What would you like to see in a future HP Prime II? (HP Prime², HP Prime 2X)

[Dands]

IF HP was to release a totally new model, what would you like to see?

I'd love to see a completely redesigned system, new keyboard layout, better connectivity, bigger and better screen, new apps and most importantly: better phasor notation (polar) capabilities for power engineers.

Let's discuss and maybe give them some ideas!

[Solver]

(04-06-2020 02:42 PM)Dands Wrote:  IF HP was to release a totally new model, what would you like to see?

I'd love to see a completely redesigned system, new keyboard layout, better connectivity, bigger screen and new apps.

Let's discuss and maybe give them some ideas!

Quick disclaimer: I'm not an expert at all. Just a computer enthusiast.

Actually, I really like the screen size and the keys layout. Not sure what I would do to improve the keys anyway since HP has the uneviable task of cramming sooo many functions onto a limited number of buttons. Considering that, I think they did an absolute stand-out job.

That said, while I like the screen size, upping the screen resolution somewhat would give a really nice smooth looking image. But if this is done, then that means we'll need more CPU power and a bigger battery to match just to get the same amount of battery life and performance, so on that I'm kind of torn. I suppose if I had to decide, I'd just leave the screen resolution where it is.

There is one thing I will want above all else though for sure, and that is much more descriptive errors. This is my one large pet peeve with the HP Prime in general. Much of the time, you have no idea what you did wrong because the calculator simply just won't tell you or even let you know where the problem started in the equation. I mean, I can work around it for sure, but it's just frustrating.

Besides that, not sure if I just missed it, but more CAS support for doing operations on angles would be nice. Also, graphing can sometimes not be all that intuitive. Specifically, when tracing along a line and reaching a point of interest, the cursor won't just snap to that point at all, which is a little frustrating. I think there's a few other issues with graphing, but then again, I just may not know how to work with it properly.

Ohhhh, and support for working with chemical equations would be amazing. I think this is the only STEM field where the HP Prime really can't do anything with. Or at least out of the box. So yes, native support for that would be great. And finally, support for much more languages. The HPPPL is very nice considering, but opening up the Prime to new languages would allow much much easier porting of existing programs to the calculator. These two new features would turn the HP Prime into a device that can do serious work for every single STEM field. And if that isn't a new and huge selling point right there, I don't know what is. The HP Prime can already do so damn much as it stands.

[compsystems]

HP-PRIME 2X.

a: We need the full Xcas engine, this way many current issues would be solved, and I think in current hardware version xcas can be loaded regardless of current "operating system" or better regardless of HOME numeric mode.

b: full microPython

c: And the non-embedded version (PC tablets, cell phones) a full screen version like the CASIO classpad does

d: a port to connect peripherals
e: speaker
f: a I/O terminal https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-15332.html
g: troubleshoot history view (CAS) problems. for data types that have always been since the start of the first firmware look at the following discussion
https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-14604.html

[harryp]

I hate to rain on the parade but I'm not sure there will be another dedicated physical calculator. To put everything on there, you would end up with something like the TI92, something at least tablet size. I'd love an enhanced Prime although I'm happy with the Prime that is out there, I still think it's a tour de force of design. HP is a company, in business for profit, so they have to sell what there's a market for. It seems TI locked up the school market here. I'm aware of some of the shortcomings of the Prime but every engineered device has to make compromises. So, I don't know. Perhaps a return to the 41 with SD card modules with some of the advanced or arcane stuff that some of you guys desire? I don't know.

[Solver]

(04-06-2020 08:15 PM)harryp Wrote:  I hate to rain on the parade but I'm not sure there will be another dedicated physical calculator. To put everything on there, you would end up with something like the TI92, something at least tablet size. I'd love an enhanced Prime although I'm happy with the Prime that is out there, I still think it's a tour de force of design. HP is a company, in business for profit, so they have to sell what there's a market for. It seems TI locked up the school market here. I'm aware of some of the shortcomings of the Prime but every engineered device has to make compromises. So, I don't know. Perhaps a return to the 41 with SD card modules with some of the advanced or arcane stuff that some of you guys desire? I don't know.

At the moment, I think you're pretty correct. We won't see another Prime edition for a while, especially since the G2 is still kinda recent. That said, as the electronic components become more powerful, more efficient, and cheaper to make, there should be a great opportunity for another Prime edition. As I said before, making the Prime a one-stop-shop for all STEM fields would be really hard for ANYONE to ignore. Just because TI has a contract doesn't necessarily mean that 1. Students can only have a TI calc and 2. Students can't still buy an HP Prime alongside the TI anyway. And I don't think HP would have made the G2 and continued to support it even now if the Prime wasn't selling well or at least adequately.

Now here's the thing. It'll take some time for HP to build up their reputation in this market. I honestly think the sole reason HP Primes aren't getting sold more is simply because a lot of people don't even know they exist or that they're actually relatively affordable and an incredibly superior alternative to TI's calculators. TI just simply has a ton of brand recognition. That's why HP needs to play the long game here. I'm already hearing about the Prime in numerous places, even if it's not all that common. If HP just continues their upward trend, I'm sure they can unseat TI, but it will take some time for sure simply because they have to start getting their name out.

[Dands]

(04-06-2020 04:58 PM)Solver Wrote:  Besides that, not sure if I just missed it, but more CAS support for doing operations on angles would be nice.

Totally agree. I have a thread here on how the CAS could help us power engineers with better phasor notation handling. Thanks for your reply!

[toml_12953]

(04-06-2020 02:42 PM)Dands Wrote:  IF HP was to release a totally new model, what would you like to see?

I'd love to see a completely redesigned system, new keyboard layout, better connectivity, bigger screen and new apps.

Let's discuss and maybe give them some ideas!

I'd like a printer interface, some additions to HPPL: user-defined record definitions, passing parameters by reference as well as by value, optional parameters to functions, no predefined variable names (like A - Z) let us decide what variables we want to use. Sound (or even just a beeper) would be nice. A full version of Python to replace HPPL could bring in a whole new bunch of users. Also, I'd like to see two models: One with CAS and one without. Too often interactions with CAS interfere with my usage. I never use CAS so I'd go for the non-CAS version. TI is doing quite well selling both the CAS and non-CAS versions of Nspire. The CAS on Nspire isn't as intrusive as it it on Prime either. If you don't use it, you won't know it's there.

[Dands]

Would you guys trade the mechanical keys for a huge cellphone-like calculator?

[John Keith]

(04-06-2020 08:53 PM)Dands Wrote:  Would you guys trade the mechanical keys for a huge cellphone-like calculator?

Well, no, because that is exactly what the Prime app on a cell phone is! IMHO the main thing that differentiates a physical calculator from a cell phone is a mechanical keyboard. Haptic feedback is nice as far as it goes but not a complete substitute for mechanical keys.

On the subject of new features, real RPL (or New RPL) would be my first request, and ideally replacing PPL in its entirety with Python. Mathematically I would like to see the addition of Lambert W, LogGamma and hypergeometric functions to name a few...

[grsbanks]

(04-06-2020 08:53 PM)Dands Wrote:  Would you guys trade the mechanical keys for a huge cellphone-like calculator?

Never in a million years.

The physical keyboard is the very reason why calculators still exist.

[Jenab6]

I want an HP Prime II that has a much greater diversity of function types to model data with.

To see the types that the HP Prime II has already, choose the "Statistics 2Var" app, press [symb] button, and then click on the drop-down menu for "Type 1". You'll see:

Linear
Logarithmic
Exponential
Power
Exponent
Inverse
Logistic
Quadratic
Cubic
Quartic
Trigonometric
Median-Median
User Defined

Now, you'd think that the "user defined" option would take care of everything, but it doesn't. For example, the "Logistical" option gives this function type:

y = L / { 1 + A*e^(-Bx) }

But there are other logistical forms that offer curvefitting solutions at least as good (often better) than the standard one shown above. One of those other forms is:

y = A - B / { 1 + (x/C)^D }

If you try typing the stuff on the right of the equals into the "user defined" option's definition box, the HP Prime II will NOT solve for the least-squares solution for the coefficients, and it will NOT graph any curve with the data when you press the [Plot] button.

As things are, the HP Prime II has a rudimentary set of curve-fitting function types, and I'd very much appreciate it if the types could be greatly expanded. For ideas, you might browse over to ZunZunSite or https://mycurvefit.com or MathWorks. There are lots of websites that do what the HP Prime II ought to do for users who have data that needs to have curves fit to them.

While you're at it, think about putting in a Fast Fourier Transform function, too.

[BruceH]

I'd quite like to see a way of defining custom alternate number formats.

For example we've previously seen in this forum requests for feet-inch-fraction-of-an-inch input and for degrees+decimal minutes. And there are many others: pounds-shillings-pence; stones+pounds+ounces; miles+furlongs; miles+chains etc etc - all the old non-metric measurements.

Given that there are so many of them (and that many are obscure) it would be nice to have a generic way of defining them rather than have built-ins for every one.

Perhaps an extra menu off the Vars key could bring up the list and they appear as a function e.g define FIF for feet-inch-fraction and see FIF(5,4,3) in an equation. But the difference being that it doesn't get turned into a fraction but remains in that format in the output.

So FIF(1,8,3/10) + FIF(3,6,5/10) = FIF(5,2,8/10) or FIF(5,2,4/5) depending on a flag setting and the flag is defined with the definition.

The definition itself could be created in a specialised app that presents a list of the convert-to and convert-from functions that you create plus exported variables appear as flags that can be set by the user.

The a+b/c key could double-up and be used to swap a value's display form from decimal to alternate (clearly there would need to be some hidden identifier behind the scenes that links the decimal value to the required custom format).

Extra points if the mechanism allows indicators like 1'6+3/16" to indicate feet and inches.

[StephenG1CMZ]

For the real calculator:

It would have been nice to have had VGA resolution on the original calculator - this would have made the periodic table clearer. But implementing that now is not so useful when compared to phone resolutions. Better would be some sort of Hdmi port (or wifi/USB?) enabling a high resolution display. And a mechanism to keep the screen undimmed.

Sound output would be nice - a simple beep when results are ready.

A full micropython implementation (or even Python).

But alternatively, an emulated Prime calculator running on a Raspberry Pi - immediately giving full Python, C, Mathematica and other languages, and Hdmi ports, packaged with a calculator-sized screen and battery.

And a qwerty keyboard.

[toml_12953]

(04-06-2020 08:53 PM)Dands Wrote:  Would you guys trade the mechanical keys for a huge cellphone-like calculator?

NO! If there are no mechanical keys, you might as well run it on a smartphone. The feel of the keys can never be replaced for me. Even haptic feedback doesn't do it for me.

[toml_12953]

(04-06-2020 11:20 PM)StephenG1CMZ Wrote:  For the real calculator:

It would have been nice to have had VGA resolution on the original calculator - this would have made the periodic table clearer. But implementing that now is not so useful when compared to phone resolutions. Better would be some sort of Hdmi port (or wifi/USB?) enabling a high resolution display. And a mechanism to keep the screen undimmed.

VGA is 640x480 with 16 colors or 320x200 with 256 colors. Resolutions higher than those are SVGA.

[Eddie W. Shore]

In addition to all the great ideas listed above:
Base conversions to any base (at least 2-36)
Differential Equation Plotter
An easier way to manipulate CAS objects in programming - more uniform programming language
The ARC function to use Cartesian radius instead of pixel

[Jonath_an]

(04-06-2020 02:42 PM)Dands Wrote:  IF HP was to release a totally new model, what would you like to see?

I'd love to see a completely redesigned system, new keyboard layout, better connectivity, bigger screen and new apps.

Let's discuss and maybe give them some ideas!

Hm, I think, the usage of the keys are not really funny for those who use it more often, esp. for programmers. The main problem I see is the usage of several functions at a key. It's steadily necessary to switch (alpha keys/caps/nocaps/other functions on same key) that makes programming fizzling, correcting input must be done often. So adding of switch keys for directly changing input would be easier to handle.
Another thing at same point: using a pc keyboard via usb (a hub with extern power would be necessary) would be really nice.

Another idea: any kind of a buzzer or sound output.

[Dands]

Maybe another thing to consider is to not have Home and CAS separately. Maybe it would be simpler to just combine both in just one "calculator". This would make things easier to the end user.

[Solver]

(04-07-2020 03:20 AM)Dands Wrote:  Maybe another thing to consider is to not have Home and CAS separately. Maybe it would be simpler to just combine both in just one "calculator". This would make things easier to the end user.

I think the only reason they're separated is due to testing concerns. I can't think of any reason to use Home over CAS otherwise.

[Tyann]

(04-06-2020 02:42 PM)Dands Wrote:  IF HP was to release a totally new model, what would you like to see?

I'd love to see a completely redesigned system, new keyboard layout, better connectivity, bigger screen, new apps and most importantly: better phasor notation (polar) capabilities in CAS.

Let's discuss and maybe give them some ideas!

Bonjour

Pour moi qui utilise la Hp Prime pour mes loisirs, notamment la programmation.
Une résolution supérieure (640*480) avec un écran un peu plus grand.
Un dispositif sonore couplé à des alarmes avec lancement de programme comme sur Hp 50g.
Une ouverture à la programmation native.
Une extension de PPL : adresses des variables, peek et poke, paramètres facultatif, par valeur
ou par référence.
Repliage des fonctions/sous programmes et options de recherche/remplacer dans l'éditeur de programmes.
La possibilité de faires petites graphiques dans les notes et d'afficher celles-ci par programme.
Bref l'idéale serai que Hp sorte en parallèle au modèle actuel, un modèle ouvert non destiné au système étudiant dépourvu de mode examen .

Hello

For me who uses the Hp Prime for my hobbies, especially programming.
A higher resolution (640*480) with a slightly larger screen.
A sound device coupled with alarms with program launch as on Hp 50g.
An opening to native programming.
An extension of PPL: addresses of variables, peek and poke, optional parameters, by value or by reference.
Folding functions/sub-programs and search/replace options in the program editor.
Possibility to make small graphics in the notes and to display them by program.
In short, the ideal would be for Hp to come out in parallel to the current model, an open model not intended for the student system without an exam mode.