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What is a modern-day HP-16C? - Printable Version

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What is a modern-day HP-16C? - Tinue - 09-25-2016 02:55 PM

Hello

What is the modern-day equivalent of an HP-16C? I know that there is a replica available from SwissMicros, but that's not what I mean. A modern-day developer calculator would have a multi line display, so that 32 bit binaries can be shown without scrolling. The HP Prime does this nicely, but doesn't have much else, such as bit shift, logical operators, 2s complement etc.

Many modern calculators have some sort of "hex mode", even binary, but no useful operators on binaries.

Does anyone have a recommendation?


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - Maximilian Hohmann - 09-25-2016 03:37 PM

Most (or all?) CAS calculators can do that, e.g the Hp50g, Ti-89, Ti Voyage 200, Ti nSpire, maybe also the Hp Prime (don't really know because I don't have one).


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - Paul Berger (Canada) - 09-25-2016 05:03 PM

(09-25-2016 02:55 PM)Tinue Wrote:  Hello

What is the modern-day equivalent of an HP-16C? I know that there is a replica available from SwissMicros, but that's not what I mean. A modern-day developer calculator would have a multi line display, so that 32 bit binaries can be shown without scrolling. The HP Prime does this nicely, but doesn't have much else, such as bit shift, logical operators, 2s complement etc.

Many modern calculators have some sort of "hex mode", even binary, but no useful operators on binaries.

Does anyone have a recommendation?

You mean functions like this?

Base functions
Numerous functions related to integer arithmetic can be invoked from Home view and within programs:
BITAND BITNOT BITOR
BITSL BITSR BITXOR
B→R GETBASE GETBITS
R→B SETBASE SETBITS

See the manual section concerning Integer operations, also command descriptions start on page 593 of the Prime manual I am looking at.


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - Tinue - 09-25-2016 05:20 PM

(09-25-2016 05:03 PM)Paul Berger (Canada) Wrote:  You mean functions like this?
Not only functions: Excel has them too, Python, Java, ...
What I am looking for is a calculator with these functions on actual, dedicated keys.

Thanks! Martin


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - Maximilian Hohmann - 09-25-2016 06:18 PM

(09-25-2016 05:20 PM)Tinue Wrote:  What I am looking for is a calculator with these functions on actual, dedicated keys.

Maybe nitpicking here, but the HP-16C doesn't have dedicated keys for those functions either. They are shifted functions of different keys. For me personally that does not make much difference to a function contained in a menu or library then...

If you really want bit-shift functions for hexadecimal or binary numbers on dedicated keys the way to go is either to make an app for a smartphone or build your own calculator (see the "RPNduino" threads).


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - emece67 - 09-25-2016 07:52 PM

I'm using a wp34s with the patches from .... (sorry, cannot remember the name of the developer) that gives direct access to many integer mode ops when in integer mode.

Much more convenient, IMHO, that a 50g.

Regards.


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - Pekis - 09-25-2016 08:23 PM

Hello, the casio fx 5800p shows 32 bits without scrolling: Manual page 86, and allows some bitwise operations


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - Ángel Martin - 09-26-2016 10:32 AM

While working on the 16C MCODE emulator for the 41 we added a few new functions that you may find interesting ´, check the manual at:

http://systemyde.com/pdf/HP_16C_Emulator_Manual.pdf

the table in page 10 summarizes all functions by categories.


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - d b - 09-26-2016 03:41 PM

(09-25-2016 07:52 PM)emece67 Wrote:  I'm using a wp34s with the patches from .... (sorry, cannot remember the name of the developer) that gives direct access to many integer mode ops when in integer mode.

Much more convenient, IMHO, that a 50g.

Regards.

The 34 would be my choice too.


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - DMaier - 09-28-2016 02:29 AM

(09-25-2016 07:52 PM)emece67 Wrote:  I'm using a wp34s with the patches from .... (sorry, cannot remember the name of the developer) that gives direct access to many integer mode ops when in integer mode.

"Bit" was the name of the developer, I believe.


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - emece67 - 09-28-2016 08:37 AM

(09-28-2016 02:29 AM)DMaier Wrote:  
(09-25-2016 07:52 PM)emece67 Wrote:  I'm using a wp34s with the patches from .... (sorry, cannot remember the name of the developer) that gives direct access to many integer mode ops when in integer mode.

"Bit" was the name of the developer, I believe.

Yes, definitely: http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-2932.html

Thanks & regards.


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - Tim Wessman - 09-28-2016 02:34 PM

(09-25-2016 02:55 PM)Tinue Wrote:  without scrolling. The HP Prime does this nicely, but doesn't have much else, such as bit shift, logical operators, 2s complement etc.

Apparently I am misunderstanding something here because all of this is available on Prime (possibly not enough 2s complement things, but includes signed and fixed size integers which aren't really available on the 48 series). Or do you mean specifically as "dedicated keys"?


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - Tinue - 09-28-2016 06:27 PM

Thanks for all the answers! Yes, what I am looking for is a dedicated calculator for binary/hex only. Dedicated keys, that are labeled for hex use, just like the HP-16C offered. I know that all of the HP-16C's functions are present in many modern calculators, including the HP Prime. I may be wrong, but I believe there isn't a menu for hex functions on the Prime: I have to scroll through the full function list. Compared to a simple key press on a dedicated calculator that's quite slow.

Based on the answers so far, such a calculator is no longer produced. The best I could get is apparently an HP 30 with new firmware (if I understood this correctly).

Again, thanks!


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - Tinue - 09-30-2016 03:32 PM

(09-30-2016 03:22 PM)moonbeam Wrote:  Swiss Micro's DM16L?
Nah, see my initial question...


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - NetMage - 10-01-2016 10:25 PM

Why not a 16C from eBay? I have one...

Normally I use either the 34s or my 50g, often my 48/50 emulator on the phone though. Seems like a lot of emulators are on the App Store.


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - DMaier - 10-04-2016 03:26 AM

(09-25-2016 02:55 PM)Tinue Wrote:  A modern-day developer calculator would have a multi line display, so that 32 bit binaries can be shown without scrolling. The HP Prime does this nicely, but doesn't have much else, such as bit shift, logical operators, 2s complement etc.

I suppose that modern-day calculators might include smartphone apps. For example, Perpenso Calc includes everything that you've listed, although it is missing some of the functions that are present on the 16C (on the other hand, it has built-in support for converting IEEE floats). It's also not programmable.

Of course, there is a free app version of the WP-34S...


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - Tinue - 10-04-2016 08:28 AM

(10-04-2016 03:26 AM)DMaier Wrote:  I suppose that modern-day calculators might include smartphone apps.
Yes, I fully agree. All of the apps that I found (my favorite being SC-323PU) share the same misconception. They think I mainly want to convert between e.g. hex and decimal. So I always have to decide if I work in hex, or binary, and switch between these modes.

Usually I want to manipulate bits. These bits I want to see simultaneously in binary, hex and decimal. Possibly even in ascii or unicode. A smartphone or tablet has a big enough screen to support this. Even an HP Prime could support hex and binary at the same time; maybe not ASCII Wink


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - Jake Schwartz - 10-05-2016 05:00 PM

(10-04-2016 03:26 AM)DMaier Wrote:  Of course, there is a free app version of the WP-34S...

Unfortunately, only for iOS and not for Android.

Jake


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - edryer - 08-21-2018 11:07 PM

There is no modern day HP-16C (the DM16L perhaps if you deny yourself the pleasure of HP's aesthetics and feel).

Whilst many later calculators could emulate the functionality (through obtuse key depressions and functions) often getting to the function required would take longer than actually using it, couple this with no direct (or one step indirect) key-mapping.

I work with the ARM architecture doing a lot of reverse engineering with IDA Pro, and frequently require bit manipulation to check/debug stuff and in this situation far prefer the 16C over both software emulations and other calculators with triple the functionality for well less than half of the price of a used 16C!

Having the physical calculator handy also encourages playing about, testing stuff, and I can say after a few weeks with the 16C it has become very intuitive to use.

Outside of low level code work though it is useless (two transcendental functions), and I switch to a TI-86 (another underrated classic available often for $20 or so) for Matrices and all my Linear work.


RE: What is a modern-day HP-16C? - Dave Britten - 08-22-2018 04:50 PM

The TI-86 is really solid for this kind of thing, though calling it modern-day at 21-years old is a stretch. But it can handle 16 digits in hex, bin, and oct modes, and can do And, Or, Xor, Not, and shifts and rotates. Plus it's programmable, of course.

The Casio fx-5800P will handle 32-bit binary values, and displays them without scrolling by showing 16 bits per line, but the logic operators are in the Function menus, and it doesn't have shifts and rotates. However, it too is programmable, so there's a lot of room to add the functionality you need.