• A single press and release of the Alpha key will activate/exit Alpha Mode (as in current single alpha-lock feature).
• When in D, P or A modes, pressing and holding Alpha temporarily switches to Alpha Mode until the Alpha key is released. If no other key is pressed when Alpha is released, then Alpha works as if it was pressed and released, switching to Alpha mode until pressed again.
• In temporary Alpha mode (while Alpha is being held), all keys will behave as if Alpha mode was active. This is used to quickly enter text when in other mode, without permanently switching to Alpha Mode back and forth (this provides functionality equivalent to single alpha press when double alpha locks is active).
• When the Alpha Mode is activated, the cursor can be in any of the following modes: L = The keys will enter lowercase characters, C = The keys will enter uppercase characters, G = The keys will enter greek characters, g = The keys will enter lowercase greek letters. Initially, Alpha mode will enter L or C mode (whichever was used last).
• Long-Pressing and releasing the Alpha key will toggle between L and C modes (or between G and g) (this is new).
• Pressing and holding Alpha with other keys will temporarily toggle L/C (G/g) mode until released (this basically moves the left-shift functionality to the Alpha key) for the letter keys, may have other uses for other keys, for example for the numbers could insert subscript numbers, like A₁.
• Pressing and holding Alpha, while pressing SPC will toggle between the latin (L or C modes) and greek (G or g modes) alphabets.
• Left-Shift in Alpha mode is now free for other uses. For example to use the symbols that are printed on the keyboard like ≠, ≤ and ≥ (which currently cannot be accessed without leaving Alpha mode).
  

(04-30-2015 04:42 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  [*]When the Alpha Mode is activated, the cursor can be in any of the following modes: L = The keys will enter lowercase characters, C = The keys will enter uppercase characters, G = The keys will enter greek characters, g = The keys will enter lowercase greek letters. Initially, Alpha mode will enter L or C mode (whichever was used last).

Quote:[*]Pressing and holding Alpha with other keys will temporarily toggle L/C (G/g) mode until released (this basically moves the left-shift functionality to the Alpha key) for the letter keys, may have other uses for other keys, for example for the numbers could insert subscript numbers, like A₁

(04-30-2015 11:28 PM)Helix Wrote:  Stupid question: why C, and not U?

(04-30-2015 11:28 PM)Helix Wrote:  

Quote:[*]Pressing and holding Alpha with other keys will temporarily toggle L/C (G/g) mode until released (this basically moves the left-shift functionality to the Alpha key) for the letter keys, may have other uses for other keys, for example for the numbers could insert subscript numbers, like A₁

I don't understand this sentence (English is not my mother tongue). Could you reword it?

(04-30-2015 11:28 PM)Helix Wrote:  For the subscripts, I was thinking about a long press on the final key. For example, pressing the 1 key a second or so, would change the standard character to the subscript position. I can even imagine that continuing pressing that key would cycle through the various characters: standard – subscript –superscript – standard … and so on, until the key is released at the desired status.

(This feature could also be used elsewhere, to choose among several actions, provided that there is a visible change in the display, or a changing indicator is displayed. I'm thinking about the way digital watches work with only a few buttons, and a systematic usage of the long press to do the various choices and adjustments.)

(04-30-2015 04:42 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  The blinking cursor in newRPL UI will be a letter. This way it will give back information to the user about the status of the command line/editor.

(05-01-2015 03:00 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  I think a demo or test drive when the betas are ready would be essential to decide how intuitive vs. distracting this is. I look forward to driving this and hope it is as useful as it sounds.

(04-30-2015 04:42 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  The blinking cursor in newRPL UI will be a letter.

(05-01-2015 02:09 AM)Claudio L. Wrote:  

(04-30-2015 11:28 PM)Helix Wrote:  

(04-30-2015 04:42 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  •Pressing and holding Alpha with other keys will temporarily toggle L/C (G/g) mode until released (this basically moves the left-shift functionality to the Alpha key) for the letter keys, may have other uses for other keys, for example for the numbers could insert subscript numbers, like A₁.

I don't understand this sentence (English is not my mother tongue). Could you reword it?

Neither is mine, let me try that again.
The idea is that if you are let's say in programming mode, and you want to type the letter T for a variable name, instead of pressing Alpha to switch to alpha mode, then T, then Alpha again to be back in programming mode, you press and hold Alpha, then press T.
When you release both keys you are back in programming mode. If you want to type MYVAR while in programming mode, just keep Alpha pressed while you press M, then Y, etc... and when you release alpha, you are back in programming mode. It's harder to explain than it is to do it.

(05-01-2015 02:09 AM)Claudio L. Wrote:  For the numbers I'm not sure it would work well, because there's a conflict with the repeat feature on the keyboard. When you press and hold the number 1 you expect 11111111111111111111111..., rather than cycling sub/super/normal, but perhaps in some shifted plane it could work.

(05-03-2015 09:40 PM)Sukiari Wrote:  I don't like this idea. I think this is a perfect thing to put on the status line, not in the prompt itself. I think it could be distracting - if you move the cursor over another character, it will blink between the two?

(05-04-2015 05:02 AM)HrastProgrammer Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 09:40 PM)Sukiari Wrote:  I don't like this idea. I think this is a perfect thing to put on the status line, not in the prompt itself. I think it could be distracting - if you move the cursor over another character, it will blink between the two?

Yes, this wouldn't be very nice. On Spectrum and ZX81 it worked because they are always in insert mode and the cursor is always positioned between two consecutive characters.

(05-04-2015 05:02 AM)HrastProgrammer Wrote:  I actually like the idea of "self-describing" cursor because you don't have to have a status line so you can use the full display for editor. In my HRAST BASIC I have a solid cursor when the editor is in insert mode and a transparent cursor (blinking between a character and inverse-character) if it is in overwrite mode. Unfortunately, this doesn't cover uppercase/lowercase modes but I decided not to add a status line because full display for the editor was much more important to me.

(05-01-2015 08:10 PM)Helix Wrote:  When I press and hold the number 1, I don't expect 11111111111, because:
- the hp50g doesn't work like that (and probably any other calculator)
- the same thing applies to letters
- I don't see the usefulness of this feature. If by accident I have to enter such a number, I must count the number of digits, so a keystroke for each is the right solution
- the subscripts (and superscripts?) should be accessible only in alpha mode

(05-01-2015 03:00 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  A letter comprising the blinking cursor sounds like it could be distracting. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea; self-documenting UI components are intuitive and useful (assuming well thought-out, as this seems to be) however you're messing with something very fundamental. Is this UI mode optional?

I think a demo or test drive when the betas are ready would be essential to decide how intuitive vs. distracting this is. I look forward to driving this and hope it is as useful as it sounds.

• Autorepeat enabled only for cursors, backspace/Delete, SPC and perhaps Enter (any others?)
• Long pressing a key (long press time is user configurable), begins cycling among certain choices until the key is released.
• The list of choices should be user-configurable (not sure how yet, but doesn't matter).
• When the first long press event happens, the choice should be displayed in the status area (or maybe a pop-up window?).
• The long-press event auto repeats, cycling between the options at a constant pace.
• The choice that was active at the time the key is released becomes active.
• Without releasing the key, pressing the cursors (left/right or up/down?), would allow to quickly select the next/previous choice without waiting for the repeat time.
  

(05-04-2015 02:01 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  Here's a new proposal, in this case for Long-press, based on Helix's idea:

• Autorepeat enabled only for cursors, backspace/Delete, SPC and perhaps Enter (any others?)
• Long pressing a key (long press time is user configurable), begins cycling among certain choices until the key is released.
• The list of choices should be user-configurable (not sure how yet, but doesn't matter).
• When the first long press event happens, the choice should be displayed in the status area (or maybe a pop-up window?).
• The long-press event auto repeats, cycling between the options at a constant pace.
• The choice that was active at the time the key is released becomes active.
• Without releasing the key, pressing the cursors (left/right or up/down?), would allow to quickly select the next/previous choice without waiting for the repeat time.
  

How does this one sound?

(05-04-2015 02:01 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  [*] The list of choices should be user-configurable (not sure how yet, but doesn't matter).

(05-04-2015 01:37 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  And thinking about it, it could have many uses. For example, in Alpha mode, you could press and hold the letter S, and it could cycle between S, SIN, ASIN, and Σ (all the symbols printed on the keyboard), in case you don't like to use Shifts.
This could eliminate the need for a "Greek" mode, making all greek letters available as one cycling option.

(05-05-2015 06:49 PM)Sukiari Wrote:  I think that user-configurability is the key here. I for one would use a 'classic mode' that emulates exactly the cursor and entry style of my 48g / 50g.

(05-05-2015 09:59 PM)Helix Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 02:01 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  [*] The list of choices should be user-configurable (not sure how yet, but doesn't matter).

It's the most important point. Depending on the proposed choices, this feature can be more or less useful. In your description, I don't know if there is a connection with the previous discussion for the alpha key, or if each key will be configurable differently, like key assignments.

• Custom keyboard definitions will be a single list of "key overrides". The format of the list is not well defined yet, but it will include the key code and shift plane, as well as a context number (will describe this next), and the action, which is typically a program or a string (with this "choices" new feature, I guess it will have to take lists too).
• The context number is an arbitrary number that describes where the user input is. For instance, #1 is the text editor, #2 is the stack, #3 could be the equation writer, etc. User programs will be able to define arbitrary context numbers for areas of their forms. This number does nothing, but key definitions only apply when the context number matches (Context #0 means a key definition applies to all contexts).
• There will NOT be a "user" keyboard mode. User keys are active 100% of the time. There will be a "safe" key combination that will disable custom definitions in case you mess up for example the Enter definition and your calc becomes unusable.
• Key definition lists will be stored like a variable, and searched for in the current dir, and then in upper directories same as any variable. The name will be a special name (I'm thinking ".KeyDef" or similar, or perhaps the first character should be a rare symbol so it doesn't get mixed with user variables).
• When the system looks for a key, the first match found is executed, and the search ends. This allows per-directory keyboard overrides.
• Key definition lists need ONLY contain overrides, if a key is not defined in any lists, its default system action will take place.
  

(05-05-2015 09:59 PM)Helix Wrote:  Maybe we are too conservative

(05-06-2015 01:05 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  Perhaps I need to explain the intent with keyboard configurability. Here are some key points (some are not implemented yet, and subject to change). I hope this doesn't get too technical, but basically it makes keyboard MUCH more configurable than you ever thought:

(05-06-2015 01:05 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  This community is averse to change, that is nothing new (the fact we are in a forum with the word "museum" in it should give a hint). But it's also relatively open to change once they can test it and get used to it. For instance most people hated the Prime at the beginning, but now you can see the same people in the Prime forums and they seem very happy with it.
So I expect some resistance to the new UI, but I think over time it will work. I use a 50g for daily work, if the new interface doesn't help me be more productive then it's not good and we'll be back at the original.
The proposed changes are merely incremental, nothing revolutionary here, picking the best features from UI's I've used in the past and trying to put it all together.
Time will tell.

(04-30-2015 04:42 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  

• When the Alpha Mode is activated, the cursor can be in any of the following modes: L = The keys will enter lowercase characters, C = The keys will enter uppercase characters, G = The keys will enter greek characters, g = The keys will enter lowercase greek letters. Initially, Alpha mode will enter L or C mode (whichever was used last).
  
  

(10-11-2015 10:41 PM)Helix Wrote:  I'm reactivating this thread to post my thoughts about the alpha mode in the current newRPL firmware.
I'm not sure it's an improvement compared to the 50g. I would say it's different, but not better. In fact, I still don't like the fact that the Alpha key activates the last used mode (capital or lower case letters). I'd prefer by far capital letters at the beginning.

(10-11-2015 10:41 PM)Helix Wrote:  In program or algebraic modes, is there a need to switch to the direct mode? I think it would be preferable here that the right shift ENTRY just toggles between algebraic and program modes, like in the 50g.

(10-11-2015 10:41 PM)Helix Wrote:  I've been thinking about Greek letters too. The proposal in the first post seems too complex for me.
The suggestion with the long press and cycling procedure as described above could be interesting. Another more conventional solution would be to simply use the left shift and right shift keys to enter lower case and capital Greek letters. This would be independent of the current alpha mode (capital or lower case letters).These characters are mainly used in mathematics and physics (apart from Greek users…), where we generally need only one character at once, and a direct access is important here, avoiding a mess of key presses.

The same is valid for underscripts and superscripts, which should be independent of the current alpha mode. So for example, in any alpha mode:
* pressing and holding the left shift key, and then pressing 0..9 would enter a subscript
* pressing and holding the right shift key, and pressing 0..9 would enter a superscript
I'm not sure that making the left shift key available for new uses is very interesting.