CMT71-64E HP-71b eprom module questions

[coitboy2000]

Hi all

Does anyone have any experience opeining up these modules, removing the eprom and then erasing/writing new data to them ? I understand there is a purpose built eprom programmer that is very rare and therefore not an option. Another forum user has kindly offered to write them for me but I was trying to avoid burdening someone else, especially difficult given I am a half a world away in Australia.

I would love to know what these look like when pulled apart and what eprom is installed. Perhaps it could be desoldered and written with a newer usb eprom programmer?

Any comments appreciated

Cheers

Richard

[Sylvain Cote]

Hello Richard,
Erasing them is the same as erasing any other EPROMs, you need an ultra-violet light box.
I alway used my CMT-71-P01 EPROM burner for these modules, if you change your mind I can also burn your data/programs to your EPROMs.
I have never reverse engineered this system (modules & burner) but like everything else, given time and effort it can be done.
Sylvain

[coitboy2000]

Thanks for the offer Sylvain. Much appreciated. I wasnt aware you has a programmer after trolling all the old relevant posts.

Can I ask what you have been able to flash onto the CMT eproms ? Are there any of the official rom modules that can't be placed on one of these 64k Eproms ? I guess it largely comes down to size ?

Richard

[rprosperi]

(06-05-2019 01:10 PM)coitboy2000 Wrote:  Thanks for the offer Sylvain. Much appreciated. I wasnt aware you has a programmer after trolling all the old relevant posts.

Can I ask what you have been able to flash onto the CMT eproms ? Are there any of the official rom modules that can't be placed on one of these 64k Eproms ? I guess it largely comes down to size ?

Richard

All of the HP ROMs can be copied EXCEPT the FORTH/Assembler ROM and 41 Translator ROM, as they also include a hard-addressed ROM which requires additional module pins which are not available in the EPROM modules.

The burners are quite rare, but several of us have them and are willing to burn modules for fellow 71 addicts.

Regarding your original question about disassembling the modules, I'm sure someone has succeeded as some point, though I can't say for certain, but I have heard of more than one instance of modules being damaged in the attempt, so it may be best to have them burned, given the rarity and cost of the modules.

[RamLab]

I did what you proposed, open the CMT 64K Module, desolder the 27C512 in PLCC 32, tried to read/program in a PLCC 32 Socket,
but that failed due to contact issues.
So I soldered it with wires to a DIL socket. I could read the EEprom,
Erase it, but re-programming failed, as did the second one. Since I could not easily get 27C512 chips, I bought a couple of
T1-74 Memory Modules...., and used their Atmel 27C512, and could program them. Soldered a PLCC 32 socket on the CMT module, put the Atmel in it,
and it did work !! The second one I did I continued to have contact problems,
so I soldered the Atmel direct to the CMT, it did work.
After some time, it failed, as did the one in the socket, if I do a CAT on the port, the Display turns blank.
In short, too much work for no result.

Peter

[coitboy2000]

Thanks Peter. I think you have convinced me its not a good idea.

[dmh]

I've just come into possession of one of these modules and I'm in Australia also.

It's labelled "SURVROM V1.0" so not useful to me as is.

Did you find anyone locally who could program for you?

Who's the next closest outside of Australia who would do this? :-)

What should I get loaded onto this (given I have a FRAM71B and a MultiMod already)?

TIA, dmh

[Dave Frederickson]

(04-27-2021 06:01 AM)dmh Wrote:  I've just come into possession of one of these modules and I'm in Australia also.

It's labelled "SURVROM V1.0" so not useful to me as is.

Did you find anyone locally who could program for you?

Who's the next closest outside of Australia who would do this? :-)

What should I get loaded onto this (given I have a FRAM71B and a MultiMod already)?

TIA, dmh

I've programmed several EPROM's for Forum members over the years and I'm located in Southern California.

I don't see a module in HP-Collection's database with that label. Is it 32k or 64k?

As far as what to put on the EPROM, here are some suggestions.
https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-9635.html

Dave

[dmh]

(04-27-2021 02:23 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  I've programmed several EPROM's for Forum members over the years and I'm located in Southern California.

I don't see a module in HP-Collection's database with that label. Is it 32k or 64k?

As far as what to put on the EPROM, here are some suggestions.
https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-9635.html

Dave

Thank you for the generous offer Dave :-)

Will need to work out postage to and from you.

I did search the forums first but just searched for the module and didn't find the thread above.

It's a 64k module. So could this be a locally developed survey ROM then maybe? Any commands to help identify it?

[Dave Frederickson]

(04-28-2021 01:14 AM)dmh Wrote:  It's a 64k module. So could this be a locally developed survey ROM then maybe? Any commands to help identify it?

You can try VER$, CAT the port with the EPROM, or list a file on the EPROM.

[dmh]

(04-28-2021 02:12 AM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  

(04-28-2021 01:14 AM)dmh Wrote:  It's a 64k module. So could this be a locally developed survey ROM then maybe? Any commands to help identify it?

You can try VER$, CAT the port with the EPROM, or list a file on the EPROM.

Ok, it looks like it may have already been reprogrammed as there are some utilities that I've seen listed elsewhere unless these are commonly loaded on application ROMs too.

Contents are:

BKEY KEY
SUBPROGS BASIC
CALCLEX LEX
CLOCKDSP LEX
CONVERT LEX
CUSTUTIL LEX
RPN BIN
RPNLEX LEX
STKLEX LEX
STRINGLX LEX
TEXTUTIL LEX
UNPRIV LEX
TEST32KE LEX
COORD BASIC
EPRMCPY LEX
EPRMSTWR LEX
CLONE BASIC

[Dave Frederickson]

(04-28-2021 03:28 AM)dmh Wrote:  

(04-28-2021 02:12 AM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  You can try VER$, CAT the port with the EPROM, or list a file on the EPROM.

Ok, it looks like it may have already been reprogrammed as there are some utilities that I've seen listed elsewhere unless these are commonly loaded on application ROMs too.

Contents are:

BKEY KEY
SUBPROGS BASIC
CALCLEX LEX
CLOCKDSP LEX
CONVERT LEX
CUSTUTIL LEX
RPN BIN
RPNLEX LEX
STKLEX LEX
STRINGLX LEX
TEXTUTIL LEX
UNPRIV LEX
TEST32KE LEX
COORD BASIC
EPRMCPY LEX
EPRMSTWR LEX
CLONE BASIC

Please double-check the size using SHOWPORT. It's suspicious that the 32k test program would be on a 64k EPROM.

[dmh]

(04-28-2021 05:57 AM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  

(04-28-2021 03:28 AM)dmh Wrote:  Ok, it looks like it may have already been reprogrammed as there are some utilities that I've seen listed elsewhere unless these are commonly loaded on application ROMs too.

Contents are:

BKEY KEY
SUBPROGS BASIC
CALCLEX LEX
CLOCKDSP LEX
CONVERT LEX
CUSTUTIL LEX
RPN BIN
RPNLEX LEX
STKLEX LEX
STRINGLX LEX
TEXTUTIL LEX
UNPRIV LEX
TEST32KE LEX
COORD BASIC
EPRMCPY LEX
EPRMSTWR LEX
CLONE BASIC

Please double-check the size using SHOWPORT. It's suspicious that the 32k test program would be on a 64k EPROM.

I think I can see 64k scroll past rapidly but can't seem to scroll back or only show port 1. I'm pretty new to the 71b so if you can advise how to scroll back or only show one port (I unsuccessfully tried various things).

Thanks

[Dave Frederickson]

(04-28-2021 07:02 AM)dmh Wrote:  

(04-28-2021 05:57 AM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  Please double-check the size using SHOWPORT. It's suspicious that the 32k test program would be on a 64k EPROM.

I think I can see 64k scroll past rapidly but can't seem to scroll back or only show port 1. I'm pretty new to the 71b so if you can advise how to scroll back or only show one port (I unsuccessfully tried various things).

Thanks

Hmmm, you have a FRAM71B and a MultiMod. What about a PIL-Box? Every power user needs a PIL-Box. I usually set my DISPLAYIS to the ILPer printer so I can catch everything. Did I mention that the FRAM71 Tool Kit is geared toward the PIL-Box?

In the mean time, there's another recent thread discussing SCROLL and DELAY. I believe if you fiddle with those settings you can get SHOWPORT to pause after each line.

Dave

[KimH]

(04-28-2021 07:02 AM)dmh Wrote:  

(04-28-2021 05:57 AM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  Please double-check the size using SHOWPORT. It's suspicious that the 32k test program would be on a 64k EPROM.

I think I can see 64k scroll past rapidly but can't seem to scroll back or only show port 1. I'm pretty new to the 71b so if you can advise how to scroll back or only show one port (I unsuccessfully tried various things).

Thanks

The easiest way is to set DELAY 2 (all displayed messages are "paused" for 2 seconds) or whatever you fancy.

TEST32KE LEX is what CMT had on the module from Factory (64k modules would have TEST64KE), as are the two with EPRM*** and the CLONE program.

The command in TEST32KE is ROMTST which will tell you if the ROM is OK or not OK.

If your Google CMT71-P01 you will get to know a bit more about the EPROM Burner and the programs just mentioned

Add: The reason I know a bit about this - without owning a ROM-Burner, is that I have spent some time understanding the EPROM and Burner. I have an open agreement to meet an owner of a working CMT71-P01 in Switzerland as soon as the C-19 pandemic tapers off...

[dmh]

(04-28-2021 07:58 AM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  

(04-28-2021 07:02 AM)dmh Wrote:  I think I can see 64k scroll past rapidly but can't seem to scroll back or only show port 1. I'm pretty new to the 71b so if you can advise how to scroll back or only show one port (I unsuccessfully tried various things).

Thanks

Hmmm, you have a FRAM71B and a MultiMod. What about a PIL-Box? Every power user needs a PIL-Box. I usually set my DISPLAYIS to the ILPer printer so I can catch everything. Did I mention that the FRAM71 Tool Kit is geared toward the PIL-Box?

In the mean time, there's another recent thread discussing SCROLL and DELAY. I believe if you fiddle with those settings you can get SHOWPORT to pause after each line.

Dave

All recent acquisitions and was hoping to get a PIL Box but it’s not looking good due to the pandemic :-(.

Thanks for the tips!

[dmh]

(04-28-2021 08:02 AM)KimH Wrote:  

(04-28-2021 07:02 AM)dmh Wrote:  I think I can see 64k scroll past rapidly but can't seem to scroll back or only show port 1. I'm pretty new to the 71b so if you can advise how to scroll back or only show one port (I unsuccessfully tried various things).

Thanks

The easiest way is to set DELAY 2 (all displayed messages are "paused" for 2 seconds) or whatever you fancy.

TEST32KE LEX is what CMT had on the module from Factory (64k modules would have TEST64KE), as are the two with EPRM*** and the CLONE program.

The command in TEST32KE is ROMTST which will tell you if the ROM is OK or not OK.

If your Google CMT71-P01 you will get to know a bit more about the EPROM Burner and the programs just mentioned

Thanks!

I browsed through the online manuals but they’re huge and not searchable so it’s like finding a needle in a haystack!

[dmh]

(04-28-2021 08:02 AM)KimH Wrote:  

(04-28-2021 07:02 AM)dmh Wrote:  I think I can see 64k scroll past rapidly but can't seem to scroll back or only show port 1. I'm pretty new to the 71b so if you can advise how to scroll back or only show one port (I unsuccessfully tried various things).

Thanks

The easiest way is to set DELAY 2 (all displayed messages are "paused" for 2 seconds) or whatever you fancy.

TEST32KE LEX is what CMT had on the module from Factory (64k modules would have TEST64KE), as are the two with EPRM*** and the CLONE program.

The command in TEST32KE is ROMTST which will tell you if the ROM is OK or not OK.

If your Google CMT71-P01 you will get to know a bit more about the EPROM Burner and the programs just mentioned

Add: The reason I know a bit about this - without owning a ROM-Burner, is that I have spent some time understanding the EPROM and Burner. I have an open agreement to meet an owner of a working CMT71-P01 in Switzerland as soon as the C-19 pandemic tapers off...

So how many burners were made and are still in service I wonder?

Ok, so SHOWPORT shows the module is 64k but ROMTST says 'BAD ROM'. I've tried a few commands and they appear to work.

Could this be because it's the wrong test (the 32k test is loaded on a 64k module)?

[KimH]

(04-28-2021 09:41 AM)dmh Wrote:  

(04-28-2021 08:02 AM)KimH Wrote:  The easiest way is to set DELAY 2 (all displayed messages are "paused" for 2 seconds) or whatever you fancy.

TEST32KE LEX is what CMT had on the module from Factory (64k modules would have TEST64KE), as are the two with EPRM*** and the CLONE program.

The command in TEST32KE is ROMTST which will tell you if the ROM is OK or not OK.

If your Google CMT71-P01 you will get to know a bit more about the EPROM Burner and the programs just mentioned

Add: The reason I know a bit about this - without owning a ROM-Burner, is that I have spent some time understanding the EPROM and Burner. I have an open agreement to meet an owner of a working CMT71-P01 in Switzerland as soon as the C-19 pandemic tapers off...

So how many burners were made and are still in service I wonder?

Ok, so SHOWPORT shows the module is 64k but ROMTST says 'BAD ROM'. I've tried a few commands and they appear to work.

Could this be because it's the wrong test (the 32k test is loaded on a 64k module)?

I don't think there were many built - doubt anyone knows. AFAIK there are about 6-7 folks (all active in this forum) who has one which works.

I am almost certain the BAD comes from the size OR that the ROM checksum generated originally by PTGENC$, is wrong or never generated before the burn.

If you found the document, look at page 15

What you can try is the command - DISP PTSIZE$ (':PORT(n)') - 32k would give h10000 or double that with 64K

[dmh]

(04-28-2021 11:47 AM)KimH Wrote:  

(04-28-2021 09:41 AM)dmh Wrote:  So how many burners were made and are still in service I wonder?

Ok, so SHOWPORT shows the module is 64k but ROMTST says 'BAD ROM'. I've tried a few commands and they appear to work.

Could this be because it's the wrong test (the 32k test is loaded on a 64k module)?

I don't think there were many built - doubt anyone knows. AFAIK there are about 6-7 folks (all active in this forum) who has one which works.

I am almost certain the BAD comes from the size OR that the ROM checksum generated originally by PTGENC$, is wrong or never generated before the burn.

If you found the document, look at page 15

What you can try is the command - DISP PTSIZE$ (':PORT(n)') - 32k would give h10000 or double that with 64K

I couldn't find the document you mentioned but I ran the command above and got h20000 so it appears it is a 64k EPROM with the 32k test program.

Is there a way of manually loading the 64k test?