HP-35 origin - Printable Version +- HP Forums ( https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum)+-- Forum: HP Calculators (and very old HP Computers) ( /forum-3.html)+--- Forum: General Forum ( /forum-4.html)+--- Thread: HP-35 origin ( /thread-10927.html) |

HP-35 origin - hibiki - 06-16-2018 10:58 PM
http://codex99.com/design/the-hp35.html I found this site about the HP 35 history. I know that there are a lot of pages about the same matter and sorry if it was already posted here. I did not know how HP priced its products: the cost multiplied by a factor of "PI" or "e", that was curious to me. For those who do not know the page, it´s very cool. RE: HP-35 origin - TomC - 06-17-2018 05:56 PM
This is an interesting blog. There are some most interesting claims. It would be helpful to have a list of annotated references - particularily from Hewlett, Packard, Cochran [etal] documents. TomC RE: HP-35 origin - mcquiggi - 06-17-2018 06:15 PM
Great article! I liked the company standard: selling price is (materials cost) * Pi !!! Kevin RE: HP-35 origin - drdbthompson - 06-17-2018 06:57 PM
Thanks for that link @hibiki. I really enjoyed the read and it makes me think that I could learn a lot from reading HP history. (06-17-2018 06:15 PM)mcquiggi Wrote: Great article! ...or in competitive markets, list*e... RE: HP-35 origin - badaze - 06-17-2018 08:23 PM
Very interesting. Thanks. I found my HP 35 (serial # 1346A.....) at a flea market lost in a bunch of junk. It wanted I owned it because I never give a look to bunches of junk ! And it’s still alive ! RE: HP-35 origin - brickviking - 06-18-2018 12:02 AM
(06-17-2018 06:15 PM)mcquiggi Wrote: Great article! If I took that phrase literally (Pi !!!), HP-50G calculates that to be 9.99999999999 E499. Somehow, I think even HP wouldn't be that crazy. Pi !! came to about 7380.55555766, and Pi! comes to 7.1881-ish, or so my HP-34C told me back in the day. That might be closer to the scale that HP was originally thinking of. (Post 244) RE: HP-35 origin - mcquiggi - 06-18-2018 12:36 AM
(06-18-2018 12:02 AM)brickviking Wrote:(06-17-2018 06:15 PM)mcquiggi Wrote: Great article! Ha! I anticipated this interpretation so I put a space between Pi and the ‘!!!’ part! Perhaps Pi!!! Was the government price! Kevin RE: HP-35 origin - Harald - 06-18-2018 07:47 PM
(06-18-2018 12:02 AM)brickviking Wrote: When did Pi become a natural number? Factorial is only defined for natural numbers. RE: HP-35 origin - Valentin Albillo - 06-18-2018 10:27 PM
(06-16-2018 10:58 PM)hibiki Wrote: http://codex99.com/design/the-hp35.html Indeed it is. Thank you very much, I've found it really interesting and an excellent read. Would love to find something similar about the HP-65. V. . RE: HP-35 origin - brickviking - 06-18-2018 11:05 PM
(06-18-2018 07:47 PM)Harald Wrote:(06-18-2018 12:02 AM)brickviking Wrote: If I took that phrase literally (Pi !!!), HP-50G calculates that to be 9.99999999999 E499. Somehow, I think even HP wouldn't be that crazy. Pi !! came to about 7380.55555766, and Pi! comes to 7.1881-ish, or so my HP-34C told me back in the day. That might be closer to the scale that HP was originally thinking of. While that's true, certain factorial implementations (hp34c, HP48-series, HP-50G and others) interpolate non-integer results by using the Gamma function, as the factorial function is merely the integer-based special case of the Gamma function. Pretty much: \( n! = Γ(n+1) \), if I remember rightly, and I'm sorry if I can't get that Gamma to come out correctly. I had fun trying to generate the inverse... of course that's not defined anywhere mathematically, so I was told. (Post 245) RE: HP-35 origin - Steve Simpkin - 06-19-2018 01:26 AM
(06-18-2018 10:27 PM)Valentin Albillo Wrote: Indeed it is. Thank you very much, I've found it really interesting and an excellent read. Would love to find something similar about the HP-65. A few more links: http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1974-05.pdf http://hpmemoryproject.org/wb_pages/wall_b_page_11b.htm http://hpmemoryproject.org/wb_pages/j_minck_01.htm https://www.hpe.com/us/en/insights/articles/the-early-history-of-hp-calculators-1709.html RE: HP-35 origin - Didier Lachieze - 06-19-2018 05:29 AM
@hibiki, thanks for the link. I knew about this site but this article has been updated in May 2018 with much more detailed information than previously. Edit: here is the link to the original article from 2012. RE: HP-35 origin - EdS2 - 06-19-2018 07:40 AM
The middle section of this video is about the HP-35 - "Death of the Slide Rule" See also this archived site, presenting an article from 1972 Made in USA...finally! RE: HP-35 origin - Gerson W. Barbosa - 06-19-2018 08:15 AM
(06-18-2018 11:05 PM)brickviking Wrote: Pretty much: \( n! = Γ(n+1) \), if I remember rightly, and I'm sorry if I can't get that Gamma to come out correctly. I had fun trying to generate the inverse... of course that's not defined anywhere mathematically, so I was told. Do you mean something like that? I prefer Inverse Factorial, however: 120 XEQ InvFact -> 5 PI SQRT 3 * 4 / XEQ InvFact -> 1.5 163 ENTER ENTER + 1/x + ENTER * 5 * 18 / XEQ InvFact XEQ InvFact -> 3.14159265359 (On Free42) 00 { 89-Byte Prgm } 01▸LBL "InvFact" 02 ENTER 03 LN 04 SQRT 05 0.16 06 RCL× ST L 07 X<>Y 08 2.21 09 × 10 + 11 0.194 12 + 13 2 14 X<Y? 15 X<>Y 16 X<> ST T 17▸LBL 00 18 R↓ 19 R↓ 20 STO ST Z 21 X<>Y 22 STO ST T 23 GAMMA 24 ÷ 25 +/- 26 1 27 + 28 R↑ 29 RCL+ ST T 30 1/X 31 RCL ST T 32 LN 33 STO- ST Y 34 X<> ST L 35 R↓ 36 +/- 37 ÷ 38 STO- ST Z 39 ABS 40 1ᴇ-30 41 X<Y? 42 GTO 00 43 R↑ 44 1 45 - 46 END RE: HP-35 origin - StephenG1CMZ - 06-19-2018 10:22 AM
(06-18-2018 12:02 AM)brickviking Wrote: I am curious - How did you parse that expression? X!! Is not the same as (X!)! If you have heard of double-factorials, although of course it is if you haven't, ! Being an ambiguous mathematical symbol. Is that x!!! (A triple factorial?) (X!!)! (Factorial of a double factorial) (X!)!! (Double factorial of a factorial) ((X!)!)! (Factorial of a factorial of a factorial) RE: HP-35 origin - Thomas Okken - 06-19-2018 11:09 AM
(06-19-2018 10:22 AM)StephenG1CMZ Wrote:(06-18-2018 12:02 AM)brickviking Wrote: Pi !!! I'd vote for the triple factorial interpretation. Although I noticed that Wolfram Alpha interprets it as (Pi !!)! instead, so it recognizes the double factorial but not higher-order multifactorials. Also interesting is that it appears to have an analytic continuation of the double factorial; I wonder if such continuations exist for higher-order multifactorials as well? RE: HP-35 origin - brickviking - 06-20-2018 07:31 PM
(06-19-2018 10:22 AM)StephenG1CMZ Wrote:(06-18-2018 12:02 AM)brickviking Wrote: If I took that phrase literally (Pi !!!), HP-50G calculates that to be 9.99999999999 E499. Somehow, I think even HP wouldn't be that crazy. Pi !! came to about 7380.55555766, and Pi! comes to 7.1881-ish, or so my HP-34C told me back in the day. That might be closer to the scale that HP was originally thinking of. I parsed that as the following procedure would indicate: \((((\pi!)!)!)\), therefore would have approximately been: \(\pi! = 7.18808272898\) \(7.18808272898! = 7380.55555766 \) \(7380.55555766! = OVERFLOW \)(at least for my 50G) And I'd have to check what on earth are double-factorials or triple-factorials. I haven't heard of such a beast. (Later) Oh, so that's what those are. Interesting. (Post 246) RE: HP-35 origin - KimH - 12-06-2018 01:29 PM
(06-16-2018 10:58 PM)hibiki Wrote: http://codex99.com/design/the-hp35.html On a journey to get the story about HP35 and forward until the TITAN with the SATURN, i noticed your links in this stream. The PI was once explained to me like this 1/3 for Components and MFG 1/3 for Cost of Sales / Admin 1/3 for Profits RE: HP-35 origin - Gerson W. Barbosa - 12-10-2018 02:41 AM
(06-20-2018 07:31 PM)brickviking Wrote: I parsed that as the following procedure would indicate: That’s a job for super-wp34s: pi ! ! 1 + LNgamma 10 LN / IP RCL L FP 10^x —> 4.41316713166 x<>y —> 25345 => ((pi!)!)! = 4.41316713166*10^25345 or, approximately, 490347/111110*10^25345 Notice that (pi!)! ~ 66425/9 is much nicer. PS: LOGGAMMA on the HP 50g gives a less accurate mantissa: 4.4131694182 RE: HP-35 origin - ttw - 12-10-2018 04:00 AM
(06-18-2018 07:47 PM)Harald Wrote:(06-18-2018 12:02 AM)brickviking Wrote: If I took that phrase literally (Pi !!!), HP-50G calculates that to be 9.99999999999 E499. Somehow, I think even HP wouldn't be that crazy. Pi !! came to about 7380.55555766, and Pi! comes to 7.1881-ish, or so my HP-34C told me back in the day. That might be closer to the scale that HP was originally thinking of. The Gamma function is defined for reals (and complex numbers). It agrees with the factorial on the positive integers. |