Need help for some HP Prime calculus/functions

[Devil69]

(sorry in advance if my english is bad, I'll try my best to explain my issue)

Hi forum,

I've received few days ago the HP prime G2 calculator and I'm really happy with that because it has almost all the functions I need. The problem is that I'm a newbie in graphic calculators and even after reading 600 pages of HP user guide I still can't solve 2 issues:

- Solving trigonometrical inequations, I'm using the solve() function in CAS and have always the same problem: "Unable to find numeric values solving equation. For trigonometric equations this may be solved using asumptions, e.g. assume(x>-pi && x<pi) error: Bad Argument Value"

-The second issue is with the Explorer: while reading the guide I noticed that they show a trigonometrical function with pi abcissa (see image under):


However, after changing my setting many times I have always the same result:


I remind you that I have the latest Hp prime G2 with the latest firmware, so I really don't understand why can't get access to these buttons/ abcissa.

Thank you

[Aries]

Press "Apps" key and select "Trig Explorer" in order to open the Trig Explorer app, you will be shown the equation at the top and the graph below.
Best,

Aries

[Devil69]

(12-19-2019 03:04 PM)Aries Wrote:  Press "Apps" key and select "Trig Explorer" in order to open the Trig Explorer app, you will be shown the equation at the top and the graph below.
Best,

Aries

Hi,

I've already done that, it shows me the graphic but without the pi abcissa and buttons on the screen and idk why

Thanks

[Joe Horn]

Your large screen shot is from a very old and obsolete version of the User Guide. It depicts the now-deprecated Trig Explorer in obsolete old firmware versions of Prime. All the separate explorer apps have been rolled into a single "Explorer" app. What you need is Edition 3 of the User Guide (December 2017). It shows correct screen shots from the new Explorer / Trig, which does not label the x and y axes like the former Trig Explorer app did.

Disclaimer: I *think* the above is correct, but if it's not, somebody here will soon correct me, for which I thank them in advance.

[rprosperi]

You can find the latest manual here:

"ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/calculators/Prime/Documentation/Calculator/EN/User_Guide_EN_2018_01_12_1.pdf"

Copy the link inside the quotes to your browser address bar (do not include the quotes).

Forum software prevents inserting a clickable link, so you have to use the copy/paste method.

Hint: I'd bet Joe is right...

[toml_12953]

(12-20-2019 03:42 AM)rprosperi Wrote:  You can find the latest manual here:

"ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/calculators/Prime/Documentation/Calculator/EN/User_Guide_EN_2018_01_12_1.pdf"

Forum software prevents inserting a clickable link, so you have to use the copy/paste method.

This seems to work on my system:

ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/calculators/Prime/D...1_12_1.pdf

[Devil69]

(12-20-2019 12:32 AM)Joe Horn Wrote:  Your large screen shot is from a very old and obsolete version of the User Guide. It depicts the now-deprecated Trig Explorer in obsolete old firmware versions of Prime. All the separate explorer apps have been rolled into a single "Explorer" app. What you need is Edition 3 of the User Guide (December 2017). It shows correct screen shots from the new Explorer / Trig, which does not label the x and y axes like the former Trig Explorer app did.

Disclaimer: I *think* the above is correct, but if it's not, somebody here will soon correct me, for which I thank them in advance.

New version seems to be a downgrade to me :/

Thanks anyway for your answer I appreciate it

[toml_12953]

(12-20-2019 09:33 AM)Devil69 Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 12:32 AM)Joe Horn Wrote:  Your large screen shot is from a very old and obsolete version of the User Guide. It depicts the now-deprecated Trig Explorer in obsolete old firmware versions of Prime. All the separate explorer apps have been rolled into a single "Explorer" app. What you need is Edition 3 of the User Guide (December 2017). It shows correct screen shots from the new Explorer / Trig, which does not label the x and y axes like the former Trig Explorer app did.

Disclaimer: I *think* the above is correct, but if it's not, somebody here will soon correct me, for which I thank them in advance.

New version seems to be a downgrade to me :/

Thanks anyway for your answer I appreciate it

On my G2, I get this in Trig Explorer 3:

[toml_12953]

(12-20-2019 12:32 AM)Joe Horn Wrote:  Your large screen shot is from a very old and obsolete version of the User Guide. It depicts the now-deprecated Trig Explorer in obsolete old firmware versions of Prime. All the separate explorer apps have been rolled into a single "Explorer" app. What you need is Edition 3 of the User Guide (December 2017). It shows correct screen shots from the new Explorer / Trig, which does not label the x and y axes like the former Trig Explorer app did.

Disclaimer: I *think* the above is correct, but if it's not, somebody here will soon correct me, for which I thank them in advance.

When I start Explorer on my G2, all I get is a list of types of graphs (Linear, Quadratic, Cubic, etc.)

[rprosperi]

(12-20-2019 05:58 AM)toml_12953 Wrote:  This seems to work on my system:

ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/calculators/Prime/D...1_12_1.pdf

Quite right.

It seems something has changed, since the MyBB system as configured here would never allow this in the past, it always automatically changed the leading ftp:// to http://, thus mangling the links.

Good to know, thanks for trying again and posting Tom.

[Joe Horn]

(12-20-2019 01:22 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  On my G2, I get this in Trig Explorer 3...

There is no such app as "Trig Explorer 3". If you have one, you are either running a very old firmware version, or it's an artifact left over after upgrading your firmware. It's a ghost app, haunting your Prime. Ignore it; it's not supported any more. To exorcise it, upgrade your firmware and/or clear your Prime's memory and start fresh.

(12-20-2019 01:29 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  When I start Explorer on my G2, all I get is a list of types of graphs (Linear, Quadratic, Cubic, etc.)

Correct. After selecting "Trigonometric", press the Plot key to see the Explorer / Trig in Plot view... as explained in the User Guide.

[Devil69]

(12-20-2019 08:28 PM)Joe Horn Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 01:22 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  On my G2, I get this in Trig Explorer 3...

There is no such app as "Trig Explorer 3". If you have one, you are either running a very old firmware version, or it's an artifact left over after upgrading your firmware. It's a ghost app, haunting your Prime. Ignore it; it's not supported any more. To exorcise it, upgrade your firmware and/or clear your Prime's memory and start fresh.

(12-20-2019 01:29 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  When I start Explorer on my G2, all I get is a list of types of graphs (Linear, Quadratic, Cubic, etc.)

Correct. After selecting "Trigonometric", press the Plot key to see the Explorer / Trig in Plot view... as explained in the User Guide.

It's kinda sad the G2 specs are really good but the software support isnt much. I hope HP will fix these things and integer much intuitive OS (like on the CX CAS ones from TI).

Also nobody can help me with trig inequations?

Thanks

[Tim Wessman]

(12-21-2019 01:39 AM)Devil69 Wrote:  Also nobody can help me with trig inequations?

Have you looked at the new explorer app at all? It is much more capable and better then the old one by far in nearly every way... About the only thing you dont have is the "pi/2" notation. Other then that, it is more interactive, handles more forms of trigonometrics, and is actually useful for learning and doing quite a few things.

It does more advanced translations, simplifications, handles forms, etc. What are you wanting still?

Note, it you really do still want the old one, someone can post a copy of it for you to load. It will still function. Seriously though, the new one is quite a bit nicer.


The nspire OS is a desktop application packaged into a calculator. It is not a good "calculator" and there is a reason the sales on it have been declining since the 2nd/3rd year when they peaked. I think the best review I ever saw was someone on amazon who said "It does a whole ton, but I would never want to take a complicated timed test with it because everything just takes so damn long to do!"

[Devil69]

(12-21-2019 06:23 AM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  

(12-21-2019 01:39 AM)Devil69 Wrote:  Also nobody can help me with trig inequations?

Have you looked at the new explorer app at all? It is much more capable and better then the old one by far in nearly every way... About the only thing you dont have is the "pi/2" notation. Other then that, it is more interactive, handles more forms of trigonometrics, and is actually useful for learning and doing quite a few things.

It does more advanced translations, simplifications, handles forms, etc. What are you wanting still?

Note, it you really do still want the old one, someone can post a copy of it for you to load. It will still function. Seriously though, the new one is quite a bit nicer.

Thanks for your answer and yeah I looked it's quite complete besides the pi notations.

And concerning HP prime OS I didn't say it was poor in functionalities but just saying it's frustrating that I can't execute certain secondary school level operations (like trig inequations on CAS, or maybe it could handle this but idk how to write it correctly on HP)

Quote:The nspire OS is a desktop application packaged into a calculator. It is not a good "calculator" and there is a reason the sales on it have been declining since the 2nd/3rd year when they peaked. I think the best review I ever saw was someone on amazon who said "It does a whole ton, but I would never want to take a complicated timed test with it because everything just takes so damn long to do!"

I agree with you HP prime interface is made to do things faster

[CyberAngel]

(12-21-2019 07:14 PM)Devil69 Wrote:  

(12-21-2019 06:23 AM)Tim Wessman Wrote:  Have you looked at the new explorer app at all? It is much more capable and better then the old one by far in nearly every way... About the only thing you dont have is the "pi/2" notation. Other then that, it is more interactive, handles more forms of trigonometrics, and is actually useful for learning and doing quite a few things.

It does more advanced translations, simplifications, handles forms, etc. What are you wanting still?

Note, it you really do still want the old one, someone can post a copy of it for you to load. It will still function. Seriously though, the new one is quite a bit nicer.

Thanks for your answer and yeah I looked it's quite complete besides the pi notations.

And concerning HP prime OS I didn't say it was poor in functionalities but just saying it's frustrating that I can't execute certain secondary school level operations (like trig inequations on CAS, or maybe it could handle this but idk how to write it correctly on HP)

Quote:The nspire OS is a desktop application packaged into a calculator. It is not a good "calculator" and there is a reason the sales on it have been declining since the 2nd/3rd year when they peaked. I think the best review I ever saw was someone on amazon who said "It does a whole ton, but I would never want to take a complicated timed test with it because everything just takes so damn long to do!"

I agree with you HP prime interface is made to do things faster

The hardware is nice and fast - yet I want a HP Prime + (with a SD 865)

[Nigel (UK)]

(12-21-2019 01:39 AM)Devil69 Wrote:  ...

Also nobody can help me with trig inequations?

Thanks

I'll have a go!

If I try to solve (for example) \(\sin(x)>\frac12\) in CAS mode on the Prime, I do indeed get the error message given in your first post. But if I enter

Code:

assume(x>=-pi && x<pi)

first, I get the correct answer -
\( \left\{x>{\pi\over 6}\;{\rm and}\; x<{5\pi\over 6}\right\}\).

It seems that when you are solving a trig inequality you must specify the range in which solutions must lie. You can't leave this unspecified, as you can for an equation. There is probably some good reason for this which I can't think of at the moment!

Look up the commands assume, about, and purge in the manual or in the Help system for more information.

Hope this helps!

Nigel (UK)

[Devil69]

(12-22-2019 06:09 PM)Nigel (UK) Wrote:  

(12-21-2019 01:39 AM)Devil69 Wrote:  ...

Also nobody can help me with trig inequations?

Thanks

I'll have a go!

If I try to solve (for example) \(\sin(x)>\frac12\) in CAS mode on the Prime, I do indeed get the error message given in your first post. But if I enter

Code:

assume(x>=-pi && x<pi)

first, I get the correct answer -
\( \left\{x>{\pi\over 6}\;{\rm and}\; x<{5\pi\over 6}\right\}\).

It seems that when you are solving a trig inequality you must specify the range in which solutions must lie. You can't leave this unspecified, as you can for an equation. There is probably some good reason for this which I can't think of at the moment!

Look up the commands assume, about, and purge in the manual or in the Help system for more information.

Hope this helps!

Nigel (UK)

Hi Nigel thank you very much I followed your instructions and it finally worked!
I think HP should add the variable "k" for trig (in)equations in their future update to do these operations without assume() function so that the answer looks like this:
x>π/6+2kπ and x<5π/6+2kπ, k∈ℤ

[toml_12953]

(12-20-2019 08:28 PM)Joe Horn Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 01:22 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  On my G2, I get this in Trig Explorer 3...

There is no such app as "Trig Explorer 3". If you have one, you are either running a very old firmware version, or it's an artifact left over after upgrading your firmware. It's a ghost app, haunting your Prime. Ignore it; it's not supported any more. To exorcise it, upgrade your firmware and/or clear your Prime's memory and start fresh.

(12-20-2019 01:29 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  When I start Explorer on my G2, all I get is a list of types of graphs (Linear, Quadratic, Cubic, etc.)

Correct. After selecting "Trigonometric", press the Plot key to see the Explorer / Trig in Plot view... as explained in the User Guide.

All of my Primes (HW A, two HW C (old and new keyboard) and D) had Trig Explorer 2 and 3 on them. I deleted all of them. Am I the only one who ended up with multiple Explorers?

[CyberAngel]

(12-22-2019 07:47 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 08:28 PM)Joe Horn Wrote:  There is no such app as "Trig Explorer 3". If you have one, you are either running a very old firmware version, or it's an artifact left over after upgrading your firmware. It's a ghost app, haunting your Prime. Ignore it; it's not supported any more. To exorcise it, upgrade your firmware and/or clear your Prime's memory and start fresh.


Correct. After selecting "Trigonometric", press the Plot key to see the Explorer / Trig in Plot view... as explained in the User Guide.

All of my Primes (HW A, two HW C (old and new keyboard) and D) had Trig Explorer 2 and 3 on them. I deleted all of them. Am I the only one who ended up with multiple Explorers?

Yes, yes you are--- ;-)

[Jacob Wall]

(12-22-2019 04:20 PM)CyberAngel Wrote:  The hardware is nice and fast - yet I want a HP Prime + (with a SD 865)

I would be happy with MicroSD, it's fast enough for everything else I need to do with it. Maybe exam mode could disable the extended memory.