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+--- Thread: Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 (/thread-18406.html)
Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 - nickapos - 05-25-2022 05:06 AM
Hi everyone, I have a question that might be naive so apologies in advance.
Is there any way to simulate the adding machine behaviour where it prints every new line added in the stack without me having to hit print manually?
In this case every time a new line is added to the stack?
The reason I am asking is because when I enter a collection of numbers and then sum them I can not go back and check if there was a typo.
When I was using an adding machine we would use the printout for this check.
Of course there might be a best practice for this that i am no aware of in which case I would be happy to learn.
Thank you very much
RE: Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 - Steve Simpkin - 05-25-2022 05:22 AM
See page 102 of the HP-42S Owner's Manual for printing options. I think you want "Trace Mode".
RE: Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 - nickapos - 05-25-2022 05:26 AM
(05-25-2022 05:22 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote: See page 102 of the HP-42S Owner's Manual for printing options. I think you want "Trace Mode".
Indeed it is thank you very much
RE: Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 - Marco Polo - 05-25-2022 08:08 AM
(05-25-2022 05:22 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote: See page 102 of the HP-42S Owner's Manual for printing options. I think you want "Trace Mode".
Anything similar for 48/50?
RE: Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 - nickapos - 05-25-2022 09:02 AM
(05-25-2022 08:08 AM)Marco Polo Wrote:(05-25-2022 05:22 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote: See page 102 of the HP-42S Owner's Manual for printing options. I think you want "Trace Mode".
Anything similar for 48/50?
I think this is a key feature for any RPN/RPL systems. I am curious to see if 48/50 and prime have this feature as well.
RE: Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 - Massimo Gnerucci - 05-25-2022 09:59 AM
(05-25-2022 08:08 AM)Marco Polo Wrote:(05-25-2022 05:22 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote: See page 102 of the HP-42S Owner's Manual for printing options. I think you want "Trace Mode".
Anything similar for 48/50?
See here (from message #13).
RE: Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 - Didier Lachieze - 05-25-2022 11:13 AM
(05-25-2022 09:59 AM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote: See here (from message #13).
Here is a direct link to message #13.
RE: Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 - nickapos - 05-25-2022 11:25 AM
(05-25-2022 09:59 AM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:(05-25-2022 08:08 AM)Marco Polo Wrote: Anything similar for 48/50?
See here (from message #13).
This is very interesting, but this is for real calculators and printers. I wonder if there is a printout option in emu48 or iHP48. I did not see an option for it so I am not sure if I am missing anything.
RE: Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 - jonmoore - 05-25-2022 12:55 PM
(05-25-2022 11:25 AM)nickapos Wrote:(05-25-2022 09:59 AM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote: See here (from message #13).
This is very interesting, but this is for real calculators and printers. I wonder if there is a printout option in emu48 or iHP48. I did not see an option for it so I am not sure if I am missing anything.
Of the RPL calculators, only the HP28C/S have trace mode (AFAIK). However, it is worth bearing in mind that trace mode is actually intended for debugging programs and seriously impacts the interaction speeds on hardware calculators.
Emulations of classic calculators provide seamless feedback in trace mode but they bear little resemblance to working with hardware calculators and the HP IR Printer.
One of the settings that you can change on RPL calculators is the delay between IR data streams. This defaults to 1.8 seconds as the printer can't keep up with a constant stream of IR data when powered by batteries alone. Even when powered by a power adapter one would generally never reduce this delay lower than 1 second. And this is still the case with the Swiss Micros calculators that feature IR printing capabilities (a lot of the engineering for the IR printer dates back to the HP41 in the 80's).
When you go back to earlier HP calculators with printing capabilities such as the HP97, you didn't notice delays as the hardware ran at far slower speeds.
Modern emulators allow you to use the calculator much like you would a modern printing calculator such as those made by Cannon. But it it should be considered a 'nice to have' rather than a purposely designed emulation feature.
RE: Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 - nickapos - 05-25-2022 02:21 PM
(05-25-2022 12:55 PM)jonmoore Wrote:Hi Jon, thanks for the detailed reply. I understand that enabling trace print on a real device would probably stress the system and consume too many resources. It is convenient that we do not have such restrictions with the apps themselves.(05-25-2022 11:25 AM)nickapos Wrote: This is very interesting, but this is for real calculators and printers. I wonder if there is a printout option in emu48 or iHP48. I did not see an option for it so I am not sure if I am missing anything.
Of the RPL calculators, only the HP28C/S have trace mode (AFAIK). However, it is worth bearing in mind that trace mode is actually intended for debugging programs and seriously impacts the interaction speeds on hardware calculators.
Emulations of classic calculators provide seamless feedback in trace mode but they bear little resemblance to working with hardware calculators and the HP IR Printer.
One of the settings that you can change on RPL calculators is the delay between IR data streams. This defaults to 1.8 seconds as the printer can't keep up with a constant stream of IR data when powered by batteries alone. Even when powered by a power adapter one would generally never reduce this delay lower than 1 second. And this is still the case with the Swiss Micros calculators that feature IR printing capabilities (a lot of the engineering for the IR printer dates back to the HP41 in the 80's).
When you go back to earlier HP calculators with printing capabilities such as the HP97, you didn't notice delays as the hardware ran at far slower speeds.
Modern emulators allow you to use the calculator much like you would a modern printing calculator such as those made by Cannon. But it it should be considered a 'nice to have' rather than a purposely designed emulation feature.
RE: Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 - Steve Simpkin - 05-25-2022 07:16 PM
(05-25-2022 11:25 AM)nickapos Wrote:(05-25-2022 09:59 AM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote: See here (from message #13).
This is very interesting, but this is for real calculators and printers. I wonder if there is a printout option in emu48 or iHP48. I did not see an option for it so I am not sure if I am missing anything.
If you are using Emu48 on Windows, you might look at Christoph Giesselink's HP82240B printer simulator. The simulator is designed to work together with the Infrared Printer interface of the PC versions of the Hewlett Packard calculator emulators Emu28, Emu42 and Emu48.
https://hp.giesselink.com/hp82240b.htm
RE: Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 - nickapos - 05-25-2022 08:39 PM
(05-25-2022 07:16 PM)Steve Simpkin Wrote:Thank you very much, unfortunately I am using the emulators on Android and iOS. I do not have windows.(05-25-2022 11:25 AM)nickapos Wrote: This is very interesting, but this is for real calculators and printers. I wonder if there is a printout option in emu48 or iHP48. I did not see an option for it so I am not sure if I am missing anything.
If you are using Emu48 on Windows, you might look at Christoph Giesselink's HP82240B printer simulator. The simulator is designed to work together with the Infrared Printer interface of the PC versions of the Hewlett Packard calculator emulators Emu28, Emu42 and Emu48.
https://hp.giesselink.com/hp82240b.htm
RE: Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 - jonmoore - 05-26-2022 07:27 AM
(05-25-2022 08:39 PM)nickapos Wrote:(05-25-2022 07:16 PM)Steve Simpkin Wrote: If you are using Emu48 on Windows, you might look at Christoph Giesselink's HP82240B printer simulator. The simulator is designed to work together with the Infrared Printer interface of the PC versions of the Hewlett Packard calculator emulators Emu28, Emu42 and Emu48.Thank you very much, unfortunately I am using the emulators on Android and iOS. I do not have windows.
https://hp.giesselink.com/hp82240b.htm
If you're looking for a great trace print experience of a classic HP RPN calculator for iOS I would recommend the great emulations published by CuVee Software.
The HP-97 Pro app is my favourite for iPad, and the HP-67, is my favourite for iPhone (the 67 is also available as a Pro app for iPad). As you probably know, these were effectively the same calculator manufactured in two different form factors, one for desktop and one handheld.
Using trace mode with these apps is a seamless experience. One that functions equally well in typical 'financial' use cases, as well as its primary use case, program debugging/listing.
https://cuveesoft.ch/img/HP97.jpg
https://cuveesoft.ch/rpn67/img/p000.jpg
RE: Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 - nickapos - 05-26-2022 07:46 AM
(05-26-2022 07:27 AM)jonmoore Wrote:(05-25-2022 08:39 PM)nickapos Wrote: Thank you very much, unfortunately I am using the emulators on Android and iOS. I do not have windows.
If you're looking for a great trace print experience of a classic HP RPN calculator for iOS I would recommend the great emulations published by CuVee Software.
The HP-97 Pro app is my favourite for iPad, and the HP-67, is my favourite for iPhone (the 67 is also available as a Pro app for iPad). As you probably know, these were effectively the same calculator manufactured in two different form factors, one for desktop and one handheld.
Using trace mode with these apps is a seamless experience. One that functions equally well in typical 'financial' use cases, as well as its primary use case, program debugging/listing.
https://cuveesoft.ch/img/HP97.jpg
https://cuveesoft.ch/rpn67/img/p000.jpg
Thank you very much Jon, yes this is what I had in mind, I used to work for a bank and back then the adding machine Print-out was extremely valuable for us.
I can get the same functionality from plus42/Free42 now and I see HP97 emulator supports it as well. It seems that this functionality is not an option for hp48 or hp50 simulators for Android and iOS, but that is all right we have the other alternatives.
Plus42 is my primary calculator app these days, it does everything I need but I also use the prime and a 50g emulators from time to time when I want to use the equation libraries for equations I do not use frequently.
RE: Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 - Marco Polo - 05-26-2022 08:36 AM
(05-25-2022 08:39 PM)nickapos Wrote:EMU48 on Android integrates the printer seamlessly, out of the box(05-25-2022 07:16 PM)Steve Simpkin Wrote: If you are using Emu48 on Windows, you might look at Christoph Giesselink's HP82240B printer simulator. The simulator is designed to work together with the Infrared Printer interface of the PC versions of the Hewlett Packard calculator emulators Emu28, Emu42 and Emu48.Thank you very much, unfortunately I am using the emulators on Android and iOS. I do not have windows.
https://hp.giesselink.com/hp82240b.htm
RE: Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 - jonmoore - 05-26-2022 11:30 AM
(05-26-2022 08:36 AM)Marco Polo Wrote:(05-25-2022 08:39 PM)nickapos Wrote: Thank you very much, unfortunately I am using the emulators on Android and iOS. I do not have windows.EMU48 on Android integrates the printer seamlessly, out of the box
The issue isn't with regard to having an integrated printer emulation, it's about the calculator having the ability to print in 'Trace Mode', which automatically prints every entry as you enter it. The last HP calculator to feature this mode was the HP-28C/S (AFAIK). If a trace mode does exist on the 48/49/50 family of calculators it's hidden away (I've previously checked the Print options under I/0 and all flags, without any luck).
RE: Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 - Steve Simpkin - 05-27-2022 12:23 AM
(05-26-2022 11:30 AM)jonmoore Wrote:(05-26-2022 08:36 AM)Marco Polo Wrote: EMU48 on Android integrates the printer seamlessly, out of the box
The issue isn't with regard to having an integrated printer emulation, it's about the calculator having the ability to print in 'Trace Mode', which automatically prints every entry as you enter it. The last HP calculator to feature this mode was the HP-28C/S (AFAIK). If a trace mode does exist on the 48/49/50 family of calculators it's hidden away (I've previously checked the Print options under I/0 and all flags, without any luck).
While the HP48 series does not have a "Trace Mode" printing feature, something similar can be added using the vectored Enter routines in the link provided by Massimo Gnerucci in post 6 above. See message #13 in the following link:
https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv016.cgi?read=105354#105435
This may work with the built-in printer feature in the Android version of EMU48.
[Edit: Corrected name of link provider.]
RE: Question, always on printing with plus42/free42 - nickapos - 05-27-2022 01:24 AM
(05-27-2022 12:23 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote:(05-26-2022 11:30 AM)jonmoore Wrote: The issue isn't with regard to having an integrated printer emulation, it's about the calculator having the ability to print in 'Trace Mode', which automatically prints every entry as you enter it. The last HP calculator to feature this mode was the HP-28C/S (AFAIK). If a trace mode does exist on the 48/49/50 family of calculators it's hidden away (I've previously checked the Print options under I/0 and all flags, without any luck).
While the HP48 series does not have a "Trace Mode" printing feature, something similar can be added using the vectored Enter routines in the link provided by Massimo Gnerucci in post 6 above. See message #13 in the following link:
https://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv016.cgi?read=105354#105435
This may work with the built-in printer feature in the Android version of EMU48.
[Edit: Corrected name of link provider.]
Ok found the printer option in Emu48 I missed it the first time I checked. I will give it a go at some point. iHP48 seems to be lacking the printing functionality
Thank you very much