41CL - PowerCL Extreme - Problems (probably operator related)

41CL - PowerCL Extreme - Problems (probably operator related) - Printable Version

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41CL - PowerCL Extreme - Problems (probably operator related) - PeterP - 12-17-2017 06:14 AM

Hi, so I've been tremendously enjoying my brand new 41CL V5 from Monte, and spending hours reading through the countless modules Angel has created in the last few years. It seems every month there is a new CL Power Expanded Extra Super Utility plus coming out. Simply amazing!

However I'm stuck trying to understand how the PowerCl Extreme works.

First, let me share how I set up the 41Cl:

Code:

Memory Lost

TURBO50................want this to go fast

MMUDIS..................disable MMU

MMUCLR..................clear the MMU

"YFNX"....................“41CL Extreme Functions” ID into alpha

PLUGH....................plug it to the logical page 7 (HP-IL reserved location)

“804040-8120”........“Lib#4” physical location 

YPOKE....................plug Lib#4 into page 4 (PowerCL Ext needs it)

“PWRX”...................“PowerCL” ID into alpha

PLUG1L...................plug it page 8

MMUEN...................enable MMU

After this I can do a XCAT - "G" to see that everything is properly plugged in. I get the following info:

Quote:4: Lib#4 R44
5: Time 3A
6: no rom
7: YFNX 2C
8: PWREXT B3
rest 'no rom'

So far, so good.

Now, when I try to an XEQ "PGCAT" I get the message NONEXISTENT!

This seems strange to me, but maybe this is how it is supposed to be, namely that I can not enter the function PGCAT directly, but only via the launcher.

Question 1: Is this behavior expected?

The functions that I really care about are for banks, namely BANKED and BANKS?. Again, I can't launch those functions directly via XEQ. But I can get to them via the launchers: XEQ "XCAT" "G" [SHIFT] "B" executes the function BANKED. Now here is the next surprise: The display shows as answer 5! Only 5!

Even though the PowerCL_EXT is in page 8 and seems clearly bankswitched, it is not listed.

Question 2: Is this behavior expected? What am I doing wrong?

The underlying task I am trying to accomplish is to copy bankswitched physical modules to the PC for further analysis. For that, I have to find out which modules are actually bankswitched and with how many banks.

Unfortunately the function that I need for that, CPYBNK does not reside in the PowerCL_EXT, but has to be taken from the "CL ExpMem", which requires the "AOS/OSX" as well. And then I need the HEAPX and at least one page of RAM also, making the calc pretty full. If only Angel could squeeze the CPYBNK function into the PowerCL_EXT...

It would be really helpful if I could assign the functions BANKED and "BANKS? to a key, but when I try this, I get the NONEXISTENT message again.

Question 3: Is there a way to assign these functions to a key?

Anyways, it would be great to hear from the experts on what I am doing wrong and how to fix it.

As always, thank you so much!

RE: 41CL - PowerCL Extreme - Problems (probably operator related) - Ángel Martin - 12-17-2017 07:44 AM

Hi Peter, - it's all working correctly; let's see these one at a time:-

(12-17-2017 06:14 AM)PeterP Wrote:

Code:

Memory Lost TURBO50................want this to go fast MMUDIS..................disable MMU MMUCLR..................clear the MMU "YFNX"....................“41CL Extreme Functions” ID into alpha PLUGH....................plug it to the logical page 7 (HP-IL reserved location) “804040-8120”........“Lib#4” physical location YPOKE....................plug Lib#4 into page 4 (PowerCL Ext needs it) “PWRX”...................“PowerCL” ID into alpha PLUG1L...................plug it page 8 MMUEN...................enable MMU

After this I can do a XCAT - "G" to see that everything is properly plugged in. I get the following info:

Quote:4: Lib#4 R44
5: Time 3A
6: no rom
7: YFNX 2C
8: PWREXT B3
rest 'no rom'

So far, so good.

Indeed that looks alright, everything as expected.

(12-17-2017 06:14 AM)PeterP Wrote: Now, when I try to an XEQ "PGCAT" I get the message NONEXISTENT!

This seems strange to me, but maybe this is how it is supposed to be, namely that I can not enter the function PGCAT directly, but only via the launcher.

Question 1: Is this behavior expected?

Yes it is, PGCAT is a sub-function in one of the two auxiliary FATs that are in this module, and therefore needs to be accessed using any of the several sub-function launchers.

If you want to do it by spelling their names, there are two of these launchers in the PWRX module, named "XQ$1" and "XQ$2". Their index refer to the corresponding sub-FAT they start the search with, but either one will eventually search on both (and even on all main FATs if the name isn't found in the sub-FATs...)

This is the "manual" approach, in which you spell the sub-function name at the launcher prompt. This is identical to the "HEPAXA" function in the HEPAX module, which you'd call to then spell "BCAT" at its prompt - i.e. the original "Block Catalog" - that I renamed as PGCAT in the PWRXT. Do you see the equivalence now?

(12-17-2017 06:14 AM)PeterP Wrote: The functions that I really care about are for banks, namely BANKED and BANKS?. Again, I can't launch those functions directly via XEQ. But I can get to them via the launchers: XEQ "XCAT" [SHIFT] "B" executes the function BANKED. Now here is the next surprise: The display shows as answer 5! Only 5!

Even though the PowerCL_EXT is in page 8 and seems clearly bankswitched, it is not listed.

Question 2: Is this behavior expected? What am I doing wrong?

Not quite. First off, here too you're dealing with sub-functions (BANKED, BANKS?, BFREE, BUSED...) and as such you need to use a sun-function launcher to access them by their names. This you're doing well: XCAT, SHIFT invokes IOBUS, and then "B" triggers the sub-function BANKED.

But definitely BANKED should report the PowerCLExtreme itself in the list of results, that's an anomaly.

Try BUSED, does that show the page used by the PWRXT ?
This could be a version mismatch, try XEQ "XQ$2" "REV" ; which string does it return?

(12-17-2017 06:14 AM)PeterP Wrote: The underlying task I am trying to accomplish is to copy bank-switched physical modules to the PC for further analysis. For that, I have to find out which modules are actually bank-switched and with how many banks.

Unfortunately the function that I need for that, CPYBNK does not reside in the PowerCL_EXT, but has to be taken from the "CL ExpMem", which requires the "AOS/OSX" as well. And then I need the HEAPX and at least one page of RAM also, making the calc pretty full. If only Angel could squeeze the CPYBNK function into the PowerCL_EXT...

The AMC_OS/X is not really needed if all you want to use from the CL_XPMem module is the CPYBNK function. (although I'd always recommend you have it plugged in... it tucks away in page#6 and thus doesn't use any of the upper pages so they'll all fit).

(12-17-2017 06:14 AM)PeterP Wrote: It would be really helpful if I could assign the functions BANKED and "BANKS? to a key, but when I try this, I get the NONEXISTENT message again.

Question 3: Is there a way to assign these functions to a key?

No, it's not possible to assign sub-functions to a key because they are not in the main FAT and thus the OS knows nothing about them. By the same token they cannot be accessed by the standard XEQ anyway.

That's why the main "sCL" (s: sigma) and the other "launchers" (like IOBUS) facilitate things immensely, as the sub-functions are pre-assigned to hot keys. There are several of these launchers that group many sub-functions by categories. All of them launchers can be triggered from the main launcher sCL, so it's pretty much an alternate keyboard at your fingerprints...

Really sCL is your best friend and probably will cover all your needs - you should assign it to the Sigma+ key and experiment with it a bit, it opens the door to all the many different layers within the module.

(12-17-2017 06:14 AM)PeterP Wrote: Anyways, it would be great to hear from the experts on what I am doing wrong and how to fix it.

As always, thank you so much!

Hope these pointers help you get the gist of things, it's really simpler than it seems once you grasp the difference between normal functions in the main FAT and sub-functions in the sub-FATs...

Cheers,
ÁM

RE: 41CL - PowerCL Extreme - Problems (probably operator related) - PeterP - 12-18-2017 01:44 AM

Thanks Angel (And Geir) for all your tips, I'm glad at least some things where correctly done by the operator :-)

So BUSED shows that page 8 is used, which is where the PWEXT is plugged in. When executing the REV function as you had suggested I get

Quote:REV: 07.21.2016

When I plug in the HEPAX in 9/RAM in A via HPX4 with entering A at the prompt, running BANKED shows 5:9. So somehow I'm missing the PWERXT being picked up by this function. Anything I should do differently?

Lastly, for the AMC/OSX, which one should I use? There are a few similarly sounding ones in the IMDB. AOSX, OSX3, 4AOS are the ones I can find. Which one should I use? Do all of them work in page 6?

I presume I have to load them into page 6 (PLUGP, right?) or do they relocate themselves into page 6? Right now, I was thinking of putting the HEPAX into page 6, but it would be good to know if this one works in page 6 as then I can keep it there all of the time. I do like the expanded catalogs and ability to enter Sto d directly...

Thank you for your kind help!

RE: 41CL - PowerCL Extreme - Problems (probably operator related) - rprosperi - 12-18-2017 03:00 AM

(12-18-2017 01:44 AM)PeterP Wrote: Lastly, for the AMC/OSX, which one should I use? There are a few similarly sounding ones in the IMDB. AOSX, OSX3, 4AOS are the ones I can find. Which one should I use? Do all of them work in page 6?

I presume I have to load them into page 6 (PLUGP, right?) or do they relocate themselves into page 6? Right now, I was thinking of putting the HEPAX into page 6, but it would be good to know if this one works in page 6 as then I can keep it there all of the time. I do like the expanded catalogs and ability to enter Sto d directly...

I can help with basic config and which AMC/OSX to use and how to setup.

Here's a quick recipe:

• Load Extra Functions Extreme into Port 1U (Page-9)
XEQ MMUCLR
“YFNX”
XEQ PLUG1U
XEQ MMUEN

• Load Library-4
“804040-8120”
XEQ YPOKE

• Load AMC CCD-OS/X into Page-8
XEQ “PLUG”
“OSX3”
8

• Load PowerCL Extreme Utilities into Page-C
XEQ “PLUG”
“PWRX”
C

These are the page addresses I happen to use (gaps are because of other ROMs (and sometimes HEPAX RAM) I use, not relevant to this answer. YFNX and OSX need to be installed in these pages (or at least with OSX lower than YFNX) for things to work right.

This may resolve the other issues, but in any case start with this and build from there.

RE: 41CL - PowerCL Extreme - Problems (probably operator related) - PeterP - 12-18-2017 05:11 AM

Thanks Bob, super helpful. I did not have AOSX in lower page than YFNX so that might be an issue. Will try and report back!

Thank you!

RE: 41CL - PowerCL Extreme - Problems (probably operator related) - Monte Dalrymple - 12-18-2017 05:45 AM

(12-18-2017 03:00 AM)rprosperi Wrote: • Load Library-4
“804040-8120”
XEQ YPOKE

The easier way to use YFNX to plug in Library-4 is:

XEQ "PLUG"
"4LIB"
4

RE: 41CL - PowerCL Extreme - Problems (probably operator related) - Ángel Martin - 12-18-2017 05:53 AM

Bob has already mentioned the OSX3 as the ROM mnemonic for the most capable version of the AMC_OS/X

Also important is to use YFNX - and not YFNS - with the PowerCL Extreme PRWX.
These two need to be paired, as mentioned in the manual a few times...

BTW on the CL the Hepax ROM does not relocate automatically to the lowest available page, you need to specify which page to plug it to in the PLUG command, or using any of the HEPX4/8/16 utilities (these also load and configure the Hepax RAM).

Finally, the latest revision of PWRX returns

Quote:REV: 07.21.2017

So you're not using the latest and this may account for the fact that the PWRX page is not shown in the BANKED results (I vaguely remember I had to tweak it when the code was moved to bank-3). But this is just a cosmetic glitch in the reporting; the module is bank-switched I assure you that... and should be otherwise fully operational.

HTH.

RE: 41CL - PowerCL Extreme - Problems (probably operator related) - Ángel Martin - 12-18-2017 09:41 AM

(12-18-2017 06:38 AM)Geir Isene Wrote: Where do I find the latest PWRX image (and which bank is which when I extract the ROM images from the MOD file?

To my knowledge the latest ROM images are in the CL package. There are four ROM files, labeled PWREXT1/2/3/4.ROM - the index denotes the bank position in the MOD file.

RE: 41CL - PowerCL Extreme - Problems (probably operator related) - rprosperi - 12-18-2017 03:07 PM

(12-18-2017 11:15 AM)Geir Isene Wrote: Could you send me the latest as ROMs (not as a MOD file)?

Geir - Get the ROM zip file at the top of the 41CL files page:

http://www.systemyde.com/hp41/files.html

With very rare exception, this source contains all the latest copies of just about all 41 ROMs, all in ROM (not .MOD) format. And the corresponding 41CL manual (on the manuals page) has the list of ROM names, address in CL, XROM, etc. that can help decode which is which if the names are confusing.