HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A)

HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - Printable Version

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HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - jebem - 07-16-2014 07:12 PM

I have acquired another classic calculator, this immortal HP-15C.
I'm very excited to finally have one of these samples in my hands to play with!
The calculator is in very good condition and works nicely.

However this beauty has a dark side, and I wonder if one of our expert fellows can help me on this one:

1) The ENTER key is kind of sticky and seems to be on the loose side (it rocks sideways), despite it never fails to register.
- Is this kind of issue happening on a regular basis on old calculators like this one (year of 82)?
- Can it be fixed?

2) Also, I notice that the key only clicks in the upper side, and the lower side has less height that the upper side (please check the pictures for details).
- Now, could someone confirm that on a perfect ENTER key this is normal, please?

Thanks in advance!

Pictures:

RE: HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - walter b - 07-16-2014 08:14 PM

Boa tarde Jose,

what you describe looks normal to me - my Voyagers looks alike. So no reason for worries IMHO - except the "stickiness" you describe but that's difficult to quantify. ENTER on the Voyagers is special.

d:-)

RE: HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - jebem - 07-16-2014 08:39 PM

(07-16-2014 08:14 PM)walter b Wrote: Boa tarde Jose,

what you describe looks normal to me - my Voyagers looks alike. So no reason for worries IMHO - except the "stickiness" you describe but that's difficult to quantify. ENTER on the Voyagers is special.

d:-)

Guten Abend, Walter,
Thank you so much for your input.

Maybe my "stickiness" expression is not the best word to describe it.
Probably this is a normal wear. After all the ENTER key is probably one of the most used keys in RPN?

When pressed, the key's travel looks a bit shorter than the others and it doesn't "click" like all the others, it is like it has something soft underneath. Because it is a bit loose, it looks to me like there is a bigger gap between the key and the switch than it should be in normal conditions.

RE: HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - walter b - 07-16-2014 09:05 PM

As mentioned, ENTER on Voyagers feels special. The tactile response of ENTER differs definitivly from the one of the other keys. I wouldn't worry as long as the key registers properly and returns to its original position always. YMMV

d:-)

RE: HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - Raymond Del Tondo - 07-16-2014 09:14 PM

(07-16-2014 08:39 PM)jebem Wrote: When pressed, the key's travel looks a bit shorter than the others and it doesn't "click" like all the others, it is like it has something soft underneath.

That's rather normal on Voyagers, since you press on _two_ metal domes when hitting the ENTER key, instead of one dome for any other key. Almost _all_ real Voyager calcs I have seen (several hundred units) have an ENTER key which is somewhat different to press (more force, mushy) than all the other keys. I have two or three Voyagers where the ENTER key can be pressed with less force than usual. The ENTER key (or one of the domes) on those units is just worn out;-)

That's why I more like the key press feeling of the 15C LE, desite its defiencies.

RE: HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - rprosperi - 07-16-2014 09:57 PM

(07-16-2014 09:05 PM)walter b Wrote: As mentioned, ENTER on Voyagers feels special. The tactile response of ENTER differs definitivly from the one of the other keys.

Yes, Walter and also Ray captured this exactly. On most Voyagers, Enter is 'harder' to press, others less, but on every one I've ever used the Enter key feels different from all the other keys, no doubt due to the dome nature described by Ray.

I would hesitate to say I don't like the feel of Voyagers for this reason, since I've loved them forever, but this is the most distinctive and unique feature of this series. Although a minor annoyance, the other benefits of the Voyagers, IMHO, more than offset this quirk.

Which is to say, your 15C sounds 'normal'. Did you get both manuals that came with the original? The "Advance Functions Handbook" has lots of interesting applications and math/numerical analysys background which apply to many/most HP machines; you will frequently see examples from this book cited in testing of various other machines. I'm sure there is a copy in the MoHPC DVD.

Have fun with the new toy!

RE: HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - jebem - 07-16-2014 10:28 PM

(07-16-2014 09:57 PM)rprosperi Wrote: Yes, Walter and also Ray captured this exactly. On most Voyagers, Enter is 'harder' to press, others less, but on every one I've ever used the Enter key feels different from all the other keys, no doubt due to the dome nature described by Ray.
(...)
Which is to say, your 15C sounds 'normal'. Did you get both manuals that came with the original? The "Advance Functions Handbook" has lots of interesting applications and math/numerical analysys background which apply to many/most HP machines; you will frequently see examples from this book cited in testing of various other machines. I'm sure there is a copy in the MoHPC DVD.

Have fun with the new toy!

Thanks for the infos, Bob!

Unfortunately I got no documentation with it. I just managed to get this one on TAS Deutschland after so many bidding on other more comprehensive items.
I have my limits concerning bidding (I call it WAF - wife acceptance factor, an expression that I first heard in the "audiophile" people) Smile

Seriously, I have ordered the full DVD set from this MoHPC almost 1 month ago, it was shipped on 3 of July, and now I'm going for a two weeks holidays, so I hope the package doesn't arrive while I'm out and then returned back... I am living in a country where the Post Offices takes ages to deliver anything, specially when it comes from outside Europe.

(07-16-2014 09:14 PM)Raymond Del Tondo Wrote: That's rather normal on Voyagers, since you press on _two_ metal domes when hitting the ENTER key, instead of one dome for any other key. Almost _all_ real Voyager calcs I have seen (several hundred units) have an ENTER key which is somewhat different to press (more force, mushy) than all the other keys. I have two or three Voyagers where the ENTER key can be pressed with less force than usual. The ENTER key (or one of the domes) on those units is just worn out;-)

Thank you Raymond!
Good to have such fast and informative feedback.

I'm (re)discovering these machines now.
I owned and used the initial models in the seventies at school (HP-67, HP-25C), but when I started my professional life in IT (DataSaab D15 and D16, and after that Wang 2200 and VS systems) I stopped looking to calculators.
So let's say that I spent about 30 years away, and now I'm back!

RE: HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - Dave Frederickson - 07-16-2014 10:34 PM

(07-16-2014 09:57 PM)rprosperi Wrote: Did you get both manuals that came with the original?

The Advanced Functions Handbook wasn't included with the 15C, but was available as an additional purchase. Since the LE was released, HP released a pdf of the Handbook which is available here and is much better than the scan on the DVD. If you install the 15C emulator, both the Owner's Manual and Advanced Functions Handbook are accessable from the Help menu.

Dave

RE: HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - jebem - 07-16-2014 10:43 PM

(07-16-2014 10:34 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:
(07-16-2014 09:57 PM)rprosperi Wrote: Did you get both manuals that came with the original?

The Advanced Functions Handbook wasn't included with the 15C, but was available as an additional purchase. Since the LE was released, HP released a pdf of the Handbook which is available here and is much better than the scan on the DVD. If you install the 15C emulator, both the Owner's Manual and Advanced Functions Handbook are accessible from the Help menu.

Dave

Thanks, Dave!

RE: HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - rprosperi - 07-17-2014 12:14 AM

(07-16-2014 10:34 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote: The Advanced Functions Handbook wasn't included with the 15C, but was available as an additional purchase
Dave

I didn't know that. When I got my first 15C (used) it came with both manuals and have assumed all these years both manuals came with it. Anyhow, IMHO one of the must-have manuals for calc fans of all types. I even had an algebraic user friend borrow it to work through since it has such interesting applications and examples.

RE: HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - Les Bell - 07-17-2014 03:19 AM

(07-16-2014 10:28 PM)jebem Wrote: I have my limits concerning bidding (I call it WAF - wife acceptance factor, an expression that I first heard in the "audiophile" people)

That's a nice-looking specimen - congratulations on the purchase! But now you share our big worry - that after we die, our wives might sell our calculators - for what we told them they cost!

RE: HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - Massimo Gnerucci - 07-17-2014 05:42 AM

(07-17-2014 03:19 AM)Les Bell Wrote: That's a nice-looking specimen - congratulations on the purchase! But now you share our big worry - that after we die, our wives might sell our calculators - for what we told them they cost!

RE: HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - jebem - 07-17-2014 06:31 AM

(07-17-2014 03:19 AM)Les Bell Wrote:
(07-16-2014 10:28 PM)jebem Wrote: I have my limits concerning bidding (I call it WAF - wife acceptance factor, an expression that I first heard in the "audiophile" people)

That's a nice-looking specimen - congratulations on the purchase! But now you share our big worry - that after we die, our wives might sell our calculators - for what we told them they cost!

Thank you, Les!
And the price was about right I wold say (81 Euro + s&h)
Yes, definitely she thinks I'm dying before her, because the other day in a casual conversation she remarked that I should write down a list of my collection items with the price I really paid for them, just in case she needs to get rid of all "those things" Smile

RE: HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - walter b - 07-17-2014 07:20 AM

Quote:... I should write down a list of my collection items with the price I really paid for them, just in case she needs to get rid of all "those things"

They tend to forget they need the right marketplace as well (and the right time - 8 weeks before Xmas) Wink

d:-)

RE: HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - Les Bell - 07-17-2014 12:17 PM

(07-17-2014 06:31 AM)jebem Wrote: I should write down a list of my collection items with the price I really paid for them, just in case she needs to get rid of all "those things"

I have a Google Sheets spreadsheet, but I'm not sure I should reveal it to She Who Must Be Obeyed - it gave me a shock when I saw the total!

RE: HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - walter b - 07-17-2014 12:59 PM

(07-17-2014 12:17 PM)Les Bell Wrote: I have a Google Sheets spreadsheet, but I'm not sure I should reveal it to She Who Must Be Obeyed - it gave me a shock when I saw the total!

Too late - now the world knows (emphasis added in quote). Confused

RE: HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - jebem - 07-17-2014 01:34 PM

(07-17-2014 12:17 PM)Les Bell Wrote: I have a Google Sheets spreadsheet, but I'm not sure I should reveal it to She Who Must Be Obeyed - it gave me a shock when I saw the total!

Oh yes, one needs to spend the salary's money to keep the world economy rolling!
Seriously, in my home I'm in charge and I have the last word... "yes dear"" Smile

I believe I have paid at very least 30% of my total expenses on this hobby on s&h costs! This is a big business for the Post services for sure.
The other day I acquired a HP-27S for 28 Euro from Spain, but the sellers refused to sell it unless I pay 20 Euro more for s&h... it is a kind of rip of. I only accepted because I wanted to have it asap.

And one week ago I acquired a HP-20S in excellent condition for 23 Euro, also from Spain, and again the seller tried the same trick asking me 29 Euro for a "international registered packet" (he even shown me the link to http://www.correos.es) but this time I showed him that there is another cheaper option called "international registered letter" good to send "letters" up to 2Kg for just 8.75 Euro Europe wide!
Well...

RE: HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - jebem - 07-17-2014 02:02 PM

(07-17-2014 07:20 AM)walter b Wrote:
Quote:... I should write down a list of my collection items with the price I really paid for them, just in case she needs to get rid of all "those things"

They tend to forget they need the right marketplace as well (and the right time - 8 weeks before Xmas)

d:-)

Yes!
Here in Portugal we got 14 salaries/year, meaning that we receive double salary typically in July and December. That's two Xmas for us! Smile

RE: HP-15C Enter key issue (s/n: 2241A) - Les Bell - 07-17-2014 11:31 PM

(07-17-2014 12:59 PM)walter b Wrote: Too late - now the world knows (emphasis added in quote).

lol! Our house backs onto wild bush land with lots of gum trees, so my personal Business Continuity and Disaster Recovery Planning regards wildfire as the highest risk. Hence the use of cloud storage for an Asset Register that would allow an insurance claim to be lodged promptly in the event of disaster - something that seems increasingly likely with climate change increasing both the frequency and intensity of fire events in Australia. Sad

However, the evacuation checklist does have "place backup drives and HP calculators into briefcase and briefcase into boot of car" as an early entry. Wink