the Prime
Code:
1 / 0
print() = None
if False
ñ = "helloAlmost, because the sequence of the identification of errors was the same, but the error descriptions were slightly different.
The rebooting was repeatable. Simply delete (reset) the Python app, type in the code again ... and boom! reboot.
The rebooting didn't occur on my Prime with the new beta SW
Günter
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - dbrothers - 08-26-2024 12:28 AM
Forgive a newb question, but exactly where do I copy the beta files on a Mac?
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - parisse - 08-26-2024 07:27 AM
(08-24-2024 11:33 AM)CheshireChris Wrote:This just make more confusion for newbies. Most interpreters will parse the whole source code and some will write bytecode, but that's not compilation like C or Julia does, at the end of the process you do not have native code that can be run by the CPU once loaded, bytecode can not be run without the help of a VM (virtual machine), and it will therefore be slower than native code (2* to 10* or more).(08-24-2024 06:16 AM)parisse Wrote: Unlike with languages like Julia, Python programs are not compiled at runtime.
There's an interesting article on the subject here:
https://eddieantonio.ca/blog/2023/10/25/python-is-a-compiled-language/
Well worth reading.
BTW, MicroPython can issue ARM code (compiled code), but this is not enabled in all calculator brands having a MicroPython implementation.
Julia has one interesting feature, it will compile native code optimized for the CPU you are running on, something that is harder to do with a C compiler. The downsize is that the first time you run your program, you will have to wait the end of compilation, but if you have large computations, it's a really nice feature.
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - CheshireChris - 08-26-2024 07:38 AM
(08-26-2024 07:27 AM)parisse Wrote: This just make more confusion for newbies. Most interpreters will parse the whole source code and some will write bytecode, but that's not compilation like C or Julia does, at the end of the process you do not have native code that can be run by the CPU once loaded, bytecode can not be run without the help of a VM (virtual machine), and it will therefore be slower than native code (2* to 10* or more).
A compiler doesn't have to emit machine code in order to be a compiler. The process of converting a high-level language to bytecode is still compilation, and that does appear to be what's happening with Python on the Prime, which is the reason that it runs so much faster than PPL.
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - nbenm - 08-26-2024 08:12 AM
(08-26-2024 07:38 AM)CheshireChris Wrote: A compiler doesn't have to emit machine code in order to be a compiler. The process of converting a high-level language to bytecode is still compilation
Of course, you are right. I think parisse, even if not clearly said, was talking about compiling *and* linking.
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - CheshireChris - 08-26-2024 08:28 AM
(08-26-2024 12:28 AM)dbrothers Wrote: Forgive a newb question, but exactly where do I copy the beta files on a Mac?
On a Windows PC, it's the folder "documents/HP Connectivity Kit/Firmware". I'm sure it'll be something very similar on a Mac. Search for "HP Connectivity Kit". All you have to do is replace the existing contents of the "Firmware" folder by what's in the beta firmware ZIP file. The next time you start the connectivity kit and connect the Prime, you'll automatically be asked if you want to update the firmware.
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - parisse - 08-26-2024 11:18 AM
(08-26-2024 07:38 AM)CheshireChris Wrote:I disagree with your definition of compilation (and indeed when I speak of compiled vs interpreted language, compilation includes the linking step). Many (most?) interpreters are converting a string to some kind of bytecode. For example TI calculators are parsing to tokenized expressions, that can later be evaled like bytecode is run by a VM. Symbolic RPN expressions on the HP48/49/50 are also bytecode, produced by the parser, e.g. the fraction '1/2' is translated to sysRPL as :: %1 %2 x/ ; (5*2.5 bytes unless I make a mistake) and evaluated ("run") to 0.5, and any RPL program is also translated to sysRPL "bytecode" (:: x<< ... x>> ; ). Would you say that RPL is a compiled language?(08-26-2024 07:27 AM)parisse Wrote: This just make more confusion for newbies. Most interpreters will parse the whole source code and some will write bytecode, but that's not compilation like C or Julia does, at the end of the process you do not have native code that can be run by the CPU once loaded, bytecode can not be run without the help of a VM (virtual machine), and it will therefore be slower than native code (2* to 10* or more).
A compiler doesn't have to emit machine code in order to be a compiler. The process of converting a high-level language to bytecode is still compilation, and that does appear to be what's happening with Python on the Prime, which is the reason that it runs so much faster than PPL.
I did not make comparisons with PPL, but I'm surprised when you say it's "much faster" than PPL, it probably depends on the kind of code you are running. Native code *is* much faster than MicroPython or PPL, for sure (e.g. displaying a Mandelbrot fractal on a calc will take 1mn in MicroPython vs a few seconds native code). And on a PC, native compiled code is much faster than Python code (unless you can really compile Python code using e.g. Cython). Expect a factor 10 or more with Python on scientific computations.
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - Guenter Schink - 08-26-2024 03:59 PM
(08-24-2024 08:34 PM)Guenter Schink Wrote: The rebooting was repeatable. Simply delete (reset) the Python app, type in the code again ... and boom! reboot.
It's not necessary even to type in the entire code snippet. After resetting Python (<del>) any syntax error (in the editor), be it "1/0" or a missing colon or false assignment (e.g. "a = b" with b not existing already) will reboot the Prime once you press <Num>.
Fw 2.1.14730 (2023 04 13). The Beta FW 2.2 (r15048) doesn't show this behavior
Günter
.
RE: HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008 - dbrothers - 08-27-2024 01:06 AM
(08-26-2024 08:28 AM)CheshireChris Wrote:(08-26-2024 12:28 AM)dbrothers Wrote: Forgive a newb question, but exactly where do I copy the beta files on a Mac?
On a Windows PC, it's the folder "documents/HP Connectivity Kit/Firmware". I'm sure it'll be something very similar on a Mac. Search for "HP Connectivity Kit". All you have to do is replace the existing contents of the "Firmware" folder by what's in the beta firmware ZIP file. The next time you start the connectivity kit and connect the Prime, you'll automatically be asked if you want to update the firmware.
On the Mac, the app in the Applications folder is a package file (it’s a file, so no subfolders). I did a Spotlight search for “firmware” and found several folders. One, by its path, was related to the Prime Connectivity Kit. Dragging the downloaded firmware file to this folder appeared not to work, but copy and paste did work.
I had to manually initiate the update, it wasn’t automatic. Result: I’m running the beta.