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71B FORTH/Assembler and the 41 Translator - Dave Frederickson - 10-01-2016 04:02 PM I discovered, recently, a flaw in my understanding of bank switching with FRAM71/B. The result is that I configured the FORTH/Assembler soft-configured ROM with the 41 Translator hard-configured ROM. The funny thing is, the FORTH/Assembler appears to work. Emu71 can be configured like this so a FRAM71 isn't needed for verification. Can anyone confirm that this works? It would make bank switching the two ROM's much simpler. Dave RE: 71B FORTH/Assembler and the 41 Translator - rprosperi - 10-01-2016 08:24 PM (10-01-2016 04:02 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote: I discovered, recently, a flaw in my understanding of bank switching with FRAM71/B. The result is that I configured the FORTH/Assembler soft-configured ROM with the 41 Translator hard-configured ROM. The funny thing is, the FORTH/Assembler appears to work. Using the F41-HC ROM with FTH-SC ROM probably will let you start FORTH, and maybe do simple command line calcs, but once you start doing more serious stuff, it will crash as the internal (headerless) commands are *not* the same between the 2 ROMs. Also, the internal buffers are different and all the internal addresses are shifted. HP had to change quite a number of the original Forth/Assem internal commands to get the F41 Translator to work; this is written-up somewhere... probably an issue of PPC-CJ or CHHU, Datafile, etc. Try defining any non-trivial program and then run it and you will probably find MEM LOST pretty quickly. RE: 71B FORTH/Assembler and the 41 Translator - Dave Frederickson - 10-01-2016 08:40 PM (10-01-2016 08:24 PM)rprosperi Wrote: Using the F41-HC ROM with FTH-SC ROM probably will let you start FORTH, and maybe do simple command line calcs, but once you start doing more serious stuff, it will crash as the internal (headerless) commands are *not* the same between the 2 ROMs. Also, the internal buffers are different and all the internal addresses are shifted. HP had to change quite a number of the original Forth/Assem internal commands to get the F41 Translator to work; this is written-up somewhere... probably an issue of PPC-CJ or CHHU, Datafile, etc. Yeah, I didn't think so. Well, there's always Plan "B". RE: 71B FORTH/Assembler and the 41 Translator - Sylvain Cote - 10-02-2016 12:24 AM (10-01-2016 04:02 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote: Can anyone confirm that this works? It would make bank switching the two ROM's much simpler. Hello Dave, As Robert pointed it out, it will not work. Same language but different word dictionary, RAM organization, etc. Here is an extract from Bill Wickes module introduction in CHHU Chronicle V2N1P11 January/February 1985 RELATION TO THE FORTH/ASSEMBLER ROM The Translator Pac FORTH system is very similar to that contained in the HP 82441A Forth/Assembler ROM. At first approximation, the Translator Pao just is the FORTH/Assembler ROM, with the HP41 vocabulary substituted for the Assembler (the KEYBOARD IS lex file Is also not present in the Translator Pac). This has the drawback noted previously that both modules can not be plugged into the HP-71 simultaneously. But further, the two FORTH systems cannot share the same RAM files. This is due to the differing organizations of the system portions of the RAM files, and to the fact that the ROM-based FORTH dictionaries are different, so that the compilation addresses of the ROM words are not the same for the two systems. The FORTH/Assembler ROM's RAM file is named FORTHRAM; the Translator Pac's is named FTH41RAM. The different names should help programmers keep the two types of files sorted out. Here is a brief summary of the primary differences between the two FORTH systems:
Sylvain edit: typo RE: 71B FORTH/Assembler and the 41 Translator - Dave Frederickson - 10-02-2016 12:33 AM Hi Sylvain, I got it, not compatible. So bank switching HC ROM's is still a mystery. Dave |