+- HP Forums (https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum)
+-- Forum: HP Calculators (and very old HP Computers) (/forum-3.html)
+--- Forum: HP Prime (/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: HP Prime without CAS (/thread-15782.html)
HP Prime without CAS - Amrlxy19 - 10-23-2020 03:03 PM
Hi, im an IB student, and IB does not allow to use calculators with CAS. It is fine because I can turn on the exam mode. However, without CAS, how am I going to solve polynomial equations and find roots? I have seen my friend's calculator that does not have CAS and can solve polynomial equations.
I know that it is possible to use the function app to sketch the function and find the roots. But, I am going to use it quite frequently. So, what is the fastest way to solve without using CAS features? Otherwise, I think this calculator will slow me down in exams... But right now i am loving this calculator except for the problem above.
Is there anyone who has experience with IB or any other exams that needs to disable CAS? Because this is may be only the first problem I encounter, so any related experience/story will be really appreciated.
Any help would be appreciated and thanks in advance.
EDIT: IB stands for International Baccalaureate Diploma Programme. It is quite similar as SAT and A-level.
RE: HP Prime without CAS - rprosperi - 10-23-2020 04:22 PM
(10-23-2020 03:03 PM)Amrlxy19 Wrote: Hi, im an IB student, and IB does not allow to use calculators with CAS. It is fine because I can turn on the exam mode. However, without CAS, how am I going to solve polynomial equations and find roots? I have seen my friend's calculator that does not have CAS and can solve polynomial equations.
I know that it is possible to use the function app to sketch the function and find the roots. But, I am going to use it quite frequently. So, what is the fastest way to solve without using CAS features? Otherwise, I think this calculator will slow me down in exams... But right now i am loving this calculator except for the problem above.
Is there anyone who has experience with IB or any other exams that needs to disable CAS? Because this is may be only the first problem I encounter, so any related experience/story will be really appreciated.
Any help would be appreciated and thanks in advance.
It probably would help if you explained what "IB" is. Some here may know, most likely do not.
RE: HP Prime without CAS - Amrlxy19 - 10-23-2020 04:56 PM
(10-23-2020 04:22 PM)rprosperi Wrote:(10-23-2020 03:03 PM)Amrlxy19 Wrote: Hi, im an IB student, and IB does not allow to use calculators with CAS. It is fine because I can turn on the exam mode. However, without CAS, how am I going to solve polynomial equations and find roots? I have seen my friend's calculator that does not have CAS and can solve polynomial equations.
I know that it is possible to use the function app to sketch the function and find the roots. But, I am going to use it quite frequently. So, what is the fastest way to solve without using CAS features? Otherwise, I think this calculator will slow me down in exams... But right now i am loving this calculator except for the problem above.
Is there anyone who has experience with IB or any other exams that needs to disable CAS? Because this is may be only the first problem I encounter, so any related experience/story will be really appreciated.
Any help would be appreciated and thanks in advance.
It probably would help if you explained what "IB" is. Some here may know, most likely do not.
IB stands for International Baccalaureate Diploma Programme. It is quite similar as SAT and A-level. Sorry for not explaining. Basically, I just wanna know if there is a way to find the roots of a polynomial without CAS?
RE: HP Prime without CAS - pinkman - 10-23-2020 10:00 PM
I don’t know what’s authorized but if the CAS is the only forbidden part of the calc, then the numerical tools are available.
My advice would be to use the Function app in combination with the ROOT numerical solver.
Example:
F2:='X^5+X^3-3*X^2-X+2'
Open the plot view to see where are the roots
Then solve numerically:
ROOT(F2,-1) -> −0.805154414085
ROOT(F2,0.5) -> 0.886557206985
ROOT(F2,2) -> 1
Regards.
Thibault
Edit: corrected incoherence F1 vs F2 in my initial post
RE: HP Prime without CAS - Amrlxy19 - 10-24-2020 01:00 AM
(10-23-2020 10:00 PM)pinkman Wrote: I don’t know what’s authorized but if the CAS is the only forbidden part of the calc, then the numerical tools are available.
My advice would be to use the Function app in combination with the ROOT numerical solver.
Example:
F1:='X^5+X^3-3*X^2-X+2'
Open the plot view to see where are the roots
Then solve numerically:
ROOT(F2,-1) -> −0.805154414085
ROOT(F2,0.5) -> 0.886557206985
ROOT(F2,2) -> 1
Regards.
Thibault
Most of the numerical tools are allowed. If that is the fastest way... well, that sucks...
How do I use the ROOT() for imaginary roots? And also, I read that CAS functions are lowercase such as solve(). So, why POLYROOT() is also disabled when CAS is disabled?
Thanks for your reply and help.
RE: HP Prime without CAS - pinkman - 10-24-2020 04:23 AM
POLYROOT is a better answer than mine for polynomial functions, is it really forbidden in exam mode?
RE: HP Prime without CAS - Amrlxy19 - 10-24-2020 04:31 AM
(10-24-2020 04:23 AM)pinkman Wrote: POLYROOT is a better answer than mine for polynomial functions, is it really forbidden in exam mode?
You could try disabling just CAS on exam mode for like 15 minutes and try using POLYROOT() and it won't work. Or atleast, on my calculator it doesn't work. If your hp prime have no problem, then something is wrong with my calculator. I'm really suspicious about POLYROOT() because it is all uppercase and it won't work without CAS. By the way, my hp prime is G1.
RE: HP Prime without CAS - pinkman - 10-24-2020 08:24 AM
“Syntax error”
RE: HP Prime without CAS - Amrlxy19 - 10-24-2020 09:53 AM
(10-24-2020 08:24 AM)pinkman Wrote: “Syntax error”
Hmmm... Do you know any way to contact HP customer support or someone expert that could help me? Or am I completely screwed? Maybe this is the reason why it is not popular for exams that needs to disable CAS in exam... This calculator would be the perfect calculator for me if only the problem is solved.
RE: HP Prime without CAS - grsbanks - 10-24-2020 11:00 AM
I'm not sure what the problem is here.
There's a function that's part of CAS and you're complaining that it's unavailable when CAS is unavailable, right?
That's like walking into a fishmonger's and complaining to him that you can't buy swordfish because your local government has forbidden the sale of that fish. There's no point in complaining to the fishmonger, he's only doing what he's told to do. It's your local government that you want to petition so that they allow the sale of swordfish.
Similarly here, it's not HP that you want to petition, it's your education authority.
RE: HP Prime without CAS - pinkman - 10-24-2020 11:02 AM
Tim and Cyrille are often seen here, maybe they will give an answer.
RE: HP Prime without CAS - Amrlxy19 - 10-24-2020 02:31 PM
(10-24-2020 11:00 AM)grsbanks Wrote: I'm not sure what the problem is here.
There's a function that's part of CAS and you're complaining that it's unavailable when CAS is unavailable, right?
That's like walking into a fishmonger's and complaining to him that you can't buy swordfish because your local government has forbidden the sale of that fish. There's no point in complaining to the fishmonger, he's only doing what he's told to do. It's your local government that you want to petition so that they allow the sale of swordfish.
Similarly here, it's not HP that you want to petition, it's your education authority.
I am sorry and I clearly get your point. Let me re-state my question:
1) (In CAS off mode) What is the fastest way to find the roots of a polynomial including imaginary roots. A lot of calculators out there that does not have CAS but still can solve for roots.
2) Why does POLYROOT() is uppercase but it is part of CAS. Aren't only the lowercase functions are CAS?
I do complained a bit. But, mainly, I am asking for solutions to my problem. Which is the two problems. I do agree that "it's not HP that you want to petition, it's your education authority". But, finding a solution for this calculator would be much easier than fixing the education. If only there's a solution for the calculator. If there is no way I can solve that without turning on CAS, I will just accept it and maybe if required change to another calculator. It would be really sad though cuz this calculator is really good in other aspects like interface and performance. Sorry for the bad English. Hope you get my point.
RE: HP Prime without CAS - parisse - 10-24-2020 03:42 PM
POLYROOT calls the CAS polynomial rooter (proot). It's indeed not symbolic and should also be available in non CAS exam mode but it's perhaps disabled because some countries do not allow a polynomial rooter in exam mode (otherwise the TI Nspire would not have an option to disable it, with this option checked by default).
Maybe Cyrille or Tim will give more details...
RE: HP Prime without CAS - pinkman - 10-24-2020 10:02 PM
Thank you Bernard, I created another thread before seing your answer.