The lack of handling root functions in hp prime

[grsbanks]

(12-30-2018 11:31 AM)Komanguy Wrote:  A calculator has hardware keys wich is more comfortable than typing on touchscreen or computer keyboard.
It starts faster, you can have your calculations immediately. You want to study something, you take your paper notebook, your books, your pencil and your calculator and here you go.
Also, your brain works better with sketches, handwriting, instead of typing everything on a computer.

What he said.

But with a big caveat.

Without wanting to over-simplify the situation with sweeping generalizations, this is definitely an age thing. I fall firmly into the category of users described above. I want a physical device with real keys on it and I too think better using a pad and a pencil, which means that a real calculator is what I want to use. Why do I stick with my 41C, which is a machine released 40 years ago? Because it fits my needs without me having to change the way I work most effectively.

However, I can't ignore the up and coming generation of youngsters who prefer to embrace technology to a far greater degree than I do. For these guys, there really is very little point in using a physical device because it's just one more thing to haul around and clutter up the briefcase (for those who still use one).

The calculator's days are numbered now, I have no doubt of that. But isn't that the very reason why there are places like this, the "Museum of HP Calculators?" Even if we can't preserve the physical hardware (many of us here are doing what we can about that in personal collections!), we can at least preserve information about it in the hope that future generations will be inspired to find out what all the fuss was about.

[John P]

(12-30-2018 11:31 AM)Komanguy Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 10:08 AM)John P Wrote:  Hello,
My two cents. I think that the era of calculators is over. What is the point of using them in this time and age? Yes, HP Prime is very capable calculating machine and nobody can deny that. It is also true that HP Prime has a lot of bugs and/or inconsistencies and this does not mean that it is the fault of prof. B.Parisse. In general it is amazing how much you can do with this calculator, but it is also true that it takes a lot of patience and perseverance to learn how to get the most out of it. What are graphing calculators for? The obvious and I think false answer is: to learn mathematics. I doubt that you can learn mathematics using for example calculator such as HP Prime. The HP Prime can only speed up your work and hopefully catch some mistakes in your work. The not so generally acknowledged fact is that mostly students are using graphing calcs. to 'cheet' if possible on exams. No graphing calc. will think for you,ever because if it could you become redundant and the calc. will not need you. Since, in many schools that care about real teaching you are not allowed to use the graphing calculators on exams so, the only role left to that calc is to help doing your studies and/or homework. My opinion is: why bother with that little and powerful 'toy' if you can get yourself a lot of real viewing estate with 13.3 in. convertible and install GIAC, XCAS, Mathematica, etc. or whatever your heart desires. This is what I will do in 2019, I am waiting for good and reasonably priced 13.3 in. convertible with the specs I want and I will buy it. What I write is in no way to disrespect and/or diminish the work prof. B. Parisse put in his project, but now it is the time to move on and why to doodle on that little screen if you can have 13.3 in. laptop. True, it takes more space and it does not fit in the pocket, but hey, who cares. The time will soon come that somebody will make real computer to put it in your pocket and the screen of your choosing you will be able to carry in your bag. Happy New Year 2019 for everybody.
John P.

I do have an ipad, a laptop and a phone of course, but I prefer to use a real calculator, my prime.
A calculator has hardware keys wich is more comfortable than typing on touchscreen or computer keyboard.
It starts faster, you can have your calculations immediately. You want to study something, you take your paper notebook, your books, your pencil and your calculator and here you go.
Also, your brain works better with sketches, handwriting, instead of typing everything on a computer.

Hard to argue with your point. This is the convenience of calc, but with good convertible you can have a stylus and that replaces pencil and paper, your book could be pdf or epub format and you have all you need in one package always with you. If you need serious work you just ALT+TAB and you go. I think the VC would do for replacing the physical calc.
Cheers.

[Komanguy]

(12-22-2018 03:29 AM)yangyongkang Wrote:  As we all know, rational functions are better than transcendental functions, and polynomial is better than root in rational functions. Therefore, it is more difficult to deal with root simplification. Because of the large computational memory and fast speed on the simulator or XCAS, the problem of jamming or restarting rarely occurs, but the reason for the operation card being stuck or restarted often occurs on the hp prime physical machine. First come to the classic and simple representative example: simplify(sqrt(x+y+2*sqrt(x*y))|x>0, y>0), we want to get sqrt(x)+sqrt(y), But did not get it. Another example: simplify(λ*√((x-a)^2+y^2)+μ*√(x^2+(y-b)^2)|y=sqrt(r^2-x^2)), Simplify(∂(λ*sqrt(a^2-2*x*a+r^2)+μ*sqrt(b^2-2*sqrt(r^2-x^2)*b+r^2) ,x)),solve(∂(λ*sqrt(a^2-2*x*a+r^2)+μ*sqrt(b^2-2*sqrt(r^2-x^2)*b +r^2), x)=0, x),solve(x^2+(x-2)^2+2*y^2-sqrt(x^2+y^2)*sqrt((x-2)^2+y^2)=4,y),solve((2*√3*x^2-2*√3*x*x0+2*√3*y^2-√3*√(3*x^4-6*x0*x^3+6*x^2*y^2+(-2*√3*√(-3*x0^2+6*x0+1)+2*√3)*x^2*y+(6*x0+2-2*√(-3*x0^2+6*x0+1))*x^2-6*x0*x*y^2+3*y^4+(-2*√3*√(-3*x0^2+6*x0+1)+2*√3)*y^3+(6*x0+2-2*√(-3*x0^2+6*x0+1))*y^2)-2*y*√(-3*x0^2+6*x0+1)+2*y) = 0,x),simplify(((-(sqrt(3)))*sqrt(3*((-3*2^(1/3)/(2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3))+((2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3)/2^(1/3))+3))/6)-((sqrt((3*2^(1/3)/(2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3))-((2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3)/2^(1/3))+6+48/(sqrt(3)*sqrt(3*((-3*2^(1/3)/(2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3))+((2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3)/2^(1/3))+3)))))/2)-(1/2),((-(sqrt(3)))*sqrt(3*((-3*2^(1/3)/(2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3))+((2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3)/2^(1/3))+3))/6)+((sqrt((3*2^(1/3)/(2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3))-((2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3)/2^(1/3))+6+48/(sqrt(3)*sqrt(3*((-3*2^(1/3)/(2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3))+((2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3)/2^(1/3))+3)))))/2)-(1/2),(sqrt(3)*sqrt(3*((-3*2^(1/3)/(2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3))+((2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3)/2^(1/3))+3))/6)-((sqrt((3*2^(1/3)/(2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3))-((2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3)/2^(1/3))+6-48/(sqrt(3)*sqrt(3*((-3*2^(1/3)/(2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3))+((2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3)/2^(1/3))+3)))))/2)-(1/2),(sqrt(3)*sqrt(3*((-3*2^(1/3)/(2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3))+((2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3)/2^(1/3))+3))/6)+((sqrt((3*2^(1/3)/(2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3))-((2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3)/2^(1/3))+6-48/(sqrt(3)*sqrt(3*((-3*2^(1/3)/(2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3))+((2*(2*sqrt(13)+5))^(1/3)/2^(1/3))+3)))))/2)-(1/2)),tcollect((-sqrt(-12*cos(2*x)+26*cos(3*x)+40*cos(4*x)+30*cos(5*x)+12*cos(6*x)+2*cos(7*x)-58*cos(x)-42*sin(2*x)-26*sin(3*x)-2*sin(4*x)+14*sin(5*x)+14*sin(6*x)+6*sin(7*x)+sin(8*x)-34*sin(x)-40)*y*sin(x)-sqrt(-12*cos(2*x)+26*cos(3*x)+40*cos(4*x)+30*cos(5*x)+12*cos(6*x)+2*cos(7*x)-58*cos(x)-42*sin(2*x)-26*sin(3*x)-2*sin(4*x)+14*sin(5*x)+14*sin(6*x)+6*sin(7*x)+sin(8*x)-34*sin(x)-40)*y+8*y*cos(x)^5-8*y*cos(x)^4*sin(x)-8*y*cos(x)^4-32*y*cos(x)^3*sin(x)-40*y*cos(x)^3-8*y*cos(x)^2*sin(x)-8*y*cos(x)^2+16*y*cos(x)*sin(x)+16*y*cos(x))/(16*cos(x)^5+16*cos(x)^4-32*cos(x)^3*sin(x)-32*cos(x)^3-32*cos(x)^2*sin(x)-32*cos(x)^2)), these are slow or stuck or restarted on the hp prime physical machine. The above is the problem I found.Off-topic, it is a Christmas in the West. As a Chinese, I hope everyone is happy Christmas. We are also doing activities here to celebrate the preparation of Christmas, although the relationship between China and the West is very delicate.sorry my poor english

Hi guy,

"The lack of handling root functions in hp prime" is definitely not a good title for this subject. the hp prime can handle root functions of course, but not all of them like every calculator or mathematics software.

A calculator or a software can't solve all subjects like a human can do, but it can help to do lengthy computations for example.

Everyone should be aware that calculators and apps are simply helps to solve problems.

[Komanguy]

(12-30-2018 12:10 PM)John P Wrote:  Hard to argue with your point. This is the convenience of calc, but with good convertible you can have a stylus and that replaces pencil and paper, your book could be pdf or epub format and you have all you need in one package always with you. If you need serious work you just ALT+TAB and you go. I think the VC would do for replacing the physical calc.
Cheers.

Of course, I have my pdf on my 13" iPad but I prefer to use paper notebook. The writing area is bigger and more comfortable. But the physical calculator is mandatory for me.

[Komanguy]

(12-30-2018 12:07 PM)grsbanks Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 11:31 AM)Komanguy Wrote:  A calculator has hardware keys wich is more comfortable than typing on touchscreen or computer keyboard.
It starts faster, you can have your calculations immediately. You want to study something, you take your paper notebook, your books, your pencil and your calculator and here you go.
Also, your brain works better with sketches, handwriting, instead of typing everything on a computer.

What he said.

But with a big caveat.

Without wanting to over-simplify the situation with sweeping generalizations, this is definitely an age thing. I fall firmly into the category of users described above. I want a physical device with real keys on it and I too think better using a pad and a pencil, which means that a real calculator is what I want to use. Why do I stick with my 41C, which is a machine released 40 years ago? Because it fits my needs without me having to change the way I work most effectively.

However, I can't ignore the up and coming generation of youngsters who prefer to embrace technology to a far greater degree than I do. For these guys, there really is very little point in using a physical device because it's just one more thing to haul around and clutter up the briefcase (for those who still use one).

The calculator's days are numbered now, I have no doubt of that. But isn't that the very reason why there are places like this, the "Museum of HP Calculators?" Even if we can't preserve the physical hardware (many of us here are doing what we can about that in personal collections!), we can at least preserve information about it in the hope that future generations will be inspired to find out what all the fuss was about.

Here’s my study setup:

The biggest ipad for ebooks, though I prefer hard books.
My physical notebook to have bigger working space
My prime for calculations.

I dont like use small portions of screen to read and write on.
It can be weird but I use the notebook because no ipad nor convertible can give me such big space. One space for readings, one for writings, one for calculations.

[John P]

(12-30-2018 01:03 PM)Komanguy Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 12:07 PM)grsbanks Wrote:  What he said.

But with a big caveat.

Without wanting to over-simplify the situation with sweeping generalizations, this is definitely an age thing. I fall firmly into the category of users described above. I want a physical device with real keys on it and I too think better using a pad and a pencil, which means that a real calculator is what I want to use. Why do I stick with my 41C, which is a machine released 40 years ago? Because it fits my needs without me having to change the way I work most effectively.

However, I can't ignore the up and coming generation of youngsters who prefer to embrace technology to a far greater degree than I do. For these guys, there really is very little point in using a physical device because it's just one more thing to haul around and clutter up the briefcase (for those who still use one).

The calculator's days are numbered now, I have no doubt of that. But isn't that the very reason why there are places like this, the "Museum of HP Calculators?" Even if we can't preserve the physical hardware (many of us here are doing what we can about that in personal collections!), we can at least preserve information about it in the hope that future generations will be inspired to find out what all the fuss was about.

Here’s my study setup:

The biggest ipad for ebooks, though I prefer hard books.
My physical notebook to have bigger working space
My prime for calculations.

I dont like use small portions of screen to read and write on.
It can be weird but I use the notebook because no ipad nor convertible can give me such big space. One space for readings, one for writings, one for calculations.

I respect your preferences, nothing wrong with with them. They already have convertibles with 15.6 in. touch screens so tiny spaces are no problem anymore. I thing 2019 will be good year to move on to the next level.
Cheers.

[Komanguy]

(12-30-2018 01:18 PM)John P Wrote:  I respect your preferences, nothing wrong with with them. They already have convertibles with 15.6 in. touch screens so tiny spaces are no problem anymore. I thing 2019 will be good year to move on to the next level.
Cheers.

I know you respect my choices.

But my paper notebook is 20.25 inches, so no 15.6 convertible can compete with. Also 15.6 are 16/9 which are too narrow. If you have to switch windows on such screen, it’s because there’s little room to work comfortably. The best option is to have multiple screens, you can’t carry them easily.

I’m not saying I have the best setup but everyone should be aware of that. It’s better to mix old and new technologies.

[John P]

(12-30-2018 01:37 PM)Komanguy Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 01:18 PM)John P Wrote:  I respect your preferences, nothing wrong with with them. They already have convertibles with 15.6 in. touch screens so tiny spaces are no problem anymore. I thing 2019 will be good year to move on to the next level.
Cheers.

I know you respect my choices.

But my paper notebook is 20.25 inches, so no 15.6 convertible can compete with. Also 15.6 are 16/9 which are too narrow. If you have to switch windows on such screen, it’s because there’s little room to work comfortably. The best option is to have multiple screens, you can’t carry them easily.

I’m not saying I have the best setup but everyone should be aware of that. It’s better to mix old and new technologies.

OK. a 15.6 screen with aspect ratio has dims. ~7.6 x 13.6 in. Convertible you can also use in tablet mode so, you have writing space very close to that of the legal paper format 14 x 8.5 in. and that beats your 20.25 in. paper notebook in many aspects with hands down. As an extra in tablet mode you can scale up or down your handwriting, easily insert some pictures, notes etc., etc. To mention just a few of the negative aspects of your very large paper notebooks: you do not have to carry extra large and heavy bag not to mention the environmental impact your use of the elephant paper notebooks have. Just think about the carbon footprint your leave behind you with the use of so much paper and how many trees have to die to satisfy your 'elephant' paper size needs and uses. I do not see any advantages in sticking to some old habits that in actuality are wastes and nothing else. Yes, traditions are nice and good but they are not so good when they border on excess and waste
Cheers.

[grsbanks]

(12-30-2018 01:03 PM)Komanguy Wrote:  Here’s my study setup:

Mine is similar but there's a lot more junk on my desk, plus about 60 coin cells, as many AAA cells and a pile of about a dozen different calculators! Yes, there is a Prime in the pile (3 Primes, actually) but the machines I reach for most frequently are a 41CX, a 71B that I've just acquired and a DM41L and DM42.

[Komanguy]

(12-30-2018 02:51 PM)John P Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 01:37 PM)Komanguy Wrote:  I know you respect my choices.

But my paper notebook is 20.25 inches, so no 15.6 convertible can compete with. Also 15.6 are 16/9 which are too narrow. If you have to switch windows on such screen, it’s because there’s little room to work comfortably. The best option is to have multiple screens, you can’t carry them easily.

I’m not saying I have the best setup but everyone should be aware of that. It’s better to mix old and new technologies.

OK. a 15.6 screen with aspect ratio has dims. ~7.6 x 13.6 in. Convertible you can also use in tablet mode so, you have writing space very close to that of the legal paper format 14 x 8.5 in. and that beats your 20.25 in. paper notebook in many aspects with hands down. As an extra in tablet mode you can scale up or down your handwriting, easily insert some pictures, notes etc., etc. To mention just a few of the negative aspects of your very large paper notebooks: you do not have to carry extra large and heavy bag not to mention the environmental impact your use of the elephant paper notebooks have. Just think about the carbon footprint your leave behind you with the use of so much paper and how many trees have to die to satisfy your 'elephant' paper size needs and uses. I do not see any advantages in sticking to some old habits that in actuality are wastes and nothing else. Yes, traditions are nice and good but they are not so good when they border on excess and waste
Cheers.

Maybe my notebook is big but it's more comfortable.
Using paper is not a waste since trees are renewable. Finland has been the first paper producer but there's no deforestation on that country. The key is to grow trees.

Electronic devices produces a lot of pollution. You can do somme research on that.

We could debate on the carbon footprint of paper or electronic devices but this thread won't suffice.

[Komanguy]

(12-30-2018 02:54 PM)grsbanks Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 01:03 PM)Komanguy Wrote:  Here’s my study setup:

Mine is similar but there's a lot more junk on my desk, plus about 60 coin cells, as many AAA cells and a pile of about a dozen different calculators! Yes, there is a Prime in the pile (3 Primes, actually) but the machines I reach for most frequently are a 41CX, a 71B that I've just acquired and a DM41L and DM42.

Nice collection! I'll buy an hp 41CX since I'm very familiar with RPN, and it seems to have a great build quality.

[grsbanks]

(12-30-2018 09:59 PM)Komanguy Wrote:  Nice collection! I'll buy an hp 41CX since I'm very familiar with RPN, and it seems to have a great build quality.

That's just the tip of the iceberg

http://techy.horwits.com/2017/07/calcula...ction.html

[John P]

(12-30-2018 09:40 PM)Komanguy Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 02:51 PM)John P Wrote:  OK. a 15.6 screen with aspect ratio has dims. ~7.6 x 13.6 in. Convertible you can also use in tablet mode so, you have writing space very close to that of the legal paper format 14 x 8.5 in. and that beats your 20.25 in. paper notebook in many aspects with hands down. As an extra in tablet mode you can scale up or down your handwriting, easily insert some pictures, notes etc., etc. To mention just a few of the negative aspects of your very large paper notebooks: you do not have to carry extra large and heavy bag not to mention the environmental impact your use of the elephant paper notebooks have. Just think about the carbon footprint your leave behind you with the use of so much paper and how many trees have to die to satisfy your 'elephant' paper size needs and uses. I do not see any advantages in sticking to some old habits that in actuality are wastes and nothing else. Yes, traditions are nice and good but they are not so good when they border on excess and waste
Cheers.

Maybe my notebook is big but it's more comfortable.
Using paper is not a waste since trees are renewable. Finland has been the first paper producer but there's no deforestation on that country. The key is to grow trees.

Electronic devices produces a lot of pollution. You can do somme research on that.

We could debate on the carbon footprint of paper or electronic devices but this thread won't suffice.

Very nice, but you use a lot of paper and a lot of electronics too. I at least with some convertible laptop would eliminate paper and a lot of electronic devices also. So, however you count good energy efficient convertible laptops probably would have less carbon print in total than a lot of paper plus a lot of electronic gadgets. How big the difference would be as of today I do not know, but as the power efficiency of laptops gets better and better every year I think convertible laptops with touch screen and stylus could save a lot of trees and energy, your energy too. Just think how much more you have to eat to have the strength to carry around heavy bags with heavy notebooks and all those extra and duplicating themselves electronic devices. Just kidding a little.
Cheers.

[Komanguy]

(12-30-2018 10:25 PM)John P Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 09:40 PM)Komanguy Wrote:  Maybe my notebook is big but it's more comfortable.
Using paper is not a waste since trees are renewable. Finland has been the first paper producer but there's no deforestation on that country. The key is to grow trees.

Electronic devices produces a lot of pollution. You can do somme research on that.

We could debate on the carbon footprint of paper or electronic devices but this thread won't suffice.

Very nice, but you use a lot of paper and a lot of electronics too. I at least with some convertible laptop would eliminate paper and a lot of electronic devices also. So, however you count good energy efficient convertible laptops probably would have less carbon print in total than a lot of paper plus a lot of electronic gadgets. How big the difference would be as of today I do not know, but as the power efficiency of laptops gets better and better every year I think convertible laptops with touch screen and stylus could save a lot of trees and energy, your energy too. Just think how much more you have to eat to have the strength to carry around heavy bags with heavy notebooks and all those extra and duplicating themselves electronic devices. Just kidding a little.
Cheers.

Trees are renewable. There’s not any issue there.
And carrying a A4 notebook is not a problem too, maybe 300 grams.
?
I used a surface pro 4, great machine but too fragile. I think the surface book 2 15 inch is perfect but too expensive. It’s better than those 16:9 convertibles. It has a bigger screen due to its 3:2 ratio. If you can afford it, don’t hesitate.

[John P]

(12-30-2018 11:08 PM)Komanguy Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 10:25 PM)John P Wrote:  Very nice, but you use a lot of paper and a lot of electronics too. I at least with some convertible laptop would eliminate paper and a lot of electronic devices also. So, however you count good energy efficient convertible laptops probably would have less carbon print in total than a lot of paper plus a lot of electronic gadgets. How big the difference would be as of today I do not know, but as the power efficiency of laptops gets better and better every year I think convertible laptops with touch screen and stylus could save a lot of trees and energy, your energy too. Just think how much more you have to eat to have the strength to carry around heavy bags with heavy notebooks and all those extra and duplicating themselves electronic devices. Just kidding a little.
Cheers.

Trees are renewable. There’s not any issue there.
And carrying a A4 notebook is not a problem too, maybe 300 grams.
?
I used a surface pro 4, great machine but too fragile. I think the surface book 2 15 inch is perfect but too expensive. It’s better than those 16:9 convertibles. It has a bigger screen due to its 3:2 ratio. If you can afford it, don’t hesitate.

Yeah, the screens with asp. ratio 2:3 are good, but there is few laptops with that ratio. I am thinking about Lenovo or Acer, LG is also good I think, if the specs are right and the CPU is twice as fast what I have now. I am looking also for something with discrete GPU GTX 1060 or possibly RTX/GTX 2060 or whatever they call it. I think the 'back to school' season in 2019 could be interesting as far as new convertible laptops are concerned. We will see.
Cheers.