+- HP Forums (https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum)
+-- Forum: HP Calculators (and very old HP Computers) (/forum-3.html)
+--- Forum: HP Prime (/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice (/thread-211.html)
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - Jurgen Keller - 01-14-2014 07:33 PM
Quote:Even though the beta testers voted unanimously for the higher contrast, marketing has won out.If in nearly each and every review and in many posts on relevant forums you can read that the color scheme is bad, is this good marketing? Not in my opinion. Is the person in charge still working for HP? I'm pretty sure. (Sorry for the last question, but the Orange is really really annoying for my eyes.)
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - Eddie W. Shore - 01-14-2014 08:57 PM
(01-14-2014 10:40 AM)Dominik Holenstein Wrote:(12-23-2013 12:22 AM)Geoff Quickfall Wrote: No, you are not alone. In fact the beta testers complained and actually picked a colour scheme that existed on a prototype that was much higher in contrast. Saw one and it was perfect.
Even though the beta testers voted unanimously for the higher contrast, marketing has won out.
(...)
Cheers, Geoff
That's pretty annoying!
The keyboard color scheme of the HP Prime is not HP-like.
I prefer the colors of the HP 50g black and blue (see attached picture) and the HP 48g.
All the best,
Dominik
I like the colors of the blue 50g also. I also wouldn't mind if HP returned to the 48S color scheme, which had excellent contrast.
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - Eddie W. Shore - 01-14-2014 08:58 PM
(01-14-2014 07:33 PM)Jurgen Keller Wrote:Quote:Even though the beta testers voted unanimously for the higher contrast, marketing has won out.If in nearly each and every review and in many posts on relevant forums you can read that the color scheme is bad, is this good marketing? Not in my opinion. Is the person in charge still working for HP? I'm pretty sure. (Sorry for the last question, but the Orange is really really annoying for my eyes.)
What do you think of the green/purple scheme like on the 48G series?
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - Dominik Holenstein - 01-15-2014 09:52 AM
(01-14-2014 08:58 PM)Eddie W. Shore Wrote: What do you think of the green/purple scheme like on the 48G series?
It is very readable and a good color combination. Check the attached picture which shows both keyoard layouts (HP 48g and HP Prime).
Best,
Dominik
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - Jurgen Keller - 01-15-2014 07:31 PM
(01-14-2014 08:58 PM)Eddie W. Shore Wrote: What do you think of the green/purple scheme like on the 48G series?
Definitely better for my eyes. The orange/white combination just has not enough contrast for me, especially in the evenings under electrical lighting.
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - aurelio - 01-15-2014 09:39 PM
(01-14-2014 07:33 PM)Jurgen Keller Wrote:Quote:Even though the beta testers voted unanimously for the higher contrast, marketing has won out.If in nearly each and every review and in many posts on relevant forums you can read that the color scheme is bad, is this good marketing? Not in my opinion. Is the person in charge still working for HP? I'm pretty sure. (Sorry for the last question, but the Orange is really really annoying for my eyes.)
actually I don't think the orange colour so annoying for the eyes, but of course it's very annoying, I'm agree, an a white keyed keyboard
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - Boo - 01-17-2014 03:52 AM
In the light I typically like to use, I cannot even see there ARE orange labels on the white keys, particluarly the numeric keys. The contrast is so bad. Typically I use late evening single bedside lamp. An aftermarket key overlay set is coming, for sure.
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - Giancarlo - 01-19-2014 12:18 PM
Hello,
Any idea of how the original colors, then rejected by the marketing guys, look like? Any picture available?
btw, i didn't see any fixing on the PRIME for the overlays a la Hp41/48...
thanks
Giancarlo
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - Wes Loewer - 01-19-2014 12:56 PM
(01-19-2014 12:18 PM)Giancarlo Wrote: Any idea of how the original colors, then rejected by the marketing guys, look like? Any picture available?
Keep in mind that pictures can be deceiving. I can see the orange labels in pictures of the Prime and in the Prime emulator, but I have a very difficult time seeing the orange letters on the actual calculator keyboard, especially on the grey number keys. I often have to "count" over from a preceding white key.
-wes
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - Michael de Estrada - 01-19-2014 04:15 PM
(01-19-2014 12:56 PM)Wes Loewer Wrote:(01-19-2014 12:18 PM)Giancarlo Wrote: Any idea of how the original colors, then rejected by the marketing guys, look like? Any picture available?
Keep in mind that pictures can be deceiving. I can see the orange labels in pictures of the Prime and in the Prime emulator, but I have a very difficult time seeing the orange letters on the actual calculator keyboard, especially on the grey number keys. I often have to "count" over from a preceding white key.
-wes
Even on the Emulator, I find it impossible to differentiate between the curly brackets on the 8 key and the square brackets on the 5 key. And, can you even tell what the blue symbols are on the 9 key ?
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - Geoff Quickfall - 01-19-2014 07:35 PM
I will post the two colour schemes (contrast) as soon as I get home.
Cheers, Geoff
You will agree, the rejected scheme had no reason to be rejected.
Here we go!
The keyboard that was accepted by marketing, rejected by the beta testers and HHC attendees:
![[Image: acceptedkeyboard_zpsef47f772.jpg]](http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f96/geoff_q/acceptedkeyboard_zpsef47f772.jpg)
The keyboard that was rejected by marketing but unanimously accepted by the beta testers and HCC attendees:
![[Image: rejectedkeyboard_zps82728a7e.jpg]](http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f96/geoff_q/rejectedkeyboard_zps82728a7e.jpg)
I trust you can see the difference. Still a poor scheme, oh that it was closer to the classics, but still, in my humble opinion, far superior then the current keyboard.
And yes, you can see the entire suite of shifted codes had yet to added, but focus on the colours, the rejected version is much higher in contrast. Both these are working units and not just mock ups.
Geoff
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - aurelio - 01-19-2014 08:32 PM
(01-19-2014 07:35 PM)Geoff Quickfall Wrote: I will post the two colour schemes (contrast) as soon as I get home.completely agree Geoff, but let me know please whwre did you get the first batch (or previous batch) one?
Cheers, Geoff
You will agree, the rejected scheme had no reason to be rejected.
Here we go!
The keyboard that was accepted by marketing, rejected by the beta testers and HHC attendees:
The keyboard that was rejected by marketing but unanimously accepted by the beta testers and HCC attendees:
I trust you can see the difference. Still a poor scheme, oh that it was closer to the classics, but still, in my humble opinion, far superior then the current keyboard.
And yes, you can see the entire suite of shifted codes had yet to added, but focus on the colours, the rejected version is much higher in contrast. Both these are working units and not just mock ups.
Geoff
Are you one of those betatesters?
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - Geoff Quickfall - 01-19-2014 08:37 PM
Not a beta tester, it was the Nashville HHC in 2012 which I was unable to attend.
I took these pictures at HHC 2013, Patrice was sitting beside me and had these two versions. I bought my prime at the conference and it is a production version.
Cheers, Geoff
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - patrice - 01-19-2014 08:54 PM
Hi Geoff,
I also heard that orange/blue was chosen because it is a traditional HP color scheme.
The one that did it just forgot that the original color scheme was orange on black and blue on black.
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - Giancarlo - 01-19-2014 10:11 PM
Hello Geoff,
Thanks for the pictures. It is the first time i see a picture of these earlier units and i have to admit that the contrast is better.
Why don't we think about about a sticker overlay to stick on the alluminium shell of the keyboard? Not sure that stickers could last for long on each key so maybe an overlay sticker would do the job...
Thanks
Giancarlo
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - Bob Frazee - 01-20-2014 12:03 AM
To me, as I compare the 2 pictures, the production calculator lettering is smeared. Another analogy, the lettering on the production calculator(both blue and orange) is out of focus. My physical calculator looks this way(lettering is out of focus).
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - Geoff Quickfall - 01-20-2014 01:39 AM
Could be my iPhone camera skills :-)
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - Han - 01-20-2014 02:06 AM
What I can distinguish:
1. Production model has grey keys for most of the keyboard, with white on the numerical keys. The beta-preferred one has this reversed.
2. Production model uses bright blue, while the beta-preferred model uses a dark green.
If those are really the two color schemes to choose from, I'll be the first to honestly admit that they are both terrible. Why even bother with a [Shift] key color if it is so dark that it looks exactly like the black used for the main lettering? Even worse is the apps-related keys at the top are barely legible as far as shifted key labels go -- at first glance I thought they had left off the lettering of the shifted labels. I am curious to hear from someone who preferred the beta-test/attendees color scheme with respect to how they were even able to distinguish that dark green from black.
There's nothing wrong with blue and orange lettering, per se. The reason why the blue and orange worked back in the older pioneer series is because those two colors are bright -- and had heavy contrast against the dark brown plastic of the keys. The HP50G even has better readability (I still hate the black letters on grey menu keys, though) than the Prime (both versions pictured above) because it used a dark color for the keys, and bright colors for the lettering. Grey is a terrible color for key background colors because it's too "middle-ground" so that both dark and bright colors do not have good contrast against grey. Even worse is the fact that the Prime uses both black and (close to) white keys for the background. So a color such as the blue might show up very well against black (e.g. the app related keys) does not against white (the rest of the keyboard).
As swapping the grey and white keys -- sorry but neither configuration does anything for me.
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - Joe Horn - 01-20-2014 10:07 AM
(01-20-2014 02:06 AM)Han Wrote: What I can distinguish:
1. Production model has grey keys for most of the keyboard, with white on the numerical keys. The beta-preferred one has this reversed.
True, but both colors are darker on the production model. The white became more of an ivory color, and the gray became much darker than the original gray. IMHO, both were unfortunate decisions.
Quote:2. Production model uses bright blue, while the beta-preferred model uses a dark green.
That green is actually a kind of blue-green. The color probably has a name, but I'm a male, so I don't know what it is. ;-)
Another change you can see in Geoff's photos above: the cursor wheel was silver on the early beta units, and black later. IMHO, the current black wheel is MUCH better, both aesthetically and functionally.
Also, the brushed aluminum around the keys became darker. It's much better now. That's not as easy to see in Geoff's photos.
Quote:... Even worse is the apps-related keys at the top are barely legible as far as shifted key labels go -- at first glance I thought they had left off the lettering of the shifted labels. I am curious to hear from someone who preferred the beta-test/attendees color scheme with respect to how they were even able to distinguish that dark green from black.
You're right: those were almost invisible. I held the calculator at an angle to reflect light off the paint just to read them. Of course, after a few weeks of steady use, I had them memorized so it didn't matter. The beta testers knew that it didn't really matter, since the color scheme was going to change anyway.
Since the original beta units didn't have all the shifted keys printed, I made stickers to put in their place, copied from the keys on the original HP digital mockup:
![[Image: stickers.jpg]](http://holyjoe.net/hp/stickers.jpg)
RE: Color Blindness and HP Prime keys color choice - Han - 01-20-2014 02:29 PM
Thank you for the informative post, Joe. After having read your post, I can more clearly see the differences.
But as far as functional colors go, they really don't have to do much to the current keyboard to make it functional. Just make all the keys black (dark) with white text. Then the orange and blue will show very clearly. I don't know if this will clash with the aluminum, but at least it will make the keys legible. I am certainly curious if there are plans on a second set of colors like they did with the HP50G. I just hope it isn't another flop (colorwise) as it was (for me) with the blue HP50G.