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+--- Thread: Long Shot #2 - BLAP Examples (/thread-1938.html)
Long Shot #2 - BLAP Examples - Ángel Martin - 08-08-2014 09:36 AM
Here's another post unlikely to be very successful, but we'll try anyway.
There's a very interesting Ladder Analysis program that uses the "backwards" technique to reduce the circuit and calculate the results.
"Eimac AS-49-34 Ladder analysis program for the HP-41C"
It's posted at TOS and also at the following site:
http://pa3csg.hoeplakee.nl/joomla25/index.php/old-stuff/71-the-eimac-eme-notes
here is the program:
http://pa3csg.hoeplakee.nl/joomla25/images/stories/PDF/eimac/AS-49-34.pdf
The documentation only describes the main aspects and lists the program but it's lacking any example of utilization. Because the program is very modular and routine-based, not having an example makes it almost impossible to use.
Has anyone come across this before, and succeed in getting it to work?
Any hints would be great.
Cheers,
ÁM
RE: Long Shot #2 - BLAP Examples - Thomas Klemm - 08-10-2014 07:32 AM
For this example I used the following program:
Code:
01 LBL "EX"
02 0
03 XEQ "RL"
04 1
05 XEQ "RS"
06 2
07 XEQ "RS"
08 3
09 XEQ "RP"
10 2
11 XEQ "RS"
12 7
13 XEQ "RP"
14 2
15 XEQ "RS"
16 1
17 XEQ "RS"
18 4
19 XEQ "RP"
20 2
21 XEQ "RS"
22 5
23 XEQ "RP"
24 2
25 XEQ "RS"
26 XEQ "VP"
27 ENDAt the end it will display:
V0=56.00<0.00
Since the system is linear you can scale the voltage down to 7 V, the current I will also scale down by a factor of 8, so the actual I is 125 mA, not the 1 A you originally assumed.
Cheers
Thomas
PS: There might be typos in the listing of BLAP.
Code:
Archive: blap.zip
Length Date Time Name
--------- ---------- ----- ----
1024 08-10-2014 09:26 BLAP.RAW
4337 08-10-2014 09:26 BLAP.TXT
92 08-10-2014 09:26 EX.RAW
289 08-10-2014 09:26 EX.TXT
--------- -------
5742 4 filesRE: Long Shot #2 - BLAP Examples - Ángel Martin - 08-11-2014 08:48 AM
Thanks much Thomas, I see not only you're a math old hand but feel comfortable with EE subjects as well!
Thanks for putting the program in RAW file - I realized I had two erroneous steps in my own rendition, I entered RCL/STO 03 instead of R08.
Your example helps a lot, I'll try with more involved ones, like those shown here:
http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-1665.html
The Grapevine's example is also a good test case to use, we'll see how it goes.
Best,
ÁM
RE: Long Shot #2 - BLAP Examples - Thomas Klemm - 08-14-2014 06:37 PM
We can introduce 5 currents \(I_1, ..., I_5\) in each of the "loops" of the ladder:
![[Image: BMy83.png]](http://i.stack.imgur.com/BMy83.png)
Using Kirchhoff's voltage law we can write 5 equations:
\[
\begin{align}
2I_1+5(I_1-I_2) &= 7\\
2I_2+4(I_2-I_3)+5(I_2-I_1) &= 0 \\
2I_3+7(I_3-I_4)+1I_3+4(I_3-I_2) &= 0\\
2I_4+3(I_4-I_5)+7(I_4-I_3) &= 0\\
2I_5+1I_5+3(I_5-I_4) &= 0
\end{align}
\]
This results in this system of linear equations:
\[
\begin{bmatrix}
7 & -5 & 0 & 0 & 0 \\
-5 & 11 & -4 & 0 & 0 \\
0 & -4 & 14 & -7 & 0 \\
0 & 0 & -7 & 12 & -3 \\
0 & 0 & 0 & -3 & 6
\end{bmatrix} \cdot \begin{bmatrix}
I_1\\
I_2\\
I_3\\
I_4\\
I_5
\end{bmatrix}=\begin{bmatrix}
7\\
0\\
0\\
0\\
0
\end{bmatrix}
\]
You could use the HP-48 to solve that:
[7 0 0 0 0]
ENTER
[[7 -5 0 0 0]
-5 11 -4 0 0
0 -4 14 -7 0
0 0 -7 12 -3
0 0 0 -3 6]
/
This will give you:
[ 1.625 .875 .375 .25 .125 ]
RE: Long Shot #2 - BLAP Examples - Thomas Klemm - 08-14-2014 09:00 PM
There's an example in the Electric Circuits program by Guillermo Castarés:
![[Image: circ2.jpg]](http://www.hpmuseum.org/software/41/circ2.jpg)
This is the program that I have written for it:
Code:
01 LBL "CI"
02 0
03 XEQ "RL"
04 16
05 XEQ "RS"
06 0
07 -20
08 XEQ "ZP"
09 1 E7
10 5 E9
11 XEQ "PLCS"
12 30
13 XEQ "RP"
14 XEQ "Z"
15 ENDMake sure to have the frequency f = 50Hz stored as GHz in register 08:
5 E-8
STO 08
The result is:
Z0=9.59<-29.20
If we want to calculate V1 we have to multiply this by I = 10:
10
*
P-R
This matches the result provided: V1 = 83,7467 - 46,7976i
Kind regards
Thomas
RE: Long Shot #2 - BLAP Examples - jebem - 08-14-2014 11:56 PM
(08-14-2014 06:37 PM)Thomas Klemm Wrote: We can introduce 5 currents \(I_1, ..., I_5\) in each of the "loops" of the ladder:
Using Kirchhoff's voltage law we can write 5 equations:
\[
\begin{align}
2I_1+5(I_1-I_2) &= 7\\
2I_2+4(I_2-I_3)+5(I_2-I_1) &= 0 \\
2I_3+7(I_3-I_4)+1I_3+4(I_3-I_2) &= 0\\
2I_4+3(I_4-I_5)+7(I_4-I_3) &= 0\\
2I_5+1I_5+3(I_5-I_4) &= 0
\end{align}
\]
This results in this system of linear equations:
\[
\begin{bmatrix}
7 & -5 & 0 & 0 & 0 \\
-5 & 11 & -4 & 0 & 0 \\
0 & -4 & 14 & -7 & 0 \\
0 & 0 & -7 & 12 & -3 \\
0 & 0 & 0 & -3 & 6
\end{bmatrix} \cdot \begin{bmatrix}
I_1\\
I_2\\
I_3\\
I_4\\
I_5
\end{bmatrix}=\begin{bmatrix}
7\\
0\\
0\\
0\\
0
\end{bmatrix}
\]
You could use the HP-48 to solve that:
[7 0 0 0 0]
ENTER
[[7 -5 0 0 0]
-5 11 -4 0 0
0 -4 14 -7 0
0 0 -7 12 -3
0 0 0 -3 6]
/
This will give you:
[ 1.625 .875 .375 .25 .125 ]
Thank You for sharing your knowledge, Thomas!
Excellent practical example of mathematics application in the field.
This exercise reminds me of one of my EE teachers from the 70's.
He tried hard to educate us on the Kirchhoff laws.
He used to smoke a pipe all the time, even during the class (!).
Those were the times when an educated adult was allowed to smoke everywhere and anytime.
I have added the current legend to the diagram:
![[Image: malhas1.jpg]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-H16ZCdWxn8c/U-1K_tsG5kI/AAAAAAAACBM/ntAQp10YVZg/s1600/malhas1.jpg)
RE: Long Shot #2 - BLAP Examples - Ángel Martin - 08-15-2014 02:46 PM
This is going the right way, thanks Thomas!
I've added BLAP to my Electrical Engineering module (ETSII-5), which also has the Grapevine program and Guillermo's included - well I should say enhanced versions of both, as I added a few touches to improve the data entry and output processes.
I'll add the examples for BLAP as well, this will round up the module pretty nicely. Will post it once it's all done, just give me a coupe of days.
Anyone wants to go for a BLAP example for the Grapevine's circuit? ;-)
RE: Long Shot #2 - BLAP Examples - Thomas Klemm - 08-15-2014 05:37 PM
(08-14-2014 11:56 PM)jebem Wrote: This exercise reminds me of one of my EE teachers from the 70's.
He tried hard to educate us on the Kirchhoff laws.
He used to smoke a pipe all the time, even during the class (!).
Those were the times when an educated adult was allowed to smoke everywhere and anytime.
We had a French teacher who also always smoked a pipe. When we pointed him to the "no smoking" sign, he said succinctly: "Oh, c'est seulement pour les analphabètes."
Quote:I have added the current legend to the diagram:
Thanks for this. That surely helps!
Cheers
Thomas
RE: Long Shot #2 - BLAP Examples - Ángel Martin - 08-15-2014 08:22 PM
(08-15-2014 05:37 PM)Thomas Klemm Wrote: We had a French teacher who also always smoked a pipe. When we pointed him to the "no smoking" sign, he said succinctly: "Oh, c'est seulement pour les analphabètes."
Well it sure didn't read "Défense de Fumer" so I guess a French teacher wasn't concerned about the sign , haha
RE: Long Shot #2 - BLAP Examples - Thomas Klemm - 08-15-2014 08:53 PM
(08-15-2014 08:22 PM)Ángel Martin Wrote: Well it sure didn't read "Défense de Fumer" so I guess a French teacher wasn't concerned about the sign , haha
I was just a pictogram similar to this:
![[Image: niX89xz7T.png]](http://www.clipartbest.com/cliparts/niX/89x/niX89xz7T.png)
RE: Long Shot #2 - BLAP Examples - Massimo Gnerucci - 08-15-2014 09:51 PM
(08-15-2014 08:53 PM)Thomas Klemm Wrote:(08-15-2014 08:22 PM)Ángel Martin Wrote: Well it sure didn't read "Défense de Fumer" so I guess a French teacher wasn't concerned about the sign , haha
I was just a pictogram similar to this:
Ceci n'est pas une pipe...
RE: Long Shot #2 - BLAP Examples - Ángel Martin - 08-16-2014 06:06 PM
See the attached MOD file (zipped to make it acceptable) with
1. the complete BLAP,
2. Grapevine's ADV-Z and ADV-R, and
3. Guillermo's "EEA" and my "EEE" for data entry
plus a lot of other programs, like the Power-Flow Equations, etc.
Note that some programs use functions from the AMC_OS/X module
Thomas' examples are included as "CT1" and "CT2", which also store the frequency as appropriate.
Cheers,
'AM
RE: Long Shot #2 - BLAP Examples - Ángel Martin - 08-17-2014 07:10 AM
Here's the QRG: (sorry but I can't get the columns properly formatted - a pdf will be available at TOS shortly).
PHP Code:
# Program Description Dependency Author Source Printer?
0 -ETSII 5A section header
1 "Y-D" Delta <-> Wye Conversion Ángel Martin Author's Collection Yes
2 "D-Y" Delta <-> Wye Conversion Ángel Martin Author's Collection Yes
3 "POL?" Polar Prompt Ángel Martin Author's Collection
4 "ZWYE" to WYE 41Z Ángel Martin 41Z Module
5 "ZDLT" to DELTA 41Z Ángel Martin 41Z Module
6 "DYD" Subroutine 41Z Ángel Martin 41Z Module
7 "LOGEX" Logic Network AMC_OS/X Sture Sjöström UPLE# 10574
8 "TRUTH" Truth Table ???
9 "AND" AND gate ???
10 "AOI" And-Or-Invert Gate ???
11 "bIN" ???
12 "BIN" ???
13 "NAND" Not-AND gate ???
14 "NOR" Not-OR gate ???
15 "NOT" NOT gate ???
16 "OR" OR gate ???
17 "OREX" OR Exclusive gate ???
18 SPR" Sum of Parallel Resistors Ángel Martin Author's Collection
19 SSC" Sum of Serial Capacitors Ángel Martin Author's Collection
20 -CHOPPER section header
21 "SPACREG" Single-Phase AC Regulator AMC_OS/X Ángel Martin Author's Collection no
22 "NR" Ángel Martin Author's Collection
23 "UZeF" Ángel Martin Author's Collection
24 "R" Resistence value Ángel Martin Author's Collection
25 "L" Inductance value Ángel Martin Author's Collection
26 "S<)e" Ángel Martin Author's Collection
27 "P<)e" Ángel Martin Author's Collection
28 "ND" New Data Ángel Martin Author's Collection
29 "OUT<)e" Ángel Martin Author's Collection
30 "OUTUEF" Ángel Martin Author's Collection
31 "SLV" Solve routine PPC Members PPC ROM
32 -POWER SYS section header
33 "ABCD" 2-port Elements AMC_OS/X Ángel Martin Author's Collection
34 "CAMELA" Mechanical Forces in Power Lines Ángel Martin UPLE#
35 "#" Function to Solve Ángel Martin UPLE#
36 SINH Seno Hiperbólico Ángel Martin SandMath ROM
37 COSH Coseno Hiperbólico Ángel Martin SandMath ROM
38 "H>T" Quadrupole Conversion G. Gil UPLE# 25242
39 "T>H" Quadrupole Conversion G. Gil UPLE# 25242
40 "T>Y" Quadrupole Conversion G. Gil UPLE# 25242
41 "Y>T" Quadrupole Conversion G. Gil UPLE# 25242
42 "Y<>H" Quadrupole Conversion G. Gil UPLE# 25242
43 "Y<>Z" Quadrupole Conversion G. Gil UPLE# 25242
44 "Z<>H" Quadrupole Conversion G. Gil UPLE# 25242
45 "Z<>T" Quadrupole Conversion G. Gil UPLE# 25242
46 "F1" Routine for Camela - no slope Ángel Martin This project
47 "F2" Routine for Camela - no slope Ángel Martin This project
48 "SYS2N" Non-Linear systems - 2-Equations FJ Pamies Durá UPLE# 35006
49 "SV2" Subroutine mode Ángel Martin This project
50 "YZ-A" Impedance output for ADV-R/Z Ángel Martin This Project
51 "CT1" Blap Example 1 Thomas Klemm http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/
52 "CT2" Blap Example 2 Thomas Klemm http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/
0 -ETSII 5B section header
1 "ADV-Z" Advantage Z ADV Coffin - Wadman Grapevine
2 "ADV-R" Advantage R - ADV Coffin - Wadman Grapevine
3 "EEE" Electric Circuit Data Entry AMC_OS/X Ángel Martin This Project no
4 "EEA" Electric Circuit Analysis ADV Guillermo Castarés HP Museum no
5 "IELS" Intensity Source Routine Guillermo Castarés HP Museum
6 "VELS" Voltage Source Routine Guillermo Castarés HP Museum
7 "FRQ" Frequency Routine Guillermo Castarés HP Museum
8 "PFE-GS" Power Flow Equations (Gauss-Seidel) Ángel Martin Author's Collection
9 "PFE-RV" Review of Results AMC_OS/X Ángel Martin Author's Collection
10 "+" Complex Sum Martin - Frey This project
11 "-" Complex Subtraction Martin - Frey This project
12 "*" Complex Multiply Martin - Frey This project
13 "/" Complex Division Martin - Frey This project
14 "1" Complex Inverse Martin - Frey This project
15 AIP Alpha Integer Part HP Co. Advantage Pac
16 E3/ División por 1000 Ángel Martin SandMath ROM
17 E3/E+ División por 1000, suma 1 Ángel Martin SandMath ROM
18 -LADDER ANL section header
19 "BG" Reversed Gain Block Gary D. Frey
20 "BLAP" Backwards Ladder Analysis Gary D. Frey Varian Eimac
21 "CP" Capacitor parallel Gary D. Frey
22 "CS" Capacitor Series Gary D. Frey
23 "GB" Transistor Gain Block Gary D. Frey
24 "IS" Compute Series Current Gary D. Frey
25 "LP" Inductance Parallel Gary D. Frey
26 "LS" Inductance Series Gary D. Frey
27 "OSTP" Open Stub in Parallel Gary D. Frey
28 "OSTS" Open Stub in Series Gary D. Frey
29 "PLCP" Paralllel LC in parallel Gary D. Frey
30 "PLCS" Parallel LC in Series Gary D. Frey
31 "PRCS" Parallel RC in Series Gary D. Frey
32 "PRCP" Parallel RC in parallel Gary D. Frey
33 "PRXP" Parallel RLC in parallel Gary D. Frey
34 "PRXS" Parallel RLC in Series Gary D. Frey
35 "RG" Compute Gain for RG Gen. Gary D. Frey
36 "RL" Initialize Load Resistance Gary D. Frey
37 "RP" Resistance in parallel Gary D. Frey
38 "RS" Resistance in Series Gary D. Frey
39 "S" Compute SF and SI for RL/RG Gary D. Frey
40 "SLCP" Series LC in parallel Gary D. Frey
41 "SLCS" Series LC in Series Gary D. Frey
42 "SRCP" Series RC in parallel Gary D. Frey
43 "SRCS" Series RC in series Gary D. Frey
44 "SRXP" Series RLC in parallel Gary D. Frey
45 "SRXS" Series RLC in Series Gary D. Frey
46 "SSTP" Shorted Stub in Parallel Gary D. Frey
47 "SSTS" Shorted Stub in Series Gary D. Frey
48 "TF" ideal Transformer Gary D. Frey
49 "TL" Transmission Line Gary D. Frey
50 "VP" Compute Voltage to Ground Gary D. Frey
51 "Z" Compute Impedance Gary D. Frey
52 "ZP" R+JX in parallel Gary D. Frey
53 "ZS" R+JX in series Gary D. Frey
RE: Long Shot #2 - BLAP Examples - Gerson W. Barbosa - 08-18-2014 03:07 AM
Alternatively, if we want neither programming nor linear system solving, we can use the WP 34S and do
1 ENTER 2 + STO 01
3 g || 2 + STO 02
7 g || 3 + STO 03
4 g || 2 + STO 04
5 g || 2 + 7 x<>y /
5 RCL 04 5 + / *
4 RCL 03 4 + / *
7 RCL 02 7 + / *
3 RCL 01 3 + / * --> 0.125
Gerson.
RE: Long Shot #2 - BLAP Examples - Thomas Klemm - 08-19-2014 02:05 AM
Or then you write a small program:
Code:
LBL'BLA'
LBL A
X<>Y
R↓
RCL* T
+
R↑
RTN
LBL B
RCL Z
X<>Y
/
+
ENDYou start with X = 1A and Y = 0V:
1 A
2 A
3 B
2 A
7 B
2 A
1 A
4 B
2 A
5 B
2 A
You end up with: X = 13A and Y = 56V.
Since you know both current and voltage you don't have to backtrack the rightmost current but can calculate it immediately: 7/56 = 0.125
Cheers
Thomas
PS: The same program works with complex numbers when using the HP-42S. With the WP-34S you'd have to use the CPX variants of the operations. That's the big advantage of a complex mode or type: you don't have to bother whether to use real or complex numbers. Instead you can even mix them.