Connecting a keyboard to a HP Prime G2? And other questions.

[TheLastMillennial]

Hi everyone, since this is my first post I'll introduce myself. I'm not new to calculators (I'm more of a Cemetech and Texas Instruments guy) but a few days ago I got my new HP Prime G2.
I got an OTG USB type A to micro USB adapter. I know I can use my OTG USB A to mini USB adapter to connect a keyboard (a wired Logitech K120) to my TI 84 Plus CE so I assumed the same would apply to my Prime. Unfortunately, when I plugged in the adapter and the keyboard, the keyboard had no effect; it just did nothing. I was wondering if someone could tell me if this is even possible, or if I'm doing something incorrect. (Yes, I've tried turning it off and on again )

A few other questions I couldn't find clearly answered:
1. Does the Prime have an app to graph 3D parametric equations like the Nspire and TI 89 do? I can find 2D parametric equations and the regular 3D graphing app, but that only does Z= equations.
2. What's the best IDE for programming on the Prime? Also, where's a good resource for learning the language? Anything like TI BASIC's TI Basic Developer website that even has a command index?
3. Exactly what language(s) does the Prime support? HP says it uses something like Pascal but is it full Pascal or some HP BASIC language? I also saw a topic that mentioned Python but I couldn't figure out if Python was actually supported or if it was a proof of concept.
4. What are the limits of programming this? Can you mess with the testing LEDs? Is USB data transfer supported? How good is the graphics support? I wasn't too impressed with the double buffering that the tunnel demo program showed off, it wasn't nearly as smooth as double buffering on my TI 84 Plus CE. Are there better ways to get smoother graphics?
5. Why do some HP Prime (original) programs not send to the G2? Is it because they're written in some language (like ASM) that the G2 doesn't support?
6. What do you guys suggest I do to my Prime? Any good tips or tricks to help me do things more efficiently?

Unrelated: Why does this site look and feel like it came straight out of the '90s?

[Dave Shaffer]

(02-14-2019 11:19 PM)TheLastMillennial Wrote:  Unrelated: Why does this site look and feel like it came straight out of the '90s?

I suppose among other things, it's because a lot of us come from the 90s (or even a lot earlier: I got my HP 35 in 1973! - and still have it)

[cyrille de brébisson]

Hello

(02-15-2019 01:18 AM)Dave Shaffer Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 11:19 PM)TheLastMillennial Wrote:  Unrelated: Why does this site look and feel like it came straight out of the '90s?

I suppose among other things, it's because a lot of us come from the 90s (or even a lot earlier: I got my HP 35 in 1973! - and still have it)

To some of us, it looks like it comes from the 90s because we like futuristic things :-)

comp.sys.hp48 had such a great user interface!


>USB keyboard
Short answer: No.
Long answer: the keyboard will actually be recognized and enumerated, but no driver were written (sorry, I was otherwise buzzy), so pressing on keys will not do anything. Plus, keyboards are a pain because they are all different. Had primed supported ONE keyboard, it would have been an azerty one:-).

>1. Does the Prime have an app to graph 3D parametric equations
Nope, only Z= ones at the moment

>2. Also, where's a good resource for learning the language?
Here? looking at other's programs, like Han? Build in help actually has quite a lot, including example...

>3. Exactly what language(s) does the Prime support?
We call it PPL for Prime Programming language. Some people compare it to Pascal.. Mostly because it uses begin and end constructs and handles ";" as an instruction separator and not a terminator... But it basically is similar to most other so called 3rd generation languages...
Python is not really supported at this point in time.

>4. What are the limits of programming this?
At the same time and lot of limits, but a lot of things that you can do...
>Can you mess with the testing LEDs?
>Is USB data transfer supported?
Nope

>How good is the graphics support? I wasn't too impressed with the double buffering that the tunnel demo program showed off, it wasn't nearly as smooth as double buffering on my TI 84 Plus CE. Are there better ways to get smoother graphics?

You get 10 graphical objects, one of them being the screen (G0). I do not remember if tunnel uses double buffering or not.

>5. Why do some HP Prime (original) programs not send to the G2?
This is not normal, they should be compatible, assuming that the FW revision are close enough

>6. What do you guys suggest I do to my Prime? Any good tips or tricks to help me do things more efficiently?
Enjoy it :-)


Cyrille

[RMollov]

(02-14-2019 11:19 PM)TheLastMillennial Wrote:  Hi everyone, since this is my first post I'll introduce myself. I'm not new to calculators

This forum has a very obvious section called HP Prime.

[Massimo Gnerucci]

(02-15-2019 07:17 AM)RMollov Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 11:19 PM)TheLastMillennial Wrote:  Hi everyone, since this is my first post I'll introduce myself. I'm not new to calculators

This forum has a very obvious section called HP Prime.

Oh, but that's so '90s! :P

[Jlouis]

(02-15-2019 06:07 AM)cyrille de brébisson Wrote:  To some of us, it looks like it comes from the 90s because we like futuristic things :-)

LOL...I loved that answer!

[Thomas Klemm]

(02-14-2019 11:19 PM)TheLastMillennial Wrote:  Unrelated: Why does this site look and feel like it came straight out of the '90s?

Should we tell him that we write our web-servers in Forth: http://www.1-9-9-1.com/ ?

[pier4r]

(02-15-2019 07:17 AM)RMollov Wrote:  This forum has a very obvious section called HP Prime.

(02-15-2019 07:42 AM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  Oh, but that's so '90s!

A modern comment sounding like yours would be written as "Oof" . And it seems was common in the 80s.

Also judge a site from its contents and the readability of it, not for the fancy graphic effects. Too many "Modern" sites (how do you define modern?) are just giving eye cancer around for near to zero information.
In the meanwhile they ask you to accept or close 34 popups.

[jebem]

(02-15-2019 12:54 PM)pier4r Wrote:  Also judge a site from its contents and the readability of it, not for the fancy graphic effects. Too many "Modern" sites (how do you define modern?) are just giving eye cancer around for near to zero information.
In the meanwhile they ask you to accept or close 34 popups.

Agree.
These days one is evaluated by the looks, not by the essence.

[pier4r]

(02-15-2019 01:45 PM)jebem Wrote:  Agree.
These days one is evaluated by the looks, not by the essence.

We tend to think it is always a modern lack of wisdom that produces such views. But it is not. It is just lack of wisdom, independently from the time. Through history a lot of people made similar observations, of course not only about websites.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_ju..._its_cover

HA! That's beautiful. I did know another variations of it but the latin one is better.
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vestime...tia_mentis

Proverbs really contains a lot of statistically sound observations about life. (and often they contradict each other)

[TheLastMillennial]

Thanks for your reply Cyrille!
I'm a little disappointed, the Prime doesn't have quite as many programming opportunities as the TI 84 Plus CE (which supports 4-5 languages). However I've barely looked at PPL so maybe more languages aren't really needed.
I'm stunned that basic HID devices aren't supported in the OS. I mean, if TI OS could do it on the TI-84 Plus (released in 2003) I would certainly expect a calculator released in 2013 to support it.


Wow, I don't think I've been on a forum that doesn't have a chat box, I suppose that's why this thread can get so far off topic. I don't think I've ever heard of forth. Also, I'd have to argue for modern website designs (not the code behind the designs i.e. the 34 popups that want you to give up your data). Personally, I like the new 'clean' designs that don't have so many buttons everywhere. It makes it a bit easier to learn to navigate, easier to read (though I agree there's a balance with cleanness and information), and it's a lot easier with touch screens when the buttons are larger.

[pier4r]

Well I would argue that HID devices aren't supported because the majority of the target audience won't attach them to the calculator.
As always think about the economical effort (even just in brain cycles) of a feature to develop, support and expand for few individuals.

Dunno why the TI did it, it would be interesting to know. Maybe they did it because teacher can type commands faster. I would personally use a computer to type things, it is clumsy to type with a micro monitor. With the prime and the connectivity kit it is quite quick to control the system.

Also for the programming languages. I would first dive deep in one, without thinking "oh 5 programming languages are better than 3!!!1111eleven". The latter thought it is not how it works. It depends on the problem to solve. This or that language helps to solve this or that problem. In the past I tried nspire and lua (n1), without the TI software program, it is possible to code use lua but it is very clumsy so all the power of the nspire ends up not being used.

For example on the TI 84you can use C, but more often than not I see people debating about the possibilities of using C rather than producing a result with it. If there is no usage, it makes also no difference whether C is there or not.

Thus for comparison, since you mention the ti84, can you show us what you did with that calculator? Links to your work are fine.

n1: http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-8106.html

[TheLastMillennial]

Sure, I recently made a short video about the keyboard.



I understand having more languages isn't necessarily better, it's just nice to have a variety since, like you said, some languages are better for some things than others. For example, if I want to write a quick, dirty program to aid me with my homework, I use TI BASIC. If I want to create a picture utility, I use ICE. If I want to mess around with some Python, I could use it. If I ever get to the point where I need to get really into the details with my projects (and oh boy am I close to that), then C or Assembly is an option.

Also, I think you're underestimating the power of C on the TI 84 Plus CE, there's a huge base around it and tons of programs written in it. Mario? Written in C. Chess or checkers? Written in C. Donkey Kong? Written in C. A completely new language called ICE? The compiler is written in C! It's not just a debate about what you can do with it, it's about what people have already done with it.

pier4 Wrote:Links to your work are fine.

Did I just abuse my link privileges? I just counted like, 7 or 8 links in my post.

One last thing, is there a good IDE for PPL or one that you would suggest using beside the HP Connect software?

[Tyann]

Bonjour et bienvenu sur ce forum
La Prime ne peut pas être programmée en assembleur ou en C officiellement et je suis d'accord avec vous c'est plutôt dommage car la possibilité de créer ses propres applications de facon native aurait permis de faire de belles choses.
Cependant le langage PPL de haut niveau intégré surpassent très largement celui des autres machines TI ou Casio.
Il donne accès à beaucoup de ressources de la machine et la vitesse d'exécution est très grande (et encore plus sur la G2).
Quelques exemples : vous pouvez faire de l'autoprogrammation, vous pouvez gérer entièrement l'écran tactile , intégrer des fichiers dans vos applications et les possibilités graphiques sont importantes (scrolling, zoom, rotation).
Pour ce qui est du clavier, vous pouvez travailler sur l'émulateur avec le clavier PC et transférer très facilement votre travail vers la machine physique.


Hello and welcome on this forum
The Premium can not be programmed in Assembler or C officially and I agree with you it's rather a shame because the ability to create your own applications in native way would have made things beautiful.
However, the built-in high-level PPL language far outperforms other TI or Casio machines.
It gives access to a lot of machine resources and the speed of execution is very large (and even more so on the G2).
Some examples: you can do self-programming, you can fully manage the touch screen, integrate files in your applications and the graphical possibilities are important (scrolling, zoom, rotation).
As for the keyboard, you can work on the emulator with the PC keyboard and easily transfer your work to the physical machine.

PS:Ce n'est l'avis que d'un petit programmeur amateur qui s'amuse beaucoup avec cette machine.
This is the opinion of a small amateur programmer who enjoys a lot with this machine.

[John Keith]

(02-16-2019 07:03 AM)Tyann Wrote:  The Premium can not be programmed in Assembler or C...

Apparently Google Translate's English isn't that great either.

[grsbanks]

(02-16-2019 04:55 PM)John Keith Wrote:  

(02-16-2019 07:03 AM)Tyann Wrote:  The Premium can not be programmed in Assembler or C...

Apparently Google Translate's English isn't that great either.

Google Translate doesn't grok context, by the looks of it

"Prime" in French does mean "premium" if you're talking about your insurance premium (prime d'assurance)...

[Guenter Schink]

(02-14-2019 11:19 PM)TheLastMillennial Wrote:  2. What's the best IDE for programming on the Prime?

Have a look here. Notepad++ at least gives you some support. You'll have to do some copy&paste between the connectivity pack editor and Notepad++ though since there is no link between those two.
HTH Günter

[pier4r]

(02-16-2019 03:45 AM)TheLastMillennial Wrote:   The compiler is written in C! It's not just a debate about what you can do with it, it's about what people have already done with it.

That some people have done great things in C for calculators is not doubt. Like tichess for the ti89 (I use it as casual sparring partner) or newRPL on the 50g or C.Basic for the 9860 casio series.

My point was more from experience. I experienced that size(people doing results with C/assembly) is much smaller than size(people debating the usage of C/assembly). So the likelihood that a person says "yeah but I wish there were C/assembly, without it there is not much I can do" but then not producing any result even with those tools there is high. I only talk from experience.

Quote:I just counted like, 7 or 8 links in my post.

While you posted nice stuff from cemetech (thanks for sharing!) none of those is your work. You reviewed some of them, but you didn't do them as far as I can tell.
I asked about your works not your reviews. Of course, if you want to share.

For the IDE. Notepad++ plus UDL extensions, as Günther said, help a lot. Then from there copy and paste in the connectivity kit. You can expand the UDL with ease (and then you can share it as well).

I use notepad++ plus UDL extension also for user RPL on the 50g. Here: https://app.assembla.com/spaces/various-...er/notepad++

[Carsen]

(02-14-2019 11:19 PM)TheLastMillennial Wrote:  I got an OTG USB type A to micro USB adapter. I know I can use my OTG USB A to mini USB adapter to connect a keyboard (a wired Logitech K120) to my TI 84 Plus CE so I assumed the same would apply to my Prime.

May I ask why you want to connect a keyboard to the Prime?

[StephenG1CMZ]

(02-16-2019 10:58 PM)Carsen Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 11:19 PM)TheLastMillennial Wrote:  I got an OTG USB type A to micro USB adapter. I know I can use my OTG USB A to mini USB adapter to connect a keyboard (a wired Logitech K120) to my TI 84 Plus CE so I assumed the same would apply to my Prime.

May I ask why you want to connect a keyboard to the Prime?

I cannot speak for the OP, but for me it is because it has no voice input
It would be convenient for the QWERTY layout when entering data/help text...I guess the battery life would be better than using a laptop.