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Vocabulary lesson from eBay - rprosperi - 11-30-2015 01:36 AM
While looking at an item on eBay, I ran across the word "verdigris", which was new to me; I initially assumed it was a typo.
According to Dictionary.com:
verdigris: a green or bluish patina formed on copper, brass, or bronze surfaces exposed to the atmosphere for long periods of time, consisting principally of basic copper sulfate.
So, its clear this word is relevant in the life of most of us, at least most collectors. We've all spent much time cleaning up verdigris from battery spills and age.
I presume this word comes from French (I recognize "verd" - green) - can any French-speaking folks here confirm (or deny) this guess?
Hey, it's a holiday weekend....
RE: Vocabulary lesson from eBay - Didier Lachieze - 11-30-2015 02:19 AM
(11-30-2015 01:36 AM)rprosperi Wrote: I presume this word comes from French (I recognize "verd" - green) - can any French-speaking folks here confirm (or deny) this guess?
In French we say "vert-de-gris", "vert" is green and "gris" is grey but what is interesting is that originally it was "vert-de-Grèce" which morphed phonetically into "vert-de-gris". "Grèce" is the country (Greece) and it's related to the copper (cuivre in French) whose name comes from Chyprus from where the Romans where getting it.
RE: Vocabulary lesson from eBay - Gerson W. Barbosa - 11-30-2015 02:56 AM
Thank you very much for your contribution to those of us who collect words
(11-30-2015 01:36 AM)rprosperi Wrote: I presume this word comes from French (I recognize "verd" - green) - can any French-speaking folks here confirm (or deny) this guess?
As Didier Lachieze has already confirmed, your presumption is correct:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=verdigris&searchmode=none
The modern French word for green is vert (verte for feminine; respective plural forms verts, vertes).
Gerson.
RE: Vocabulary lesson from eBay - d b - 11-30-2015 05:07 AM
From the very useful "Online Etymology Dictionary"
verdigris (n.) Look up verdigris at Dictionary.com
c. 1300, vertegrez, from Old French verte grez (13c.), verte de Grece (late 12c.), literally "green of Greece," from obsolete French verd, from Latin viridis (see verdure). The reason for it being called that is not known. In other languages, "green of Spain" (German grünspan, Danish spanskgrönt, Dutch spaansch-groen), from Medieval Latin viride Hispanum. Current spelling in English is from 1789. In chemistry, confined to a basic copper acetate; popularly applied to the green encrustation on copper or brass exposed to the air.
RE: Vocabulary lesson from eBay - walter b - 11-30-2015 06:39 AM
A liitle addition:
Quote:Der lateinische Name cuprum ist abgeleitet von aes cyprium „Erz von der Insel Zypern“, auf der im Altertum Kupfer gewonnen wurde.
(Latin cuprum is derived from aes cyprium meaning 'metal of Cyprus'.) The Latin words themselves were derived from Greek 'χάλκος κύπριος' meaning the same. So the origin is well known, whatever an English online etymology tells.
d:-)
RE: Vocabulary lesson from eBay - rprosperi - 11-30-2015 03:33 PM
Thanks to all for the replies and background.
Of course I could have looked this up, but as the above shows well, there is always far more to it than a simple explanation from dictionary.com.
Also I mixed up my memories; French is vert and Spanish is verd. The first, I recall from some dialog I had to memorize in French-1 in high school about green beans, and the latter from ordering some of my favorite Mexican food. Hmmm.... a common theme of food in there...
RE: Vocabulary lesson from eBay - Marcus von Cube - 11-30-2015 06:49 PM
Just for completeness, there is the German word "Grünspan", denoting the same.
RE: Vocabulary lesson from eBay - Massimo Gnerucci - 11-30-2015 07:18 PM
(11-30-2015 06:49 PM)Marcus von Cube Wrote: Just for completeness, there is the German word "Grünspan", denoting the same.
And verderame in italian (verde=green, rame=copper).
RE: Vocabulary lesson from eBay - Alberto Candel - 11-30-2015 10:40 PM
Is this the same as patina? (English or Spanish)
RE: Vocabulary lesson from eBay - rprosperi - 11-30-2015 11:14 PM
(11-30-2015 10:40 PM)Alberto Candel Wrote: Is this the same as patina? (English or Spanish)
Conceptually, yes, though I believe patina applies to any aged "gunk" on the surface of some item, which could be composed of many materials, whereas verdigris applies strictly to corrosion on copper, brass and bronze.
When my Dad visited Egypt during WWII (on the way to India, flying "The Hump") he said locals on the street would sell little trinkets ('ancient' pieces of metal, etc.) that looked genuinely ancient, due to the greenish patina on them. Turned out the got that way by being passed through local geese (or whatever the local annoying birds are). Seems the natural, ah... patina, added a false look of realism.
RE: Vocabulary lesson from eBay - Alberto Candel - 11-30-2015 11:30 PM
(11-30-2015 11:14 PM)rprosperi Wrote:(11-30-2015 10:40 PM)Alberto Candel Wrote: Is this the same as patina? (English or Spanish)
Conceptually, yes, though I believe patina applies to any aged "gunk" on the surface of some item, which could be composed of many materials, whereas verdigris applies strictly to corrosion on copper, brass and bronze.
When my Dad visited Egypt during WWII (on the way to India, flying "The Hump") he said locals on the street would sell little trinkets ('ancient' pieces of metal, etc.) that looked genuinely ancient, due to the greenish patina on them. Turned out the got that way by being passed through local geese (or whatever the local annoying birds are). Seems the natural, ah... patina, added a false look of realism.
Thank you! For whatever is worth, I now remember that the Spanish word for verdigris is cardenillo. (Verdigris is not in the RAE dictionary.)