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newbie to Prime - Printable Version

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newbie to Prime - edvonessen - 06-06-2018 03:20 AM

need help getting started up arrow button not bringing up HOME stays in "X2 + Y2 = 1 " start-up swre. have -48 -50 -11C, 15C etc sold -41's. Anybody know how. Also how to install Connectivity kit? disgusted Ed(VE)


RE: newbie to Prime - cyrille de brébisson - 06-07-2018 05:22 AM

Hello,

This is strange. I am sorry that you are having this bad experience.
Lots of things might be wrong there, and we need to figure out which one it is...

The most likely cause is that you have some "bad files" in the calculator that is causing a crash at boot time. Formating the flash (hard drive) should fix this.

To format the flash: Press and HOLD the C, F and O keys. With these keys pressed press the reset button. wait for the calculator to reset. It should go to the "Diagnostic screen". Press the 4 key (FLS utility) then the 3 key (Format disk C) and ENTER to validate to erase all files. Once completed, reset the calculator again.

If it works, great. Else, there is something else. Maybe the OS is not correctly loaded in the calculator (or has been damaged or erased). In this case, you would need to reinstall the OS (Firmware update).

To do this, press and HOLD the symb key and reset the calcualtor once again. It should reboot in the bootloader/system update mode. Connect the calculator to a PC with the con kit running and it should update automatically (well, you probably will need to do a couple of clicks on the PC).
You can download the connectivity kit from: http://ftp.ftp.hp.com/pub/calculators/Prime/

Good luck,
Cyrille


RE: newbie to Prime - edvonessen - 06-08-2018 12:07 AM

Thanks Cyrille I should also have mentioned that the display shows a padlock icon in the center of the screen. Is there a locking procedure and if so, how does one reverse this. Ed(VE) Note that none of the keys do anything, same for tapping. And the display cycles thru what appears to be a language selection but again, no response to the keyboard or finger. Ed


RE: newbie to Prime - Tim Wessman - 06-08-2018 03:33 AM

Slide the padlock to the side following the arrows.


RE: newbie to Prime - edvonessen - 06-09-2018 02:40 AM

Found User Guide on disc and can now do rudementary arithmatic in Home. Wow....


RE: newbie to Prime - Stevetuc - 06-09-2018 05:18 AM

(06-09-2018 02:40 AM)edvonessen Wrote:  Found User Guide on disc and can now do rudementary arithmatic in Home. Wow....

Rudimentary, or was the Prime being mildly offensive?


RE: newbie to Prime - Robert VM - 06-09-2018 12:00 PM

(06-09-2018 05:18 AM)Stevetuc Wrote:  Rudimentary, or was the Prime being mildly offensive?
:-)


RE: newbie to Prime - edvonessen - 06-10-2018 12:56 AM

When the documentation is slipshod, who's to blame? Even in quick start? After all, this is just a calculator. Not a 6800 or an 8080 or an 8086 or a Z-80 or a TMS TI cpu.
Add the RCA CMOS cpu. Then get into solar trackers and light measuring equipment working under water or simulators for study of control systems for rotating space stations. ETC.

No, slipshod. A little piece of paper with instructions to move the padlock icon with ones finger to the side? Where?

HP used to be better.

Oh, add the Fairchild F-8 cpu. Assembly spoken. Long time ago.

Ed(VE)


RE: newbie to Prime - Stevetuc - 06-10-2018 08:25 AM

(06-10-2018 12:56 AM)edvonessen Wrote:  When the documentation is slipshod, who's to blame? Even in quick start? After all, this is just a calculator. Not a 6800 or an 8080 or an 8086 or a Z-80 or a TMS TI cpu.
Add the RCA CMOS cpu. Then get into solar trackers and light measuring equipment working under water or simulators for study of control systems for rotating space stations. ETC.

No, slipshod. A little piece of paper with instructions to move the padlock icon with ones finger to the side? Where?

HP used to be better.

Oh, add the Fairchild F-8 cpu. Assembly spoken. Long time ago.

Ed(VE)

Wow.. May I humbly suggest reading this:
https://personalexcellence.co/blog/constructive-criticism/


RE: newbie to Prime - Tim Wessman - 06-10-2018 08:29 AM

So how would *you* have made that screen clearer without using any language and only images? The target for Prime is a generation of people that have used smartphones and find the whole "slide to unlock" thing pretty self explanatory.

Nobody is going to read a piece of paper with the calculator. Nobody even reads the quick start guide that comes with it and hence it will go to download only in the future.

The original screen showed a finger touching the circle and dragging to the side. That was confusing to people. Simply changing to to show some arrows showing you something to do on the screen resulted in (until now) not a single complaint of "what do I do here?" So I ask again, how would I have made this screen more clear without resorting to language when a language has not yet been selected?


RE: newbie to Prime - edvonessen - 06-11-2018 12:32 AM

Hello Tim Thank you for the reply. Let me explain: I am now in my 94th year, have an electrical engineering degree, been retired for years, do not use the phone (it is a Princess land line model and remains unplugged due to advertising), am involved with a Yahoo groop associated with FM Tuners, the high-end variety, am developing driver circuitry for 32 Ohm headphones for use with these tuners (i have a Yamaha T-85 used for a test signal) just to keep occupied. The driver is made from obsolete discrete parts (like the T-85) and includes a CFP, complementary feedback pair, stage. It has been a learning experience, too. Low voltage, low impedance requirements. 32 Ohm headphone signals are in the millivolts.

So that is all about the current me. No smartphone but uses calculators, starting with a -35, the first programable HP model. Better than a P & E log-log decitrig slide rule with a 30 inch cube scale.

well, your question regarding language and who to address marketing-wise and how to get the buyer to unlock, my question is if the user will intuitively move the padlock to the side, why bother to have it? Will the young user with smart phone experience just do as the screen requests and us other users have to ask? Even if I am the only one?

And I turned to the quick start guide for info. I guess I've become obsolete, relying on paper info these days. And that is why I came to this forum for help. I figured someone here would know how and let me know. And that is also why I used the Newbie designation. Jeez.

And as an aside, just how is a smartphone SMART? Does ir REASON or THINK? There was a game called Pawns years ago. It could be made to reason and not defeated, ever. It reasoned. Phone? Not the game, but reasoning. and not canned answers which we so often get. Went for help on something else the other day and wound up realizing I was communicating with a computer. And getting no help.

So, Tim, good to hear from you. No, I do not have an answer for you regarding your turn-on screen. Can't help. Obsolete, like the transistors I'm using.

Regards

skoal

Ed(VE)



.


RE: newbie to Prime - cyrille de brébisson - 06-11-2018 05:25 AM

Hello Ed,

We ran into issues with early Primes where the cheer mass of calculators in a pallet/box would turn calculator ON during transit and storage.

This resulted in calculator battery being drainned by the time they arrived in customer's hands :-(

This is where the "lock" screen comes from. It was created to force a user interaction with the calculator at start time (and it auto power offs after only 30s), to try to limit the damages described above.

The "slide to unlock" followed by a setup wizzard screen is indeed a standard of today's smartphones...
This actually had to be explained to me as I personally use a "dumbPhone"! (https://static.fnac-static.com/multimedia/FR/Images_Produits/FR/fnac.com/Visual_Principal_340/4/0/4/8806085126404/tsp20130211175516/Samsung-E1200-Noir.jpg) Which is actually trying to be too smart for it's own good. "Bring Back the 6110!!!"

This asside, I do understand your disarray faced with a completely new concept, especially when it is not documented! I will see what we can do about adding this in the Quick Start Guide.

Now that it does work, I do hope that you will enjoy your Prime and find it usefull (if not smart)!

Cyrille


RE: newbie to Prime - edvonessen - 06-12-2018 02:48 AM

Cyrille, et al.
Thanks much for the shipping problem explanation. Packages do get tossed around. And firmware corrects a hardware problem......

Now that I have started, the Prime is in RPN and I should not have any further problems. There is much to read. There are the -50 and -48 manuals here for some reference, too. Thanks.
skoal
Ed(VE)


RE: newbie to Prime - cyrille de brébisson - 06-12-2018 04:46 AM

Hello,

The Prime manual is quite good, and not a short read!

The 48 manual is good for function references as most of the math functions are common between the 48 and Prime.

I would also advise/direct you to the giac (Computer Algebra System:CAS) documentation (toward the bottom of this page: https://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~parisse/giac.html )

RPN is nice for number crushing, but as soon as you want to start tapping advanced features of the calculator, RPN is somewhat limited. One of the main issue is the use of variable arguement count functions. Althrough we did introduce the parenthesis notation to deal wit this, it is not very natural...

But it all depends on what you want to do anyway...

Have a good time with your Prime
Cyrille


RE: newbie to Prime - burkhard - 07-02-2018 05:21 PM

(06-12-2018 04:46 AM)cyrille de brébisson Wrote:  RPN is nice for number crushing, but as soon as you want to start tapping advanced features of the calculator, RPN is somewhat limited.

Sigh... I just have the feeling that the Prime and I (who isn't even quite sold on RPL) are never going to be buddies. But hey, as long as there is a market for it and it has fan community support, that is fine.

:-)


RE: newbie to Prime - cyrille de brébisson - 07-03-2018 04:54 AM

Hello,

Yes, comming from a pure RPL calcualtor like the 48GX, Prime is a change...

But it is a very good calculator and very much worth the time it takes to get used to it.

Cyrille


RE: newbie to Prime - JimP - 07-04-2018 12:42 PM

(06-10-2018 08:29 AM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  Nobody is going to read a piece of paper with the calculator. Nobody even reads the quick start guide that comes with it and hence it will go to download only in the future.

I must beg to differ — the quick start guide was the first thing I read before beginning to use my Prime — I only wish that the full manual had been hard copy as well. Guess I’m a Luddite...!


RE: newbie to Prime - cyrille de brébisson - 07-05-2018 05:53 AM

Hello,

I wish that we had stats on things like that...

The "Nobody" states by Tim is of course not an absolute. We do know that some people do read it, but they are indeed few and far between (and a lot of them are in this forum!).

In the rare occasion where I visit a school, I often ask the kids if they have read the user manuals/instruction for their calculators. The best I ever got was 2 hands out of 30!

Cyrille