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Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - ijabbott - 09-12-2018 05:56 PM
I grew up with Casio scientific calculators in the 70s and 80s and got used to their mode of input. They used an algebraic mode with normal order of operations for binary operators and parentheses to change evaluation order, but functions of one variable used a postfix operation similar to RPN, e.g. "30 SIN" rather than "SIN 30".
The only scientific calculators that work that way I can think of that are still in production are the TI-30Xa and TI-30 ECO RS. Are there any others?
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - Albert Chan - 09-12-2018 09:11 PM
How about Casio FX 260 solar II ?
Youtube: Casio FX 260 Solar II calculator review
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - Dave Britten - 09-12-2018 09:49 PM
What about the 10BII+? It's even got a few (optionally) postfix two-argument functions by way of the Input key.
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - ijabbott - 09-13-2018 06:52 AM
(09-12-2018 09:11 PM)Albert Chan Wrote: How about Casio FX 260 solar II ?
Youtube: Casio FX 260 Solar II calculator review
Thanks, I think I'd already seen that EEVblog video and forgotten about it! I think it is called the fx-82 Solar II in Europe.
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - ijabbott - 09-13-2018 06:58 AM
(09-12-2018 09:49 PM)Dave Britten Wrote: What about the 10BII+? It's even got a few (optionally) postfix two-argument functions by way of the Input key.
That's a possibility, but if I got a financial calculator (actually, I do still have an unconverted HP-30b), I think I'd prefer the TI BA-II Plus or Plus Pro.
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - Dave Britten - 09-13-2018 11:22 AM
(09-13-2018 06:58 AM)ijabbott Wrote:(09-12-2018 09:49 PM)Dave Britten Wrote: What about the 10BII+? It's even got a few (optionally) postfix two-argument functions by way of the Input key.
That's a possibility, but if I got a financial calculator (actually, I do still have an unconverted HP-30b), I think I'd prefer the TI BA-II Plus or Plus Pro.
Now that's crazy talk. The BA-II Plus features are decent, but it's pretty unpleasant due to two things: no rubber feet (it slides all over your desk), and awful keyboard response with no two-key rollover, that will leave you with missed keystrokes at a very low threshold for "fast typing".
The Sharp EL-738 models use a very similar "worksheet" UI like the TI, but have absolutely fantastic keys.
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - ijabbott - 09-13-2018 07:46 PM
(09-13-2018 11:22 AM)Dave Britten Wrote:(09-13-2018 06:58 AM)ijabbott Wrote: That's a possibility, but if I got a financial calculator (actually, I do still have an unconverted HP-30b), I think I'd prefer the TI BA-II Plus or Plus Pro.
Now that's crazy talk. The BA-II Plus features are decent, but it's pretty unpleasant due to two things: no rubber feet (it slides all over your desk), and awful keyboard response with no two-key rollover, that will leave you with missed keystrokes at a very low threshold for "fast typing".
The Professional version has rubber feet, a (partly?) metal case, and 2-key rollover, I think, unlike the cheaper version for students.
Quote:The Sharp EL-738 models use a very similar "worksheet" UI like the TI, but have absolutely fantastic keys.
The EL-738F even has hyperbolic trig. Nice!
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - Albert Chan - 09-13-2018 09:20 PM
(09-13-2018 11:22 AM)Dave Britten Wrote: Now that's crazy talk. The BA-II Plus features are decent, but it's pretty unpleasant due to two things: no rubber feet (it slides all over your desk), and awful keyboard response with no two-key rollover, that will leave you with missed keystrokes at a very low threshold for "fast typing".
What is two-key rollover ? Why missed keystrokes without it ?
Regarding "fast typing", I was once in a customs office, paying taxes.
The lady were using a Canon, typing with *all* five fingers on it !
The other hand were writing stuff ... at the same time !
Not once had she even look at the calculator !
When finished the fast typing, just staple the calculator printout ... Amazing
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - Zaphod - 09-13-2018 09:39 PM
(09-13-2018 09:20 PM)Albert Chan Wrote:(09-13-2018 11:22 AM)Dave Britten Wrote: Now that's crazy talk. The BA-II Plus features are decent, but it's pretty unpleasant due to two things: no rubber feet (it slides all over your desk), and awful keyboard response with no two-key rollover, that will leave you with missed keystrokes at a very low threshold for "fast typing".
What is two-key rollover ? Why missed keystrokes without it
Some cheap keyboard scanning would miss keys if you’re still pressing the previous one
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - Gene - 09-13-2018 10:59 PM
The HP-10BII+ hands down. It has hyperbolic trig FWIW and many features the TI BAII Plus does not have, such as shown below. This is a GREAT machine and the keys are much better than the TI BAII Plus.
Functions on the HP 10bII+ not found on the TI BAII Plus --- I think TI should call it the TI BAII Minus.
Entry of a number in scientific notation
Entry of a number with 12 digits
11 extra storage memories
PI
Normal distribution
Inverse Normal distribution
Student’s t distribution
Inverse Student’s t distribution
Best fit regression choice
Exponent regression model
Inverse (1/x) regression model
Weighted average
Gamma function
Markup calculations
Initial CF0 frequency other than one
No CPT (compute) key needed to solve
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - ijabbott - 09-14-2018 07:40 AM
(09-13-2018 09:20 PM)Albert Chan Wrote: Regarding "fast typing", I was once in a customs office, paying taxes.
The lady were using a Canon, typing with *all* five fingers on it !
The other hand were writing stuff ... at the same time !
Not once had she even look at the calculator !
When finished the fast typing, just staple the calculator printout ... Amazing
Have you seen this?
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - Albert Chan - 09-14-2018 07:06 PM
Take away the calculator, you get this ...
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - Zaphod - 09-14-2018 07:32 PM
(09-14-2018 07:40 AM)ijabbott Wrote: Have you seen this?
There’s no way the guy at 1:18 is actually calculating something !
His hand is just trembling over the calculator !
lolThey won’t have carpal tunnel syndrome in later life ... nooooo
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - ijabbott - 09-15-2018 10:52 AM
(09-13-2018 10:59 PM)Gene Wrote: The HP-10BII+ hands down. It has hyperbolic trig FWIW and many features the TI BAII Plus does not have, such as shown below. This is a GREAT machine and the keys are much better than the TI BAII Plus.
Functions on the HP 10bII+ not found on the TI BAII Plus --- I think TI should call it the TI BAII Minus.
Entry of a number in scientific notation
Entry of a number with 12 digits
11 extra storage memories
PI
Normal distribution
Inverse Normal distribution
Student’s t distribution
Inverse Student’s t distribution
Best fit regression choice
Exponent regression model
Inverse (1/x) regression model
Weighted average
Gamma function
Markup calculations
Initial CF0 frequency other than one
No CPT (compute) key needed to solve
I can't argue with that, although being picky, the handling of differing payment and compounding periods in TVM calculations is a bit more awkward on the HP 10bII+ compared to the BA II+ Plus.
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - ijabbott - 09-15-2018 11:02 AM
(09-14-2018 07:06 PM)Albert Chan Wrote: Take away the calculator, you get this ...
So who would win in an epic battle between the soroban guy and the calculator girl? I suspect the limiting factor is how fast the announcer can speak the numbers!
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - Albert Chan - 09-15-2018 12:10 PM
(09-15-2018 11:02 AM)ijabbott Wrote: So who would win in an epic battle between the soroban guy and the calculator girl?
I suspect the limiting factor is how fast the announcer can speak the numbers!
No contest. Soroban guy win.
If you watch the video in full, at the end (7:45) it had a "flashing numbers" contest.
15 3 digits numbers flash on the screen in ... 2 seconds !
There is no time to do any input, abacus or calculator.
They had to add them up in the head.
I cannot even count the number of flashes !
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - brickviking - 09-16-2018 09:56 PM
(09-15-2018 12:10 PM)Albert Chan Wrote:(09-15-2018 11:02 AM)ijabbott Wrote: So who would win in an epic battle between the soroban guy and the calculator girl?
I suspect the limiting factor is how fast the announcer can speak the numbers!
No contest. Soroban guy win.
If you watch the video in full, at the end (7:45) it had a "flashing numbers" contest.
15 3 digits numbers flash on the screen in ... 2 seconds !
There is no time to do any input, abacus or calculator.
They had to add them up in the head.
I cannot even count the number of flashes !
Counting the number of flashes is easy; however, extending the vstq to 15 items instead of the usual 3–7 items is the real push. I've found that I have a fairly short "very-short-term-queue" of about 4 items, I can push it to 5 sometimes. In addition, I can't add two numbers (of any size>1) as quickly as they can add fifteen 3-digit items. I'm out.
(Post 284)
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - Albert Chan - 09-16-2018 11:43 PM
Hi, brickviking
The beauty of the Soroban way is there is no queue.
The numbers were already added when they visualize it as beads.
So, no super-human memory training is needed.
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - Eddie W. Shore - 09-19-2018 12:55 PM
I think we got them all:
TI-30/30 ECO RS
Casio fx-260 Solar original/II
HP 10BII+
I will add:
Sharp EL-501XBWH (and all the clones found at Right Aid, 99 cent stores, etc)
Cannon F-605
RE: Postfix algebraic scientific calculators still in production - Eddie W. Shore - 09-19-2018 12:57 PM
(09-14-2018 07:40 AM)ijabbott Wrote:(09-13-2018 09:20 PM)Albert Chan Wrote: Regarding "fast typing", I was once in a customs office, paying taxes.
The lady were using a Canon, typing with *all* five fingers on it !
The other hand were writing stuff ... at the same time !
Not once had she even look at the calculator !
When finished the fast typing, just staple the calculator printout ... Amazing
Have you seen this?
Wow! I never seen anyone use a calculator that fast.
Future potential soul mates on Earth, being able to use a calculator that is a plus on the list.