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+--- Thread: 71B EPROM Programming (/thread-9635.html)
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71B EPROM Programming - Dave Frederickson - 12-11-2017 05:11 AM
I've recently acquired a CMT EPROM programmer for the 71B and I'd like to offer a FREE EPROM programming service to the forum members.
If you have a CMT front-port EPROM module not being used, consider having it reprogrammed. You could get the module programmed with, for example:
* Math Module
* JPC ROM - http://www.jeffcalc.hp41.eu/emu71/jpcrom.html
* CMT C71 Emulator - http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-9640-post-85247.html#pid85247
* A custom ROM, perhaps one with the FRAM71 Toolkit
PM me if interested.
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - aj04062 - 12-11-2017 11:43 PM
Good job scoring
(12-11-2017 05:11 AM)Dave Frederickson Wrote: I've recently acquired a CMT EPROM programmer for the 71B and I'd like to offer a FREE EPROM programming service to the forum members.
If you have a CMT front-port EPROM module not being used, consider having it reprogrammed. You could get the module programmed with, for example:
* Math Module
* JPC ROM - http://www.jeffcalc.hp41.eu/emu71/jpcrom.html
* CMT C71 Emulator - http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-9640-post-85247.html#pid85247
* A custom ROM, perhaps one with the FRAM71 Toolkit
PM me if interested.
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - Mark Hardman - 01-30-2018 03:16 AM
(12-11-2017 05:11 AM)Dave Frederickson Wrote: If you have a CMT front-port EPROM module not being used, consider having it reprogrammed. You could get the module programmed with, for example:
* JPC ROM - http://www.jeffcalc.hp41.eu/emu71/jpcrom.html
* A custom ROM, perhaps one with the FRAM71 Toolkit
This a continuation of a discussion in the WANTED: FORTH/Assembler ROM for 71b thread.
I was looking through my collection of 71B ROMs for the CMT71-32E burned as a Math Pac. In the process, I discovered that I have not one but two CMT71-32E EPROMs!
I definitely want one burned with the JPC ROM. I'm thinking that a custom ROM would be great for the other EPROM--starting, as suggested, with the FRAM71 Toolkit. The question is, what other LEX files to include. Bob has suggested also including ROMCOPY, HLPLEX and DISLEX. I've perused The HP-71 LEXicon on Joe's site. There are just so many options as to be overwhelming. I would appreciate any suggestions of how to fill this second EPROM.
Thanks!
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - Joe Horn - 01-30-2018 04:43 AM
For what it's worth, here are the files that I keep in my 71's 32K IRAM because I can't live without them:
ML (my custom Memory Lost program)
STRINGLX
NIBBLEX
HLPLEX
FACTORLX
SQUASH (a tiny BASIC program; I forget what it does)
ROMCOPY
SHOWPORT
JPCF01 (a file-version of the JPC ROM)
CURLEX
PEEKUTIL
CKSUMLEX
KEYCHRLX
... which leaves 130 bytes free in that port.
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - polbit - 01-30-2018 02:07 PM
If using a 64K EPROM, is it possible to burn JPC ROM, Math Module ROM, and some individual LEX files?
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - rprosperi - 01-30-2018 02:15 PM
(01-30-2018 04:43 AM)Joe Horn Wrote: For what it's worth, here are the files that I keep in my 71's 32K IRAM because I can't live without them:
...
@Joe - why do you keep PEEKUTIL installed if NIBBLEX is there - doesn't the latter completely replace the former?
Also, why not update your JPCF01 LEX to JPCF05 ?
@Mark - The SHOWPORT LEX file is only needed if you have a 1BBBB ROM 71B, the later ROM versions have the SHOWPORT enhancements built-in
I gotta go explore CKSUMLEX and KEYCHRLX, these are new to me; both are in the OLDP files with source.
Thanks Joe, still learning 71B stuff even after all these years.
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - rprosperi - 01-30-2018 02:31 PM
(01-30-2018 02:07 PM)polbit Wrote: If using a 64K EPROM, is it possible to burn JPC ROM, Math Module ROM, and some individual LEX files?
Yes it is, however the CMT 64KB EPROM is actually 2 separate 32KB chips, so you will end up with 2 x 32KB PORTs, e.g. if inserted in port 2, they would be seen as :PORT(2) and :PORT(2.01).
So you will need to load JPC ROM into 1 bank, and MATH ROM* into the other, but both will have room for additional files.
* Note: The original MATH ROM used a full 32KB ROM image, even though the actual LEX file length is only 27,682 bytes (the image was zero-padded to fill out the full 32KB). Shorter versions of the file have been created to provide more space, to allow more LEX files to be loaded, as discussed here.
In the archives, the original 32K LEX file is generally named MATHROM, while the reduced 27.5K file is named MATHLEX.
Note this discussion about 64KB CMT EPROMs is different than if you have a 64K RAM module (e.g. in EMU71, or with FRAM, etc.) in which case this 64KB is accessed as a single port, while CMT and/or HHP 64/96/128/160KB RAM modules have the same 32KB port restrictions as the EPROM, so each physical module is addressed as multiple ports as described above.
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - polbit - 01-30-2018 02:58 PM
(01-30-2018 02:31 PM)rprosperi Wrote:(01-30-2018 02:07 PM)polbit Wrote: If using a 64K EPROM, is it possible to burn JPC ROM, Math Module ROM, and some individual LEX files?
Yes it is, however the CMT 64KB EPROM is actually 2 separate 32KB chips, so you will end up with 2 x 32KB PORTs, e.g. if inserted in port 2, they would be seen as :PORT(2) and :PORT(2.01).
So you will need to load JPC ROM into 1 bank, and MATH ROM* into the other, but both will have room for additional files.
* Note: The original MATH ROM used a full 32KB ROM image, even though the actual LEX file length is only 27,682 bytes (the image was zero-padded to fill out the full 32KB). Shorter versions of the file have been created to provide more space, to allow more LEX files to be loaded, as discussed here.
In the archives, the original 32K LEX file is generally named MATHROM, while the reduced 27.5K file is named MATHLEX.
Note this discussion about 64KB CMT EPROMs is different than if you have a 64K RAM module (e.g. in EMU71, or with FRAM, etc.) in which case this 64KB is accessed as a single port, while CMT and/or HHP 64/96/128/160KB RAM modules have the same 32KB port restrictions as the EPROM, so each physical module is addressed as multiple ports as described above.
Perfect, thanks for the explanation! Now I just have to figure out all the additional LEX files, and then ask Dave for his generous help with burning.
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - Dave Frederickson - 01-30-2018 04:37 PM
Wow! Excellent suggestions. In addition, there was some chatter a while back about the KEYBOARD Rev C LEX.
http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-5335.html
ML can be stored in an IRAM if you're trying to squeeze files into the EPROM. This could be of interest to those with a stockpile of EPROM's looking to increase their value on eBay and not wanting to include a custom ML file.
Dave
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - rprosperi - 01-30-2018 08:03 PM
(01-30-2018 04:37 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote: Wow! Excellent suggestions. In addition, there was some chatter a while back about the KEYBOARD Rev C LEX.
http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-5335.html
ML can be stored in an IRAM if you're trying to squeeze files into the EPROM. This could be of interest to those with a stockpile of EPROM's looking to increase their value on eBay and not wanting to include a custom ML file.
Dave
Good thought about including the latest KEYBOARD LEX file in the EPROM image, but keep in mind that an EPROM with this installed will have to be in a lower numbered port than the FORTH/Assembler ROM, for this version to be found.
Except on FRAM-equipped 71B machines, IRAM contents are typically lost when a MEM LOST occurs (depends on why) so keeping ML in an IRAM won't help, as it won't be available when the JPC ROM poll tries to call it.
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - Dave Frederickson - 01-30-2018 08:38 PM
(01-30-2018 08:03 PM)rprosperi Wrote: Except on FRAM-equipped 71B machines, IRAM contents are typically lost when a MEM LOST occurs (depends on why) so keeping ML in an IRAM won't help, as it won't be available when the JPC ROM poll tries to call it.
An IRAM should protect against an INIT 3 and is where the JPC ROM manual suggests putting the file if not in an EPROM.
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - rprosperi - 01-30-2018 10:06 PM
(01-30-2018 08:38 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:(01-30-2018 08:03 PM)rprosperi Wrote: Except on FRAM-equipped 71B machines, IRAM contents are typically lost when a MEM LOST occurs (depends on why) so keeping ML in an IRAM won't help, as it won't be available when the JPC ROM poll tries to call it.
An IRAM should protect against an INIT 3 and is where the JPC ROM manual suggests putting the file if not in an EPROM.
I know that, and you know that, but the 71B doesn't always know that...
Key word here is 'should'. I suspect the IRAM contents will survive an INIT 3 every time; it's just the real genuine crashing-style MEM LOST conditions that can trash the IRAM contents. Still if there is no room in the EPROM, I surely agree it's better to put ML into an IRAM and hope it survives.
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - Joe Horn - 01-31-2018 03:50 AM
(01-30-2018 02:15 PM)rprosperi Wrote: @Joe - why do you keep PEEKUTIL installed if NIBBLEX is there - doesn't the latter completely replace the former?
I only keep both because some programs use one and some use the other. Having both installed lets me not worry about which one anybody else is using.
(01-30-2018 02:15 PM)rprosperi Wrote: Also, why not update your JPCF01 LEX to JPCF05 ?
My only reason for not updating it is: Inertia, the strongest natural force in human history.
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - J-F Garnier - 01-31-2018 08:17 AM
(01-30-2018 02:31 PM)rprosperi Wrote:Sorry, Bob, that's not correct. The CMT 64KB EPROM provides a single 64KB space in one port. So you can put the JPC LEX, the shorten Math LEX and have room for other LEXs such as ROMCOPY and the User Lib 1 compilation ULIB52.(01-30-2018 02:07 PM)polbit Wrote: If using a 64K EPROM, is it possible to burn JPC ROM, Math Module ROM, and some individual LEX files?Yes it is, however the CMT 64KB EPROM is actually 2 separate 32KB chips, so you will end up with 2 x 32KB PORTs, e.g. if inserted in port 2, they would be seen as :PORT(2) and :PORT(2.01).
J-F
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - rprosperi - 01-31-2018 01:20 PM
(01-31-2018 08:17 AM)J-F Garnier Wrote: Sorry, Bob, that's not correct. The CMT 64KB EPROM provides a single 64KB space in one port. So you can put the JPC LEX, the shorten Math LEX and have room for other LEXs such as ROMCOPY and the User Lib 1 compilation ULIB52.
J-F
I apologize, the 32KB 'chunks' is only true for the RAM Modules. Which is good news since it makes for an easier space to load LEX files without wasting space. Sorry for bad info.
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - polbit - 02-01-2018 02:29 AM
I have to say, deciding what to put on a 64K EPROM while not having much experience with a lot of the LEX files or ROMs is harder than it looks... So far, I'm thinking:
Custom ML
JPC F05 32k
MATHLEX 28k
ROMCOPY
HLPLEX
DISLEX
STRINGLX
NIBBLEX
Am I missing any essential software?
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - rprosperi - 02-01-2018 03:03 AM
(02-01-2018 02:29 AM)polbit Wrote: Am I missing any essential software?
It's very hard to give you good advice without knowing a bit more about what your interests are and what you plan to do with your 71B, and to a lesser extent, what type it is.
Are you interested primarily in math and number-crunching, or using HP-IL and peripherals, or doing FORTH or Assembler programming, etc. There are literally thousands of files available, but which ones are relevant and important enough to promote to your EPROM selections depends on what you do.
Here's an example - if your 71B has ROM 1BBBB, you should definitely include the SHOWPORT LEX file, as it adds important extensions to the built-in command, but in the 2CCCC and 2CDCC ROMs, these extensions are built-in, so adding the LEX file is a waste.
Tell us more and we can give you more and better advice.
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - Dave Frederickson - 02-01-2018 03:10 AM
(02-01-2018 02:29 AM)polbit Wrote: Am I missing any essential software?
Don't beat yourself up about it. If you change your mind down the road we can always reprogram it.
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - polbit - 02-01-2018 03:37 AM
(02-01-2018 03:03 AM)rprosperi Wrote:(02-01-2018 02:29 AM)polbit Wrote: Am I missing any essential software?
It's very hard to give you good advice without knowing a bit more about what your interests are and what you plan to do with your 71B, and to a lesser extent, what type it is.
Are you interested primarily in math and number-crunching, or using HP-IL and peripherals, or doing FORTH or Assembler programming, etc. There are literally thousands of files available, but which ones are relevant and important enough to promote to your EPROM selections depends on what you do.
Here's an example - if your 71B has ROM 1BBBB, you should definitely include the SHOWPORT LEX file, as it adds important extensions to the built-in command, but in the 2CCCC and 2CDCC ROMs, these extensions are built-in, so adding the LEX file is a waste.
Tell us more and we can give you more and better advice.
Thanks, I have 2CDCC on both of my 71Bs. My interest lies in Forth/Assembler/Math, in that order. I have a Pil-Box which I use a lot, and an HP-IL Thinkjet which I haven't used yet (in a nice custom suitcase...)
RE: 71B EPROM Programming - polbit - 02-01-2018 03:41 AM
(02-01-2018 03:10 AM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:(02-01-2018 02:29 AM)polbit Wrote: Am I missing any essential software?
Don't beat yourself up about it. If you change your mind down the road we can always reprogram it.
I hear you, but it's also learning about what's available/worth it. I discovered the 71B too late in life, spent too much time on 28C-48GX!