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+--- Thread: Olivetti electrosensitive and Canon thermal papers (/thread-19866.html)
Olivetti electrosensitive and Canon thermal papers - Duane Hess - 04-29-2023 10:11 PM
Obtained some electrosensitive paper for my Olivetti Divisumma 18 from a seller in Poland.
My searchs (Google) produced a number of cross references to the same paper. In another museum post about the Casio FP-602 and FP-10, a number of other devices using the same paper were commented upon. Very useful in finding the paper, as it might be listed by its width or by product name. The latter varying greatly between vendor products.
So decided to provide a, hopefully accurate, list of other products using the same paper. Interestingly in my TAS search I located paper suitable for the Olivetti. People use several spellings of electrosenstivie, including "electro sensitive" and "electro-sensitive". My search was:
electro-sensitive -velostat
The -velostat elimiated a bunch of listings for velostat, which is something else altogether.
According to John Wolff's site:
https://www.johnwolff.id.au/calculators/Olivetti/D18/D18.htm
The Divisumma 18 uses paper 60mm wide, 35mm roll diameter and is approx 20m long (about 4,000 lines).
In my Divisumma I've used 57mm wide paper also and it works fine.
(the Divisumma 28 and Underwood-Olivetti 280 use the same paper)
What I located was 59.5mm wide and 30 meters long, roll diameter 44mm and core ID 12.2mm. Too big around to fit well, but who cares? I now have Divisumma paper, so roll off a bunch by hand and stuff it in. Turned out with shipping to the USA to be about $7/roll. 10 rolls weigh about 0.95Kg.
For reference, listing other vendor names for 60mm (or 59.5mm) eletrosensitive paper. Which may help in your searches.
In the USA, I've seen it referred to as: aluminized, silverized, metallised, metallic, or metal paper
The most productive cross reference stumbled upon was "Radionics silverized electro-sensitive paper." Same 60mm wide paper for "Compatible D6007-5, Radionics D6000 D6500 Central Station Receivers." Whatever they are, believe it had something to do with shipping (i.e. large commercial/military ships). Those sources claimed the OEM was OJI paper in Japan and their product name was Silverno 890-2B. Which is currently listed on a shipping supply website:
https://www.querin-shipsupply.com/printer-specialty-papers/hengstler/890/971/specialty-metallised-paper-60mmx30m
From every appearance, it appears the product is available. As opposed to most websites who are always "out of stock." E-mailed Querin after hours, so likely will hear nothing until Monday. If their web page is accurate its the cheapest I've found.
Silverno 890-2B is also used in a product called R.Bosch RMP 8146-24v. But I couldn't figure out what it was, I believe a printer. Being there was scads of products using Silverno, its strange I can't find them now.
Interesting if you Google Silverno 890-2b and 890-2b Silverno, many results are different. *do not buy from bladegoods.fun* Its a bogus site, which I verified with the company they claim to be associated with at the bottom of many pages.
Other obscure references of 60mm electrosensitive paper are the "Panasonic Digital Printer" but don't have a model number. So that seems an unusable reference. Another, hard to tell reference is the "Nansei k541 discharge printing printer paper."
Things you do not wish to find from Google searches, was a government surplus auction for 90 rolls of NOS Silverno 890-2B which closed for $100 late last month.
Another website claiming to have stock for electrosensitive paper is:
diagramma.ch
who is a paper manufacturer with a rather interesting list of electrosensitive and thermal paper. They manufacture a lot of medial industry papers. Which to me is the definition "its going to be expensive". Received quotes for electrosensitive paper, which were a tad pricey. However, their quote on a thermal paper I want, which is of a very odd size, was very good.
Have pending inquiries with companies in India, which likely will take weeks to get results. Unlike other companies, the folks in India seem to be happy to manufacture it, if they don't stock it. But they have LOTS of questions and I'm not a paper manufacturer, so this will take time. But sounds promising. Instead of the usual flimsy thermal paper used today might be able to get heavier paper like the original stuff was in the 70's. Myself, I liked the blue print. Hoping to find out what it will all cost soon.
Another note, for those of us wanting direct print thermal paper. i.e the thermal paper we're all familiar with, I find it peculiar sourcing an "odd" size is so difficult.
Let's face it paper manufactuers make huge rolls of paper and have slicer machines to whittle off what you want. Seems to me, in the USA if the size is not stock why can't you simply wait a week while its cut and pay a small charge for custom sizing. Have not located anyone who does that. But, you know, so many manufactuers. Likely have not called the right ones.
On the thermal paper realm, I'm trying to acquire 6mm wide x 262' (80m) paper which was used in the Canon Pocketronic and Pocketronic II. 6mm was also used in the Canon Communicator and Canon Communicator CS-7S and CS-7P models. But the Communicator roll size is 50m. TAS sources ..... will see if something less expensive comes up. Diagramma is very promising, but shipping from Switzerland will be the issue.
Also trying to locate paper for a Canon SX-300 series programmable calculator. The printer has a dual-width setting. Prints on 77mm or 140mm wide paper. (Canon part numbers TP-77 and TP-140) Can find 77mm paper--3" fairly easily (actually source 76mm). But the 140mm (5.5") is non-existant. Guess if worse comes to worse buy 8.5" thermal FAX paper and get out the knife. Then I'll have a roll of each.
In all this, I haven't thought on checking about the paper for the HP-9120A and 9866A. I don't have either, so haven't came to mind. Am aware the 9120A is electrostatic and 9866A is thermal, but would be happy to inquire if someone would give me the width and lengths. Certainly am contacting enough people lately, might as well add it to the list.
RE: Olivetti electrosensitive and Canon thermal papers - John Garza (3665) - 06-13-2023 01:01 AM
Not too difficult to build one: a couple of axles, handle and mounted xacto knife tip. Similar to the teletype ribbon re-inker contraptions.
RE: Olivetti electrosensitive and Canon thermal papers - Roland57 - 06-13-2023 09:09 AM
Details from an original box of three rolls of electrosensitive paper for the hp9120:
width: 2.5" 64mm
length 250' 76.2 m
outer diam: 90 mm
inner diam: 19 mm
[attachment=12234]
Roland
RE: Olivetti electrosensitive and Canon thermal papers - Duane Hess - 06-20-2023 07:31 AM
Been sick for a number of weeks, seems to be going away. Haven't done much lately.
The 1st blurb in this thread was simply to provide cross reference names/part numbers.
Prices I've found (my only association with companies is as a customer). All shipping is to USA.
Electrosensitive papers:
http://www.diagramma.ch multi-language support
they had the following widths in mm:
10, 57, 60, 70, 101, 114, 120, 127, 216; various lengths on numerous widths
(Sinclair ZX-Printer 4"(101mm)x20m for ZX-81 Computer)
For my Sharp:
57mmx40m - 11.22Euro/roll incl ship for 40 rolls--they only ship swisspost priority trackable
seemed rather expensive, so didn't order.
e-Bay seller STANDBY (in Poland) (59.5mm x 30m, roll diameter 49mm, core I.D. 12.2mm)
(search "electro-sensitive paper") 5 roll pack - item# 265326590288
60mmx30m - 10 rolls $53.90 + ship $12.24 = $66.14
subsequently found seller has his own website which is a bit cheaper:
http://www.standby-shop.eu -- price seems to vary frequently; multi-language support
(same company as STANDBY on e-Bay)
-- today $5.13/roll includes VAT
-- ship for 10rolls $9.71 standard delivery trackable (not DPD)
-- total 10 rolls incl ship to USA $61.01
-- when made my order about 3 weeks ago price with ship was $5.58/roll
($4.61/roll + $9.71 ship for 10 rolls)
http://www.querin-shipsupply.com
- searched "specialty papers" - found metallised 60mmx30m order number: 13520000
- didn't use their menus to locate products, quite confusing
- most papers listed by application (i.e. device used in) as opposed to paper type
-- apparently numerous electrosensitive papers used in "echo locators"
- simple form to ask them questions -- may take several days for response
60mmx30m, roll diameter 49mm, core I.D. 12.2mm - 4Euro/roll ordered 10
requested no "expedited" shipping, non-trackable to USA to save cost; 20E for 10 rolls
-- total cost was 6Euro/roll
** would have to wonder if EU countries would have significantly cheaper shipping
** all 60mm (59.5mm) wide papers were exactly the same, irrespective of source
RE: Olivetti electrosensitive and Canon thermal papers - Duane Hess - 06-20-2023 07:45 AM
Have become aware of a currently manufactured electrosensitive paper (in India). However, have no information on price, roll sizes, etc. One brand name (if I have it correct) is SAFIR. (https://www.computechindia.net/)
Evidently it looks like normal paper, printing black on white. And is made for "spark" or electrosensitive printers, such as my Olivetti Divisumma 18 and the Sinclair ZX printer, etc. i.e. exactly what the "aluminized" paper is for.
Need to ship samples of papers I use to India just to make sure all is understood, so will take a while once I'm better.
Computech also has NOS aluminized paper, but don't know prices at the moment. Sounds like they may slice rolls into the sizes you need.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Relative to previous post:
diagramma.ch is a paper manufacturer, so I don't know if their electrosensitive paper is new-old-stock or if they manufacture it.
Querin and STANDBY (e-Bay and their own site) is new-old-stock. So I assume sooner or later they will run out.
RE: Olivetti electrosensitive and Canon thermal papers - Duane Hess - 06-20-2023 07:49 AM
(06-13-2023 09:09 AM)Roland57 Wrote: Details from an original box of three rolls of electrosensitive paper for the hp9120:
width: 2.5" 64mm
length 250' 76.2 m
outer diam: 90 mm
inner diam: 19 mm
Roland
Don't have a 9120 printer, but noticed the manual appears to show conical paper holders. Maybe the 60mm paper above can be mounted and center correctly. Would wonder if the 2mm missing on each side would cause a problem.
RE: Olivetti electrosensitive and Canon thermal papers - Duane Hess - 06-20-2023 08:24 AM
On the thermal paper side:
Have a Canon Pocketronic & Pocketronic II which uses 6mm x 80m paper. Refills obtained from diagramma.ch.
Technically the diagramma refills are for the Canon Communicator and Communicator CC-7S & CC-7P:
6mm x 50m.
2.95Euro/roll, ordered 20 rolls, shipping 26Euro, total cost 4.25E/roll
Noticed Diagramma also had:
P6060 (Olivetti?) / HP9830,9845 (Hewlett Packard)
For device type: P6060 / HP9830,9845
For device manufacturer: Hewlett Packard
For original P/N: 222 mm x 700-a-13
Item number: 5455001.007
Packaging unit: 10
** don't know what 700-a-13 means, might be sheet paper,
if so, A13 would likely be 8-1/2x11 inch paper
Texas Instruments PC-100 SR-60 TP-30250 2.45/2.5"x250'
Texas Instruments Silenwriter 215mm x 91m (8.5")
(should fit Apple Silentype 216mm x 24m)
No idea what the HP and TI papers cost.