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Panamatik new ACT: difference between program meomory and library? - Harald - 01-11-2016 02:45 PM
Now that I started playing with my new HP67E, I already came up with a question:
What is the difference between the program memory and the program library?
On page 73 of the ACT Manual (V1.06) I found this:
![[Image: zwischenablage01fgphj.jpg]](http://abload.de/img/zwischenablage01fgphj.jpg)
And on page 83 the key sequneces:
![[Image: zwischenablage0268oda.jpg]](http://abload.de/img/zwischenablage0268oda.jpg)
So, the way I would understand this is:
a) The 67 can only store 10 programs, all of them in program memory.
b) The others can store more, 10 in program memory, the rest in the program library. This makes sense as the 67 programs are much larger.
But I still don't understand the difference between program memory and library. I was wondering if it is just the way they are accsessed. But that doesn't make sense, as the 67 has key sequneces to access both memory and library.
I sent a propram collection via programing cable and it ended up in program memory. Works very nicely by the way!
Cheers,
Harald
RE: Panamatik new ACT: difference between program meomory and library? - Geoff Quickfall - 01-12-2016 02:06 AM
There are two memory blocks on the 67e. So twenty one programs can be stored. Library versus program memory differentiates the two separate areas for storing programs.
The first set are 0-9 (ten) accessed or stored with:
f f RCL 0 thru 9
f f STO 0 thru 9
The second set 00 thru 10 (eleven) accessed or stored with:
f f RCL . 0 thru 9
f f STO . 0 thru 9
The difference is the . (Decimal).
Ex 1)
Program 1 to be stored in program memory 0:
In program mode with program entered:
f f STO 0 (will result in the program being stored in memory 0)
f f RCL 0 ( will result in the program being copied from memory 0 to program memory for use.)
--------------------------------
Ex 2)
Program 2 to be stored in program memory 00
In program mode with program entered:
f f STO . 0 0 (will result in the program being stored in memory 00.)
f f RCL . 0 0 ( will result in the program being copied from memory 00 to program memory for use.)
The use of the . (Period) determine which memory set 0 thru 9 or 00 thru 10
That's twenty one times 224 line of available programming.
Geoff
Of course Bernhard will correct me as I have not created the 67E yet since all my 67s work. I have converted a 25 to a 67IR. Now that is fun also.
RE: Panamatik new ACT: difference between program meomory and library? - PANAMATIK - 01-12-2016 02:25 AM
Hi Harald,
Geoff's description is correct. There are 21 programs of 224 steps each in HP-67E available. There are two reasons for differentiating between "program memory" and "program library".
1.) The 10 program memory locations can be accessed by less keystrokes.
2.) The program library locations (up to 100 programs in HP-25E, but only 10 programs in HP-67E) is stored internally in compressed data format mixed with the original HP microcode (PIC flash memory is 14-bit word oriented, 10-bit for HP microcode, 4 bit for program code). This trick allowed me to add 10 more HP-67 programs into flash memory.
The actual loaded program adds one more to a total of 21 programs.
Bernhard
RE: Panamatik new ACT: difference between program meomory and library? - Harald - 01-12-2016 08:11 AM
(01-12-2016 02:25 AM)PANAMATIK Wrote: Hi Harald,
Geoff's description is correct. There are 21 programs of 224 steps each in HP-67E available. There are two reasons for differentiating between "program memory" and "program library".
1.) The 10 program memory locations can be accessed by less keystrokes.
2.) The program library locations (up to 100 programs in HP-25E, but only 10 programs in HP-67E) is stored internally in compressed data format mixed with the original HP microcode (PIC flash memory is 14-bit word oriented, 10-bit for HP microcode, 4 bit for program code). This trick allowed me to add 10 more HP-67 programs into flash memory.
The actual loaded program adds one more to a total of 21 programs.
Bernhard
Oh, Ok, then my first assumption of only 10 programs was wrong.
So if I wanted to transfer more than 10 programs from the computer to the 67E, there is no way to directly write to the library because of the data being mixed with HP microcode? In that case I can transfer the first 10 programs, copy them to the library manually and then copy 10 more.
I think I'll try the user diagnostic program and see what happens :-P
Geoff:
I have a working 67 and 97, too, but I think the 67E is a good addition. I like it even better than the 34E, because being able to keep a library on the computer and send the programs to the calculator is great! The 3.5mm Jack in the battery compartment makes even more sense now.
RE: Panamatik new ACT: difference between program meomory and library? - PANAMATIK - 01-12-2016 05:43 PM
(01-12-2016 08:11 AM)Harald Wrote: there is no way to directly write to the library because of the data being mixed with HP microcode? In that case I can transfer the first 10 programs, copy them to the library manually and then copy 10 more.
Some internals:
Yes you are right, but principally there would be a way even to write to the program library, however it is error prone, so I decided not to implement it. if you accidentally transfer a library program for the wrong calculator (i.e. HP-25 program to an HP67 ACT), then part of the microcode would be overwritten with wrong microcode and the ACT will not work any more, you have to reflash the complete ACT.
For HP-25 only the first 20 library programs are stored mixed with microcode, therefore higher number library programs can be transferred. For HP-67 however all 10 library programs are stored together with microcode.
Better to copy the programs manually. Normally you will not change the library every day.
Bernhard
RE: Panamatik new ACT: difference between program meomory and library? - Harald - 01-12-2016 05:47 PM
(01-12-2016 05:43 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:(01-12-2016 08:11 AM)Harald Wrote: there is no way to directly write to the library because of the data being mixed with HP microcode? In that case I can transfer the first 10 programs, copy them to the library manually and then copy 10 more.
Some internals:
Yes you are right, but principally there would be a way even to write to the program library, however it is error prone, so I decided not to implement it. if you accidentally transfer a library program for the wrong calculator (i.e. HP-25 program to an HP67 ACT), then part of the microcode would be overwritten with wrong microcode and the ACT will not work any more, you have to reflash the complete ACT.
For HP-25 only the first 20 library programs are stored mixed with microcode, therefore higher number library programs can be transferred. For HP-67 however all 10 library programs are stored together with microcode.
Better to copy the programs manually. Normally you will not change the library every day.
Bernhard
Thanks for the insight Bernhard! That makes perefct sense and is not an issue at all.
RE: Panamatik new ACT: difference between program meomory and library? - Geoff Quickfall - 01-12-2016 07:59 PM
Harald, Bernhard:
Remember the merge card command? Does it work on the 67E? Just think how many lines a single program be!
Geoff
RE: Panamatik new ACT: difference between program meomory and library? - Harald - 01-13-2016 07:50 AM
(01-12-2016 07:59 PM)Geoff Quickfall Wrote: Harald, Bernhard:
Remember the merge card command? Does it work on the 67E? Just think how many lines a single program be!
Geoff
To be honest, I never really worked with it, so I am not sure how to test it. I'll have to dig out my manual and read...
RE: Panamatik new ACT: difference between program meomory and library? - Geoff Quickfall - 01-13-2016 05:42 PM
Let's say you have a 400 line routine. The calc accepts 224. Two sides of the card accept 224.
So load the first half of the routine, two cards, input the variables and execute. The last part of the first half of the routine store the new variables in registers and executes the merge function prompting the next card.
The second two sides of the new card call the new variables from their registers (as directed by your routine ) and continues the execution automatically.
This procedure can be repeated for as many cards as you have. If it works in the HP 67E substitute a card for a program location. May or may not work, I don't know.
geoff
RE: Panamatik new ACT: difference between program meomory and library? - PANAMATIK - 01-13-2016 07:16 PM
(01-13-2016 05:42 PM)Geoff Quickfall Wrote: Let's say you have a 400 line routine. The calc accepts 224. Two sides of the card accept 224.
So load the first half of the routine, two cards, input the variables and execute. The last part of the first half of the routine store the new variables in registers and executes the merge function prompting the next card.
The second two sides of the new card call the new variables from their registers (as directed by your routine ) and continues the execution automatically.
This procedure can be repeated for as many cards as you have. If it works in the HP 67E substitute a card for a program location. May or may not work, I don't know.
geoff
I'm sorry that MERGE will not work with HP-67E. Recalling a program with f f RCL ... is not a programmable ihnstruction and always stores 224 steps into the actual program area.
If I ever implement the card reader in a real HP-67 with the next generation ACT I will try to implement also program merging. But please dont wait for it.
Bernhard
RE: Panamatik new ACT: difference between program meomory and library? - Harald - 01-13-2016 10:03 PM
(01-13-2016 07:16 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote: I'm sorry that MERGE will not work with HP-67E. Recalling a program with f f RCL ... is not a programmable ihnstruction and always stores 224 steps into the actual program area.It doesn't necessarily have to be a programmable instruction. The card doesn't load automatically either. You could press f f RCL x x instead of inserting the card. Then somehow let the calculator know that you have done so.
RE: Panamatik new ACT: difference between program meomory and library? - Geoff Quickfall - 01-14-2016 05:02 AM
Harold and Bernhard!
Harold, that is what I did with my 25IR. I broke the programs up into 49 line routines and ran them sequentially by storing the data and then calling it in the next.
Bernhard,
Thanks for the update on the 67IR. I thought it was my machine with the faulty XEQ A thru E.
Cheers, Geoff