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where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - Don Shepherd - 07-15-2022 11:21 AM
to paraphrase an old Peter, Paul, and Mary song.
I recently acquired an old keypunch operator training book from 1970. Here is a paragraph from the book:
"It is important that all punctuation marks such as hyphens and commas be punched exactly as written by the programmer. Sometimes well-meaning keypunch operators with a good understanding of the English language change the punctuation marks to make the COBOL statement grammatically correct; this can be disastrous."
Indeed!
I haven't programmed for a living in several decades now, but I wonder if current programming languages are more forgiving of errors than old languages like FORTRAN and COBOL.
RE: where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - Roland57 - 07-15-2022 12:02 PM
Don,
if you like to punch some cards as in the good old times: visit us at technikum29 in Kelkheim/Germany !
regards
Roland
[attachment=10874]
RE: where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - toml_12953 - 07-15-2022 12:47 PM
(07-15-2022 11:21 AM)Don Shepherd Wrote: to paraphrase an old Peter, Paul, and Mary song.
I recently acquired an old keypunch operator training book from 1970. Here is a paragraph from the book:
"It is important that all punctuation marks such as hyphens and commas be punched exactly as written by the programmer. Sometimes well-meaning keypunch operators with a good understanding of the English language change the punctuation marks to make the COBOL statement grammatically correct; this can be disastrous."
Indeed!
When I worked as a contractor for the Army at Ft. Lee, VA, we had two IBM systems, one running OS and one running DOS. I'd submit coding forms to be punched by the operator, who happened to be Puerto Rican. She was so good at her job that if I deliberately made a mistake in the data, for testing, she'd punch it exactly as written but also type a card "correctly" and insert it sideways with a note. We had to write either OS or DOS at the top of the coding form to let the keypunch operator know what color job control cards to use so the computer ops would run the job on the correct system. When I submitted forms for the OS system, I'd get back one deck but when I submitted forms for the DOS system, I'd get back two decks! The keypunch operator thought DOS meant we wanted two decks! I don't know what she thought OS meant (you?)
RE: where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - Don Shepherd - 07-15-2022 01:31 PM
(07-15-2022 12:02 PM)Roland57 Wrote: Don,
if you like to punch some cards as in the good old times: visit us at technikum29 in Kelkheim/Germany !
regards
Roland
Roland, that place looks fantastic! I'd love to visit when COVID is under control (if ever). I see you have a little portable keypunch machine like I have.
Thanks for the link.
Don
RE: where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - Eddie W. Shore - 07-15-2022 01:39 PM
All the keypunching have pretty much gone digital.
RE: where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - lrdheat - 07-16-2022 02:36 AM
I punched cards for the meteorology department at Florida State University when I was a student in the early ‘70’s!
RE: where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - Steve Simpkin - 07-16-2022 05:23 AM
Hello. My name is Steve Simpkin and I have not operated a keypunch machine nor engaged in batch processing since 1983 (Fortran class).
RE: where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - trojdor - 07-16-2022 05:59 AM
I started working with computers on the IBM 1401 in 1973.
I still remember the sound the keypunch made when typing out programs.
We had to put one program step on each card, make sure the cards were in order, then feed them into the gigantic card reader that was affectionately call the "Card Eater".
Because if there was even the slightest bend to the corner of the cards, it didn't like it....and would proceed to devour your card and stop the entire reading process.
(Thus the punch card labels that warned not to "Fold, Spindle, or Mutilate" the card.)
Little bit of trivia...
The size of the actual punch card was copied from the old US dollar. (not the new size we use today)
mike
RE: where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - SammysHP - 07-16-2022 06:32 AM
(07-15-2022 12:02 PM)Roland57 Wrote: Don,
if you like to punch some cards as in the good old times: visit us at technikum29 in Kelkheim/Germany !
regards
Roland
Uhh... Didn't know we have something like this here in Germany! This comes on my list of places I'd like to visit, thanks!
RE: where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - Martin Hepperle - 07-16-2022 08:24 AM
(07-15-2022 11:21 AM)Don Shepherd Wrote: ...
I haven't programmed for a living in several decades now, but I wonder if current programming languages are more forgiving of errors than old languages like FORTRAN and COBOL.
Indeed, there is not much difference - modern programming languages are still picky when it comes to parentheses, brackets and semi-colons.
The only difference might be graphical programming languages like Squeak, which are used for educational purposes, but not by "real programmers".
But thanks to text editors you don't have to re-type the whole card ;-)
Martin
RE: where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - redglyph - 07-16-2022 10:08 AM
(07-15-2022 11:21 AM)Don Shepherd Wrote: I haven't programmed for a living in several decades now, but I wonder if current programming languages are more forgiving of errors than old languages like FORTRAN and COBOL.
They're not forgiving in the sense you still have to follow the grammar, but many grammars have become less cluttered and less rigid. A few languages have become clearer and more concise too, because the compiler does more of the heavy work. If you read a program in Kotlin, Python or in C#, it's a far cry from FORTRAN and its rigid syntax, or even from C and C++. In some you don't need semicolons anymore, or types can often be induced and omitted (thankfully, when it comes to functional programming).
So it feels more as fluttering along with the flow of ideas than punching machine codes.
Compilers have become smarter at detecting more potential problems too. The most impressive I've experienced is Rust, which usually proposes how to solve problems in the code and can induce a lot of types you don't need to declare anymore (and more, but it gets complicated to explain). It's good because the language has a much steeper learning curve.
RE: where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - Dave Britten - 07-16-2022 04:13 PM
Hey Don, I still have the card I made with your manual punch at HHC 2017 hanging up in my home office! We'll see if anybody is bored enough to "translate" it.
https://i.imgur.com/SmdL0eR.jpg
RE: where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - Maximilian Hohmann - 07-16-2022 04:38 PM
Hallo!
(07-16-2022 05:23 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote: Hello. My name is Steve Simpkin and I have not operated a keypunch machine nor engaged in batch processing since 1983 (Fortran class).
My name is not Steve Simpkin but everything else is identical for me including the date and the programming language :-)
Regards
Max
RE: where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - rprosperi - 07-16-2022 05:26 PM
While in college in the 70's, I worked in the computer center, including helping students learn to use the keypunch machine, operate the card reader for them, etc. Expecting this would likely be the last keypunch machine I would have a chance to operate, the day before graduation I went to the computer center and punched a few cards, Fortran statements with hollerith statements like 'GOODBYE', etc. I may still have those cards (I would never deliberately toss them out) but no idea where...
So far, my expectations were correct, though I'm still holding out a bit a hope to use one again one day.
RE: where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - DGM - 07-16-2022 10:13 PM
(07-16-2022 04:13 PM)Dave Britten Wrote: Hey Don, I still have the card I made with your manual punch at HHC 2017 hanging up in my home office! We'll see if anybody is bored enough to "translate" it.In the 70s and 80s, I worked for a company that used these cards and punched many a deck in COBOL and UPG, an NCR version of IBM's Report Program Generator or RPG. We called UPG the Universal Paper Generator because it generated lots of form feeds if you put something in the wrong column.
https://i.imgur.com/SmdL0eR.jpg
One of our banes was a dropped deck - having to put it all back in order.
Anyway, congratulations on being a DBA.
RE: where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - ndzied1 - 07-18-2022 02:15 PM
The only place I ever punched a card was here:
https://tcm.computerhistory.org/
Not sure if they still have the display that let's you punch a card. It was few decades ago.
I just missed cards in college. But we did still have some "Paper terminals".
My dad claimed one of the reasons he switched from electrical engineering to education in college was the damn cards and dropping them and getting them out of order too much.
RE: where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - ctrclckws - 07-19-2022 04:38 PM
In the past I worked for a company that created card decks for Jacquard Looms.
These controlled when the warp threads and the waft threads (left - right and perpendicular) were lifted and lowered so that patterns are woven into the final product cloth.
This was at least into the mid 1990's.
The designers worked on computers and had programs to convert the artwork into stacks of cards that were strung together in the correct order.
The cards themselves were much larger and thicker than the computer punch cards. They had to survive being used repeatedly.
RE: where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - Jim Horn - 07-19-2022 09:29 PM
(07-16-2022 04:13 PM)Dave Britten Wrote: Hey Don, I still have the card I made with your manual punch at HHC 2017 hanging up in my home office! We'll see if anybody is bored enough to "translate" it."DAVE BRITTENT DATABASE ADMINISTRATOR"
https://i.imgur.com/SmdL0eR.jpg
At the 1978 San Jose West Coast Computer Faire, someone posted a message on the public message board (the old type - in which paper messages were pinned) that was just a foot of punched tape. Of course, I had to read it for my friends.
RE: where have all the keypunch operators gone, long time passing - Martin Hepperle - 07-20-2022 11:39 AM
If you want to try for yourself, go to
https://masswerk.at/keypunch/
and click on the card to start the simulator - complete with animation and sound...
Martin