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+--- Thread: Comparing 15c ans 35s (/thread-3080.html)
Comparing 15c ans 35s - Tugdual - 02-13-2015 10:08 PM
Tonight I was comparing keyboards of 15c and 35s and came to the conclusion they were almost identical. OK now the 15c is much more complete regarding complex numbers and matrices (but the 35s has rudimentary complex and 2x2 or 3x3 matrices) but other than that I find that they compare well.
So, while I initially thought the 35s would be inferior I revised my opinion and even start wondering if they don't play in the same league. What do you think?
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - RMollov - 02-13-2015 11:25 PM
(02-13-2015 10:08 PM)Tugdual Wrote: Tonight I was comparing keyboards of 15c and 35s and came to the conclusion they were almost identical. OK now the 15c is much more complete regarding complex numbers and matrices (but the 35s has rudimentary complex and 2x2 or 3x3 matrices) but other than that I find that they compare well.
So, while I initially thought the 35s would be inferior I revised my opinion and even start wondering if they don't play in the same league. What do you think?
I have them both on my desk and reach for the 35s 9 out of 10 times I need to use calculator.
The two line display, basic unit conversion and equation solver are the winners for me. I have no use of complex numbers.
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - Thomas Radtke - 02-14-2015 10:16 AM
Depends on what one needs. None of them makes the other one obsolete.
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - Jlouis - 02-14-2015 12:11 PM
15c is more robust, has a better keyboard and the landscape format and size are better, IMHO. The 33s is faster, 2 line display and some good functions handy on the keyboard.
I prefer the 15c.
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - Tugdual - 02-14-2015 01:14 PM
(02-14-2015 12:11 PM)Jlouis Wrote: 15c is more robust, has a better keyboard and the landscape format and size are better, IMHO. The 33s is faster, 2 line display and some good functions handy on the keyboard.Hi JLouis, did you mean 35s or 33s?
I prefer the 15c.
FYI the 15C LE is 10x faster than 35s, you'd love it.
I agree with your comment on form factor, I find the 35s too large and thick and the keyboard is slightly uneasy compared to the 15C (even the LE).
What I also like on the 35s is direct unit conversion as well as HEX and BIN and Logic functions (though bit shift is missing <sad face> ). I wish I had a 16C.
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - Jlouis - 02-14-2015 01:51 PM
(02-14-2015 01:14 PM)Tugdual Wrote:(02-14-2015 12:11 PM)Jlouis Wrote: 15c is more robust, has a better keyboard and the landscape format and size are better, IMHO. The 33s is faster, 2 line display and some good functions handy on the keyboard.Hi JLouis, did you mean 35s or 33s?
I prefer the 15c.
FYI the 15C LE is 10x faster than 35s, you'd love it.
I agree with your comment on form factor, I find the 35s too large and thick and the keyboard is slightly uneasy compared to the 15C (even the LE).
What I also like on the 35s is direct unit conversion as well as HEX and BIN and Logic functions (though bit shift is missing <sad face> ). I wish I had a 16C.
Sorry, it was a typo, as the OP wrote 35s and so for 15c, not 15cLE.
I agree the unit conversion in the 35s and 33s as well are very handy.
I missed the oprtunity when the 15cLE was launched, and now prices went to the sky, so I'm ok with my old made in Brazil from 1983, still working 100%, but already showing some scars from heavy battles.
Edit: I have the 35s and the 33s as well. I like them both, but the 15c is in another league.
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - Jeff_Kearns - 02-14-2015 03:26 PM
(02-14-2015 12:11 PM)Jlouis Wrote: 15c is more robust, has a better keyboard and the landscape format and size are better, IMHO. The 33s is faster, 2 line display and some good functions handy on the keyboard.
I prefer the 15c.
This discussion comes up every once in a while and it is nice to see the new forum addressing these questions. An almost identical thread was started in 2003 concerning the 15C vs the 32sii, and one of the contributors - Valentin Albillo, wrote the following:
"Here are a few reasons why the HP-15C is better than the HP32S/SII:
> smaller, the most pocketable of all bar none.
> much more rugged and solidly built, will stand a lot of abuse without flinching, wears very little with age even in the worst environments. So far, 20 years up and counting ...
> clearer, very contrasty, segmented display, ideal for optimum visibility and legibility of numbers and numeric computations, like it should for a pure *calculator*.
> batteries last for *decades*, even under daily use.
> the 32S/SII usually gathers a lot of dust under the display, which is very annoying and extremely difficult to remove, if at all. The 15C doesn't, even if using it in extremely dusty places (e.g.: a year at the Sahara desert)
> *much* better keyboard, with classic molded keys, Helvetica font lettering, [f] and [g] keys, large ENTER key, ..., never failing to register a key or provide tactile feedback.
> (this does not apply to the 35S) *much* larger RAM, besides most instructions take 1 byte. The 32S is absolutely *starved* for RAM, and instructions take 1.5 or more bytes, so it uses it fast. For instance, the number 123 in a program takes just 3 bytes on the 15C, 9.5 bytes on the 32S !! This means that any given amount of RAM (say 200 bytes) will store much more instructions in the HP-15C than it does on the 32S/SII, so further compunding the problem.
> complete matrix functionality, including multiple matrices in memory, perfectly integrated with RPN: you can have matrices on the stack, on registers, do all kind of arithmetic functions with them, solve systems of linear equations with a single instruction, special functions to deal with complex matrices, etc, etc.
> complete complex number functionality, perfectly integrated with RPN: *all* standard functions work with complex numbers, including hyperbolics and inverse hyperbolics, 5-level parallel RPN stack, including LAST X, etc.
> the 15C can have up to 67 registers available for data. The 32S can have only 26 at most.
> the 15C has all 12 comparison tests, the 32S doesn't (he was wrong about this, certainly as far as the 32sii and 35s are concerned). Many other instructions have test capabilities in programs as well, such as SOLVE, INTEGRATE, and a number of matrix operations.
> the 15C does have GTO (i) and GSB (i), for indirect branching, plus if the I register contains a negative number, it will perform rapid branching to *any* program *step*, no label needed. The 32S/SII has no such capabilities at all, which further cripples programming.
> The Hp-15C oozes quality. Every feature, from the extremely well-thought keyboard layout, to the microcode implementation of all its many functions, has been designed with utmost care, no compromises. For instance, the HP-15C overloads operators to maximize every key's functionality. Take the [+] key, for example; would you believe it has *seven* different functionalities ? Namely:
1. to add up two real values
2. to add up two complex values
3. to add up two matrices
4. to add up some scalar to all elements of a matrix
5. to directly add up a value in the display to a register (STO+)
6. to directly add the value of a register to a number in the display (RCL+)
7. to specify a certain diagnostic test ([ON]-[+])
That's just the tip of the quality iceberg. The numerical algorithms are the best, most accurate in the world. The USER modes for entering/displaying matrix elements, with autoincrement, do-if-true capability, will even preview the name of the matrix and indexes of the affected element as long as the relevant key is kept pressed, performing the operation upon release or nulling it out upon timeout, etc, etc.
On the other hand, the HP32S/32SII (and by extension, the 35S) is a machine full of compromises, with some good features intermixed with other half-baked ones or even frankly crippled. It's not an all-round product, at all. Just look at the overloaded [+] key example above: to add two complex numbers on the 32S, you must use an ad-hoc function for the task, CMPLEX +, as the obvious choice, the [+] key on its own, won't do it.
The bottom line: the HP-15C is probably the best pure calculator ever built, period, and owning one is both classy and expensive. The 32S (or 35S), though desirable, can't come up even close to that privileged status. It's just a fine but ultimately seriously flawed calculator. Comparing it to the 15C is kind of preposterous, the 42S is more like it."
The best way I have found to search the old forum archives is to google the key words followed by site:hpmuseum.org. In this case 15c vs 32sii
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - Tugdual - 02-14-2015 03:57 PM
Thanks JLouis, by using the same Google method I pulled another interesting reading http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv020.cgi?read=192663
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - MarkHaysHarris777 - 02-14-2015 05:38 PM
If ever I might spend hundreds of $$$ dollars for an antique calculator, it would have to be the 15C, or the 42s, but for different reasons. I believe the 42s is arguably the finest calculator ever built, IMHO; but I like the 15C landscape (the reason I love RealCalc for my Droid). RealCalc has the 15C beat because it can be configured for multiple line display (I configure mine for three); also it can be configured to use an RPL stack (very convenient).
Comparing the 15C and the 35s is not fair (in fact its not possible); although, its also not fair to classify the 35s as an ultimately 'seriously flawed calculator'. The 35s is my go-to unit for everyday work & ~play; I have been grabbing that unit even over my Droid these days... its a very comfortable well organized easily differentiated machine with a very nice layout, elegant display, comfortable form factor (for my large hands) and very nice construction quality and curb appeal.
The serious disadvantage for the 15C is the one line display (same disadvantage for the wp34s). The advantage of the 35s is its large memory, flexibility (nice memory management), fully merged programming | equations, and conversions right on the front panel. Did I mention I love the display?
The 35s has some quirks, but I would not EVEN label it 'flawed,' nor 'buggy'. It is one of the finest RPN calculators I have ever used (I go back to the HP35) and its going to get used around my home and office for many years to come (I purchased two of them to help ensure that one of them makes it to the end of my bucket list); having said that, I (like many of you), was disappointed that HP outsourced the product to Kinpo and released it without adequate product testing (real community pressure). The disappointment does not prevent me from appreciating it for the elegance it has, nor does my disappointment prevent me from praising its qualities (and it is loaded with those!).
The 15C is a nostalgic relic of a by-gone era, an elegant curiosity and wonder like my grandpa's Comptometer. I love that Comptometer, but I don't use it, and I certainly don't want Felt and Tarrant Mfg of Chicago to rise from the dead and reintroduce it!
If possible (but not for hundreds) I would like to add a 15C or 42s to my collection of Comptometer-like devices (I'd like to find a Wang 700 too). But this is the 21st century. So for me, the 35s and 34s are my go-to units, while RealCalc and free42 are my virtual units of choice.
Cheers,
marcus
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - Mark Hardman - 02-14-2015 05:49 PM
(02-14-2015 05:38 PM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote: The 15C is a nostalgic relic of a by-gone era, an elegant curiosity and wonder like my grandpa's Comptometer.
In my near two decades of involvement with The Community, this is possibly the most asinine statement that I have EVER read on this forum.
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - rprosperi - 02-14-2015 06:00 PM
(02-14-2015 05:49 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:(02-14-2015 05:38 PM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote: The 15C is a nostalgic relic of a by-gone era, an elegant curiosity and wonder like my grandpa's Comptometer.
In my near two decades of involvement with The Community, this is possibly the most asinine statement that I have EVER read on this forum.
Don't hold back Mark, tell us how you really feel.
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - Jlouis - 02-14-2015 06:11 PM
(02-14-2015 05:49 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:(02-14-2015 05:38 PM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote: The 15C is a nostalgic relic of a by-gone era, an elegant curiosity and wonder like my grandpa's Comptometer.
In my near two decades of involvement with The Community, this is possibly the most asinine statement that I have EVER read on this forum.
I wouldn't say that, Mark, but besides I like Marcus post and mostly agree with him, I would not agree that the 15c is a relic like the comptometer. It is still a very powerfull and usefull calculator.
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - Mark Hardman - 02-14-2015 06:15 PM
(02-14-2015 06:00 PM)rprosperi Wrote: Don't hold back Mark, tell us how you really feel.
I guess I shouldn't post before getting my morning caffeine.
I should have pointed out that this is only my opinion. I would welcome submissions from past postings that are more asinine.
I have considerable investments in money, time and programming on the HP-15C. To have such a beautiful, accurate, near bug-free calculator denigrated in this way makes my blood boil.
I would not trust the HP35S to balance my checkbook.
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - MarkHaysHarris777 - 02-14-2015 06:21 PM
(02-14-2015 05:49 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:(02-14-2015 05:38 PM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote: The 15C is a nostalgic relic of a by-gone era, an elegant curiosity and wonder like my grandpa's Comptometer.
In my near two decades of involvement with The Community, this is possibly the most asinine statement that I have EVER read on this forum.
~What-? ... let's see the 15C was introduced in 1982! The first space shuttle flight was in 1981. In 1982 Ronald Reagan was in his 2nd year of his first term as President of the United States. The IBM PC was one year old. The iron curtain was still UP. I was still a field engineer with IBM and EVERYONE used Selectric typewriters! The Chernobyl accident had not occurred (1986).
The 15C is 33 years old. Dude, what do you think words like 'nostalgic,' 'by-gone era,' and 'relic' mean?
I know, I feel your pain... because those words apply to some of 'us' too.
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - MarkHaysHarris777 - 02-14-2015 06:23 PM
(02-14-2015 06:15 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote: I would not trust the HP35S to balance my checkbook.
Now, that's an asinine statement. The 35s adds and subtracts flawlessly in beautiful 10 key style, with no mistakes in an elegant RPN mode that is (frankly and most emphatically) reliable.
Cheers,
marcus
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - Jlouis - 02-14-2015 06:30 PM
If I weren't working, I would seat confortably at my couch with a good beer and watch what will happen in this thread.
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - Mark Hardman - 02-14-2015 06:35 PM
(02-14-2015 06:21 PM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote: Dude, what do you think words like 'nostalgic,' 'by-gone era,' and 'relic' mean?
As used, the word "relic" is pejorative. In my opinion you are that one with comprehension problems.
(02-14-2015 06:21 PM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote: I know, I feel your pain... because those words apply to some of 'us' too.
You do not know me. Please do not assume that I feel any "pain". To this point I was heartily enjoying my little hobby.
If you feel that the words "nostalgic" or "relic" applies to you personally then you have my pity. Please do not include me as part of your "some of 'us' too."
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - Mark Hardman - 02-14-2015 06:46 PM
(02-14-2015 06:23 PM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote:(02-14-2015 06:15 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote: I would not trust the HP35S to balance my checkbook.
Now, that's an asinine statement. The 35s adds and subtracts flawlessly in beautiful 10 key style, with no mistakes in an elegant RPN mode that is (frankly and most emphatically) reliable.
Cheers,
marcus
At one time I was as blindly confident of the 35s as you are. I had about 30 hours of effort into converting and keying my basic utilities into the new machine. In testing some of my work I encountered the dreaded bug 15 lock up and subsequent complete loss of memory. Said 35s made a lovely arc from my hand to the trash can.
But please, continue the 35s apologetics. Its your time to be used as you like.
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - Steve Simpkin - 02-14-2015 06:46 PM
I can only imagine the reaction of an average person to the passion shown by individuals here for a particular calculator model. A calculator? Really? I know the looks me family give me when I stare lovingly at my HP-25 whenever I fire it up just to enjoy its feel and operation.
That said, you are all very mistaken. My HP-48SX is the finest calculator ever produced
RE: Comparing 15c ans 35s - Jlouis - 02-14-2015 07:02 PM
[quote='Steve Simpkin' pid='27492'
That said, you are all very mistaken. My HP-48SX is the finest calculator ever produced:)
[/quote]
Lol...No, wait a minute, it's 48GX!!