Solver, HP Solve, etc. - Printable Version

Solver, HP Solve, etc. - Printable Version

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Solver, HP Solve, etc. - HP67 - 06-27-2014 10:21 AM

Is the "Solver" the same thing as "HP Solve?"

Are there any good articles on the "Solver"? I have all the HP journals downloaded but I don't think I have an index so finding stuff is a little tricky. Is there a canonical description in HP calculator manuals, or is most of the stuff known from using it over the years?

I'm curious about things like how many versions of the "Solver" exist, what is the history behind it, and which HP calcs have it.

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - walter b - 06-27-2014 11:53 AM

Hmmh, simply keying "hp solve" into your favourite search engine returns "HP Solve" being HP's newsletter, published on a regular basis once upon a time. The "solver", OTOH, you seem to look for is a completely different piece of SW being part of HP's high(er) level calculators since the HP-34C.

HTH

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - walter b - 06-27-2014 11:59 AM

Addendum: The classic RPN solver functionality is implemented in the HP-34C, HP-15C, HP-42S, and HP-35S. Not so sure about the latter. There are also solvers in some algebraic models (e.g. HP-27S, HP-17B) but those are different. I'd guess there are solvers in the RPL machines but can't tell you about their features.

d:-)

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - Thomas Radtke - 06-27-2014 12:23 PM

(06-27-2014 11:59 AM)walter b Wrote: There are also solvers in some algebraic models (e.g. HP-27S, HP-17B) but those are different. I'd guess there are solvers in the RPL machines but can't tell you about their features.

These solvers (all RPL-OS machines since the 18C) implement some rudimentary CAS to find a direct solution.

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - HP67 - 06-27-2014 12:54 PM

I decided to order a 30b. It is supposed to have "the solver" whatever that means. So I wanted to read up on the history and see how to use it. Thanks guys.

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - Thomas Radtke - 06-27-2014 01:28 PM

(06-27-2014 12:54 PM)HP67 Wrote: I decided to order a 30b. It is supposed to have "the solver" whatever that means.

IIRC, it has the classic implementation where you can program the function by means of keystroke programming and leave the function value in the x register.

BTW - the 30b has a nice first: You can call a program by pressing shift, then another key in parallel, and finally release both keys.

This is from memory, I used the 30b when I got it for some weeks, then took it to rest. Don't remember the details.

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - HP67 - 06-27-2014 02:02 PM

(06-27-2014 01:28 PM)Thomas Radtke Wrote: IIRC, it has the classic implementation where you can program the function by means of keystroke programming and leave the function value in the x register.

That sounds good. Wait, did you mean the general programming model is keystroke (I know that) or the solver uses keystroke programming (have no idea what that would mean).

(06-27-2014 01:28 PM)Thomas Radtke Wrote: BTW - the 30b has a nice first: You can call a program by pressing shift, then another key in parallel, and finally release both keys.

I read about that. It may be a good option for extending the keyboard if they haven't abused it. Actually, from the description, it sounds like the way to 50g works for plotting and a few other functions where if you hit a shift key and another key it does one thing, but if you hold and shift it does another.

(06-27-2014 01:28 PM)Thomas Radtke Wrote: This is from memory, I used the 30b when I got it for some weeks, then took it to rest. Don't remember the details.

It broke after a few weeks? Or you sealed it up for Y3K, or...?

Anyway, yeah this is what I'm looking for history, background, technical info on etc. Thanks.

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - walter b - 06-27-2014 02:13 PM

(06-27-2014 12:54 PM)HP67 Wrote: I decided to order a 30b. It is supposed to have "the solver" whatever that means.

Hmmh, where did you get that information from? I just searched the HP-20b/30b manual and couldn't find "solver" therein. I don't see it on the keyboard either. Confused

But there's hope: convert your HP-30b to a WP 34S and you'll get a classic solver. Smile

d:-)

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - Massimo Gnerucci - 06-27-2014 02:16 PM

(06-27-2014 02:13 PM)walter b Wrote:
(06-27-2014 12:54 PM)HP67 Wrote: I decided to order a 30b. It is supposed to have "the solver" whatever that means.

Hmmh, where did you get that information from? I just searched the HP-20b/30b manual and couldn't find "solver" therein. I don't see it on the keyboard either.
But there's hope: convert your HP-30b to a WP 34S and you'll get a classic solver.

d:-)

Page 3 and modules.

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - HP67 - 06-27-2014 02:23 PM

I had found this article from the hpcc. They are usually pretty good at getting the facts right.

http://www.hpcc.org/calculators/HP30b_review.pdf

and this thread from the old forums here:

http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv019.cgi?read=164656

and this at Datamath http://www.datamath.org/Related/HewlettPackard/HP30B.htm

and here in the HP doc on page 87 http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02651527.pdf

But it's not real descriptive (only one page) and I suspect older manuals and or articles have a lot more info on it.

Edit: thanks, Massimo. That's more than I had.

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - walter b - 06-27-2014 02:28 PM

(06-27-2014 02:16 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:
(06-27-2014 02:13 PM)walter b Wrote: Hmmh, where did you get that information from?

Page 3 and modules.

Grazie mille! Now I know why HP67 was looking for "HP Solve". Smile

And I know why I didn't find that SOLVE on the keyboard. Confused

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - Massimo Gnerucci - 06-27-2014 02:31 PM

(06-27-2014 02:28 PM)walter b Wrote: Grazie mille! Now I know why HP67 was looking for "HP Solve". And I know why I didn't find that SOLVE on the keyboard.

Non c'è di che... Big Grin

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - HP67 - 06-27-2014 02:34 PM

It is not a good sign when a company is so big they use the same name for multiple, mostly unrelated things...

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - Thomas Radtke - 06-27-2014 02:34 PM

(06-27-2014 02:02 PM)HP67 Wrote: That sounds good. Wait, did you mean the general programming model is keystroke (I know that) or the solver uses keystroke programming (have no idea what that would mean).

The latter, i.e., there's no equation editor, unfortunately. As I said, the solver solves a program for a return value of zero. This is what the 34C solver did.

(06-27-2014 02:02 PM)HP67 Wrote: I read about that. It may be a good option for extending the keyboard if they haven't abused it. Actually, from the description, it sounds like the way to 50g works for plotting and a few other functions where if you hit a shift key and another key it does one thing, but if you hold and shift it does another.

Oops, I didn't knew the 50g has this, too.

(06-27-2014 02:02 PM)HP67 Wrote: It broke after a few weeks? Or you sealed it up for Y3K, or...?

I have no use for it as I have enough other financial calculators. But it was inexpensive and I was curious about it :-).

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - Thomas Radtke - 06-27-2014 02:37 PM

(06-27-2014 02:13 PM)walter b Wrote: I don't see it on the keyboard either.

It doesn't made it there, but it's printed on an overlay also within the scope of delivery.

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - HP67 - 06-27-2014 02:40 PM

(06-27-2014 02:34 PM)Thomas Radtke Wrote: I have no use for it as I have enough other financial calculators. But it was inexpensive and I was curious about it :-).

Oh, that's it for me sort of also. I have a 12C and since I'm not in finance it handles everything I throw at it. This was cheap and looks interesting because it also has enough math/trig it could be a generally useful calculator to grab for quick calculations. Should be easier than carrying a 48, 50 etc. But I don't know how big it is because I haven't received it yet.

Is it shirt/coat pocketable?

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - walter b - 06-27-2014 02:42 PM

(06-27-2014 02:37 PM)Thomas Radtke Wrote:
(06-27-2014 02:13 PM)walter b Wrote: I don't see it on the keyboard either.
It doesn't made it there, but it's printed on an overlay also within the scope of delivery.

Thanks. I knew that. Though I don't have an HP-30b which didn't see reflashing so I forgot. And BTW, I don't think that overlay for functions being part of the standard function set was a brilliant idea - wait: maybe it was for keeping the surface simple for those financial people. Confused

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - Thomas Radtke - 06-27-2014 02:42 PM

(06-27-2014 02:40 PM)HP67 Wrote: Is it shirt/coat pocketable?

Certainly.

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - HP67 - 06-27-2014 02:49 PM

(06-27-2014 02:42 PM)Thomas Radtke Wrote:
(06-27-2014 02:40 PM)HP67 Wrote: Is it shirt/coat pocketable?
Certainly.

Great news, thanks. Now I'm hyped to get it and see what it can do.

RE: Solver, HP Solve, etc. - John R - 06-27-2014 03:45 PM

(06-27-2014 02:37 PM)Thomas Radtke Wrote:
(06-27-2014 02:13 PM)walter b Wrote: I don't see it on the keyboard either.
It doesn't made it there, but it's printed on an overlay also within the scope of delivery.

This overlay was unfortunately omitted (accidentally? intentionally?) from at least some 30b packages. I believe there was a thread about this a year or two ago....