(HP71B) HP-IL PILBOX ILPER ILVIDEO setup; HowTo?

(HP71B) HP-IL PILBOX ILPER ILVIDEO setup; HowTo? - Printable Version

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(HP71B) HP-IL PILBOX ILPER ILVIDEO setup; HowTo? - floppy - 11-27-2023 06:40 PM

Hello,

in order to achieve the access to 2 different virtual drives for the same HP-IL + PILBOX + ILPER + ILVIDEO configured HP-IL loop, I am trying to make the setup in the attachment.

However, now how to reach all these
a) HDRIVE16.DAT
b) VIDEO
c) PRINTER from the HP71B ?
(so far not successfull. PILBOX seen at COM11, however due to lack of knowledge, currently lost for reaching HDRIVE16.DAT).

And YES: I am reading the manuals.

HP71B should reach the HDRIVE16.DAT; later I will take this HP71B out and put an HP41 in the same loop without changing anything, then the first drive seen in the loop = HDRIVE1.DAT, should hopefully been seen.

Background: having this setup starting automatically on an ARM headless board, whatever I will connect it to the ARM, the HP71B and HP41 should be able to find the drive. HP41 has its own HDRIVE1.DAT. HP71B has its own HDRIVE16.DAT (clear separation of data).

UPDATE: HP41 could connect to HDRIVE1 and PRINTER after unclicking the IDY Frame box in the PIL-BOX Bridge. Will check now the HP71B. Progress made. HP71B connect now to the loop. Reaching the 2nd drive HDRIVE16.DAT still not achieved.

RE: (HP71B) HP-IL PILBOX ILPER ILVIDEO setup; HowTo? - Sylvain Cote - 11-27-2023 09:57 PM

It is working on my side.

Environment: macOS Ventura → Parallels Desktop → Windows 7 Pro 32 bits → IL Apps

Configuration

Code:

Hardware

  HP-71B        →  PIL-Box: HP-IL

Software 

  ilpilbox.exe  → [PIL-Box: COM4] [in-port: 60000] [out-port: 60001]

  Ilper.exe     → #1              [in-port: 60001] [out-port: 60002]

  Ilper.exe     → #2              [in-port: 60002] [out-port: 60003]

  ILVideo80.exe →                 [in-port: 60003] [out-port: 60000]

IL scope - device detection

Code:

TAD 01  RFC     SAI     DAB 2E    ; Ilper.exe #1  - Printer - :PRINTER(1) - general printer

TAD 02  RFC     SAI     DAB 10    ; Ilper.exe #1  - HP9114B - :TAPE(1)    - device dependent commands mass storage

TAD 03  RFC     SAI     DAB 10    ; Ilper.exe #1  - HDRIVE1 - :TAPE(2)    - device dependent commands mass storage

TAD 04  RFC     SAI     DAB 4E    ; Ilper.exe #1  - DosLink - :DOSLINK(1) - general interface

TAD 05  RFC     SAI     DAB 2E    ; Ilper.exe #2  - Printer - :PRINTER(2) - general printer

TAD 06  RFC     SAI     DAB 10    ; Ilper.exe #2  - HP9114B - :TAPE(3)    - device dependent commands mass storage

TAD 07  RFC     SAI     DAB 10    ; Ilper.exe #2  - HDRIVE1 - :TAPE(4)    - device dependent commands mass storage

TAD 08  RFC     SAI     DAB 4E    ; Ilper.exe #2  - DosLink - :DOSLINK(2) - general interface

TAD 09  RFC     SAI     DAB 32    ; ILVideo80.exe - Video   - :DISPLAY(1) - MC00701A/92198A 80x24 display interface

RE: (HP71B) HP-IL PILBOX ILPER ILVIDEO setup; HowTo? - Christoph Giesselink - 11-28-2023 12:02 AM

(11-27-2023 06:40 PM)floppy Wrote: HP71B connect now to the loop. Reaching the 2nd drive HDRIVE16.DAT still not achieved.

Looking into the Scope windows I only see NOP frames. For me the controller isn't initialized correctly. In the case of a HP71 do RESET HPIL @ RESTORE IO to initialize the loop with the device addressing sequence.

Sorry these are HP71 basics.

RE: (HP71B) HP-IL PILBOX ILPER ILVIDEO setup; HowTo? - Sylvain Cote - 11-28-2023 12:08 AM

(11-28-2023 12:02 AM)Christoph Giesselink Wrote: Looking into the Scope windows I only see NOP frames. For me the controller isn't initialized correctly.
In the case of a HP71 do RESET HPIL @ RESTORE IO to initialize the loop with the device addressing sequence.

You are right, I did not look into his scope windows, good catch!

RE: (HP71B) HP-IL PILBOX ILPER ILVIDEO setup; HowTo? - floppy - 11-28-2023 07:00 PM

Got it.
The 2nd mass storage in the loop had the AID 7 which could be seen in the HP-IL Device info.
See attachment.

Now the device can be reached with CAT :7 from the HP71B
I assume all other functions must be from the type :7 with the HP71B

Conlusion:
- in the same HP IL loop (2 different storage drives, 1 video, .. 2 ILPERs)
- untick the IDY Frames in the pilbox bridge
- look at the device info and use directly the number with HP71B
- HP41 reach its first mass storage in the loop
- HP71B reach its own storage in the loop in this case by using :7
- same HP-IL setup can be used by both calculator

RE: (HP71B) HP-IL PILBOX ILPER ILVIDEO setup; HowTo? - Sylvain Cote - 11-28-2023 08:39 PM

(11-28-2023 07:00 PM)floppy Wrote: Now the device can be reached with CAT :7 from the HP71B
I assume all other functions must be from the type :7 with the HP71B

I don't follow you, any controller (41, 71, 75, etc) can access any peripheral on the loop.

The 41 is the oldest controller and the one who has the most limitations.
The HP-IL module (82160A) firmware can only access 128KB tapes but if you plug-in the Extended IL ROM from Skiwd then you can access tape/disk of up to 1MB.

On some controllers you select the peripheral then do the action and on some others the peripheral selection is part of the action.

Code:

41 -> 6  SELECT  DIR

71 -> CAT :6  _or_  CAT :TAPE(3)  _or_ one of the six type specifiers

References

Code:

82160A HP-41/HP-IL Module Owner's Manual, section Interface Control Operations

82401A HP-71/HP-IL Module Owner's Manual, section Getting Started, sub-section Specifying HP-IL Devices

       HP-75 Owner's Manual, section HP-IL Operations

RE: (HP71B) HP-IL PILBOX ILPER ILVIDEO setup; HowTo? - J-F Garnier - 11-30-2023 08:22 AM

(11-27-2023 06:40 PM)floppy Wrote: HP41 has its own HDRIVE1.DAT. HP71B has its own HDRIVE16.DAT (clear separation of data).

As I mentioned a few times on an other HP41 forum that I can't link here, this is not correct.
Well, it may look correct most of the time, but is not as a general rule.

The HP41 accesses all the mass storage units for most commands, except DIR and NEWM.
That is, when you attempt to load (READP) or save (WRTP) a program, the 41 searches for the file (to be loaded) or for a place (for a file to be saved) on each mass storage unit, starting from the address defined by SELECT.

Example with your setup:
With the HP-71, create and save a dummy program named PROG1 on the unit you dedicated to it.
The resulting file will be of type BASIC.
Now, use the HP-41, create a dummy program also named PROG1, and attempt to save it on the unit dedicated to the 41.
You will get a "DUP FL NAME" error.

If you are aware of this behaviour, your setup is perfectly usable. Just take care to use different file names for 41 and 71 files. Also be aware that when the 1st unit will be full, the 41 will automatically use the next unit.

More details in section "Using Multiple Mass Storage Devices" of the HP-41 HP-IL manual.

J-F

RE: (HP71B) HP-IL PILBOX ILPER ILVIDEO setup; HowTo? - born2laser - 12-01-2023 05:33 AM

(11-30-2023 08:22 AM)J-F Garnier Wrote: The HP41 accesses all the mass storage units for most commands, except DIR and NEWM.
That is, when you attempt to load (READP) or save (WRTP) a program, the 41 searches for the file (to be loaded) or for a place (for a file to be saved) on each mass storage unit, starting from the address defined by SELECT.

So very true… I was recently bitten by not understanding how SELECT works until (after an hour or so of frustration ) I read the manual J-F is referencing. What made it the more puzzling is that I was not using my real 41 at the time but V41, and it doesn’t show the error messages!

Juan